# Why Don't We Melt Snow? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 4, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161 "2011-02-04T16:05:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/81 "2017-09-17T14:20:10Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Personally, if I were going to such trouble to avoid shoveling snow, I would build a roof over the driveway. Maybe we should do that for all roads. Snow would drift in from the sides, so you would have to close those in, too. Essentially, you would need to build aboveground tunnels. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/82 "2017-09-17T14:20:38Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > My idea, should I ever build a house of my own, is to dig a two-foot-deep pit where the driveway will be, line the bottom with gravel for good drainage, put in some short posts, then build the driveway out of the same sort of metal grating that’s used for the road surface of drawbridges. In the winter, the snow will fall through the grating. If it doesn’t melt until spring, who cares? As long as I don’t get more than two feet of buildup, I’m fine. If you want a snow- and ice-free driveway, you can run radiant heat tubing (perhaps filled with antifreeze) under it. This is easier if you use the same sort of heating for the house. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/83 "2017-09-17T15:19:22Z")
In Toronto where a most high rise apartments have a ramp to underground parking, the ramps are cleared of snow and ice with heaters embedded in the concrete… for drainage they have the telltale fish bone pattern of groves directing the water down the middle to a drain. Of course the cost is spread over a hundred or more apartments, and there needs to be some way to turn the heat on when snow is forecast. Melting as it falls is more useful and safer than waiting. Draining to the heated Center prevents building a dam of ice along the edges. Not sure the optimal configuration for a driveway but fortunately few are perfectly flat. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/84 "2017-09-17T15:53:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s scary how many people can’t do the math. It’s even scarier the number of people who don’t even seem to realize that the math can be done. Innumeracy is frankly as great a problem as illiteracy, but much more well hidden. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/85 "2017-09-17T16:19:17Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Innumeracy is frankly as great a problem as illiteracy, but much more well hidden. We think there’s a problem, but we haven’t the faintest idea how to quantify it. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/86 "2017-09-17T16:20:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s scary how many people can’t do the math. It’s even scarier the number of people who don’t even seem to realize that the math can be done. > [@aceplace57](#): > > The snow plow’s engine heats water that circulates through the radiator. There’s also the heat from the exhaust pipe. > > That’s two heat sources generated automatically during any routine plowing operation. I’m sure a third source of heat would still be needed. Perhaps a propane burner heating a tank of water? The three sources combined is a lot of heat energy. > > A bit of engineering could, perhaps melt some of that snow instead of just pushing it into a huge pile. > > I’m not suggesting a specific design. But there are heat sources that could potentially be used. I’m sure a third source of heat would be needed and that would require fuel. > > That doesn’t address what to do with the water or how to dry the road to prevent icing. > > I’m just suggesting possibilities in the spirit of the thread’s original post. Just two posts later? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/87 "2017-09-17T17:20:52Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Just two posts later? Yeah, and not an uncommon event either. Depressing, isn’t it? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/88 "2017-09-17T17:23:38Z")
Snow is a surprisingly good insulator. Heck, look at how warm it can get in an igloo. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/89 "2017-09-17T17:37:05Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Snow is a surprisingly good insulator. Heck, look at how warm it can get in an igloo. That’s the air trapped in the snow, though, so I don’t know how significant a factor that is for deliberate melting? The fundamental issue is the large specific heat capacity and latent heat of fusion for water. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/90 "2017-09-17T18:18:08Z")
There’s an obvious soliution. Go to your local nuclear power plant and get some spent fuel rods. They always have a bunch that they’d like to get rid of. Bury them under road. You could break them up and bury a piece ever few meters to extend them. Voila! Two problems solved! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/91 "2017-09-17T18:24:07Z")
> [@TheUsual](#): > > Revisiting an old thread because this general topic is on my mind. The problem I have with most of the responses is that they ignore the fuel that is already used to power the snow plows and the sand trucks. If you are replacing those vehicles, not adding to those vehicles, then the fuel costs should not be higher. But I think the move it to mimic those poop sucking devices used in Paris. Instead of melting the snow per the OP, or pushing it to the side (as currently happens with plows), build a truck that has a large tank the size of the salt holders or slightly larger. The truck would suck up the snow, melt it in the tank and then take the water to a location to dump it. The reason to do this is to reduce the snow mountains during heavy storms and cut down on the ice when the snow melts and freezes. Again, I’m not talking about adding an extra fuel cost; rather, the goal is to shift fuel costs into snow removal rather than simply pushing snow to curbs or surrounding cars. What you have proposed is Toronto’s MetroMelt, which has been used by Toronto and Montreal for over forty years. As moves down the street, snow dumped into it’s tank is melted and drains down the storm sewers. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/92 "2017-09-17T19:45:34Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > What you have proposed is Toronto’s MetroMelt, which has been used by Toronto and Montreal for over forty years. As moves down the street, snow dumped into it’s tank is melted and drains down the storm sewers. …by using an enormous amount of fuel. Though [these specs](http://trecansnowmelter.com/60pd.htm) indicate better than 100% efficiency; at a fuel consumption rate of 86 gallons diesel fuel per hour, it should only be able to melt 35 tons of snow per hour, but it claims 60. It does say its tank must be filled water first, so I can only assume that it produces slush rather than completely melted snow. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/93 "2017-09-18T00:06:32Z")
[From 1960: Esso’s vision of the future of snow removal. Count the number of fuel tankers attached to the snow-melter.](https://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2014/02/19bftbv777c87jpg.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/94 "2017-09-18T00:09:54Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > …Count the number of fuel tankers attached to the snow-melter. To their credit, at least they could do math. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/95 "2017-09-18T00:14:32Z")
Diesel or gas are nowhere near as cost efficient at removing snow as solar as plowing and waiting for spring. It the cost of transporting to dumps that gets weighed against melting machines. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/96 "2017-09-19T01:26:38Z")
Back during the blizzards of '93 and '96 Philadelphia resorted to dumping snow off the bridges into the river. > **[Remembering the Blizzards of 1993 and 1996](https://www.phillymag.com/news/2017/03/13/philadelphia-blizzards-1993-1996/)** > > With serious snow on the way, a look back at two massive blizzards in the city’s history. [![](https://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2003/02/20/cc54e662-a642-11e2-a3f0-029118418759/thumbnail/620x350/42ff5904d024bed6b94a324614b72c8b/image541322x.jpg) ](https://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2003/02/20/cc54e662-a642-11e2-a3f0-029118418759/thumbnail/620x350/42ff5904d024bed6b94a324614b72c8b/image541322x.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161/97 "2017-09-19T03:16:02Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > [From 1960: Esso’s vision of the future of snow removal. Count the number of fuel tankers attached to the snow-melter.](https://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2014/02/19bftbv777c87jpg.jpg) As I’m regrettably subscribed to this zombie, I’ll just say: Ah, a 1960’s Style Melt Ray! sorry [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-melt-snow/570161.md?page=4)