# Why don't women go for nice guys? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 28, 2002, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415 "2002-11-28T23:30:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![henryhick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@henryhick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/henryhick)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/1 "2002-11-28T23:30:01Z")
In my teens I was difficult and aggressive, and I was often pursued by girls/women who apparently found it attractive. In return, I was consistently neglectful and disrespectful to them. Now I’m a much more balanced person, but evidently much less attractive to women. I’ve even been dismissively called a SNAG (Sensitive New Age Guy?) by a girl I would have easily seduced in the old days. My question then: why do women do it? And does this mean that we’re condemned to endless neglectful and disrespectful behaviour towards women from young men? ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/2 "2002-11-28T23:35:26Z")
pop on over the the thread “what do women want?” in the BBQ pit. you’ll see what a train wreck this kind of thing turns into. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/3 "2002-11-29T00:03:04Z")
I think the general conclusion that is reached every single time this subject comes up is that a lot of self-proclaimed “nice” guys are not nice, but whiny and self-pitying, which is not appealing. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/4 "2002-11-29T00:23:07Z")
Okay, someone _really_ needs to take down the link to this board from [niceguys.com](http://niceguys.com)… ---
**Author:** ![plain\_jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@plain\_jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plain_jane)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/5 "2002-11-29T03:49:17Z")
Henry, it depends more on what kind of women you’re trying to get together with. Emotionally unhealthy people will not be attracted to someone balanced, and emotionally healthy women will not find jerks attractive. I used to lack self esteem and I did end up with jerks. Now that I have reached a better place emotionally, those types turn me off completely. I also second what Elfkin said. Many self-proclaimed “good guys” are whiney and not at all emotionally stable. I don’t know what’s worse. Arrogance and aloofness (the jerk) or desparate smothering (the “nice” guy). ---
**Author:** ![henryhick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@henryhick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/henryhick)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/6 "2002-11-29T03:51:53Z")
Aaaaggh You’ve nuked my nice guy topic with your replies. I fully agree there’s nothing more annoying (and unattractive) than a self pitying whiner. I was just curious to see if I could stimulate some debate, since I couldn’t find anything similar on the boards. Is this thread destined to be left desperate and dateless on a bar stool in the corner? ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/7 "2002-11-29T04:20:44Z")
You could always say “why are women so stupid and ignorant?” or similiarly insult us somehow. That usually is what makes these type of threads explode. ---
**Author:** ![raz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@raz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raz)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/8 "2002-11-29T04:30:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Why don’t women go for nice guys? Some do…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![fizgig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f04885/32.png) [@fizgig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fizgig)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/9 "2002-11-29T04:34:51Z")
I think sometimes guys confuse being nice with being a doormat. I expect to earn a man’s expect and admiration, just as he should earn mine. There’s got to be a balance somewhere in a healthy relationship. If a guy’s TOO nice, I figure he’s either desperate, or just telling me what I want to hear. Also, it can be smothering. I’ve dated Nice Guys who were truly nice guys. Though I’m still friends with them, something that turned me off to them as boyfriends was that they were always inside the boundaries and playing exactly by the book. Sponteneity is a good thing, and I missed it in those relationships. I didn’t feel I could let my hair down because they never did, even if it’s just staying out too late and having one beer too many. I think it’s more satisfying to win the respect of someone who doesn’t necessarily respect all the rules, if that makes any sense. ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/10 "2002-11-29T05:32:45Z")
- - - “Bank-Shot”: If you want a girl, try going for her best friend. -The best friend must be in a stable relationship already, preferrably with somebody very different than you (-to ensure that the friend will never fall for you) else everything becomes a mess. Then you pester your target for info on the best friend, make a few cheap/cliche semi-romantic gestures, and then lament to your target about how “there’s no girls left that are romantic anymore”. - If the target offers to spend any time with you (even just hangin’ as buddies), then ignore her romantically/sexually, but keep spending time with her and complaining. If she keeps hanging out with you and doesn’t date other guys, sooner or later you’ll get the “where our relationship is headed” speech. She _must_ think that this was her idea, else it won’t work. - And _don’t_ make any of the same/similar gestures towards her. If ignoring her got you this far, don’t screw it up now by being a considerate human being. !!! - Never admit you have even heard of the bank-shot, if asked. And you must _never, ever_ tell her how this all really started, even in your most angry moment. If she thinks she’s been duped into it, she’s history. ~ ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/11 "2002-11-29T05:52:43Z")
Quite simply, there are no simple answers. There are “nice guys” who are real doormats. Women don’t normally go for these types. Then there are genuine nice guys, and unfortunately, sometimes women STILL don’t go for them. The reasons vary. Sometimes, it’s because they’re just not thrilling, or maybe they don’t have the right combination of good looks and skill. At times, racial and cultural issues come into play. Of course, sometimes women DO go for the genuine nice guys. I have several buddies who are genuinely nice, and happily married. To further complicate matters, virtually ALL men consider themselves to be nice guys. That’s why you’ll often have guys who say “I’m a nice guy, and women love me!”, even though their actions don’t match their words. In other words, don’t believe the cliche that womeon don’t like nice guys. By the same token though, don’t believe the cliched reply that “Self-described ‘nice guys’ are just doormats!” either. Contrary to what many will say, it’s not that simple. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/12 "2002-11-29T06:02:42Z")
Excuse me, **irishgirl** , but I hardly think the other thread turned into a “trainwreck”. **henryhick** , nobody knows why people want what they do. Everybody in the world has an anecdote (or several) exactly like yours that suggest that women dig bad men, but it’s all subjective. It’s up to a sociological study to determine whether the numbers bear the theory out, but look around you, what do you see? Mature, healthy, stable people are in mature, healthy, stable relationships, and unfortunately, the converse is also true. But if you’re frustrated with what seems like irrational behavior, that’s cool, God knows I understand that. My sister thinks Eminem is hot. You can have no idea how much that bugs me, or worries me. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/13 "2002-11-29T06:09:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by henryhick \* > I was just curious to see if I could stimulate some debate, since I couldn’t find anything similar on the boards. You are aware that, as a member of the SDMB, you are allowed to use the search engine, yes? I think you’ll find a _few_ relevant threads:) In fact, being as it is past 1 AM (EST, at least), right now would be a fine time to do so:) And finally … aside from the “some do:)” comment I am so wont to make, let me rehash something that was said in another thread in, IIRC, the pit. Being nice can sometimes be confused with, or coupled with, being boring. Very, very, very boring. And as wonderful as nice is, boring is … well, _res ipsa loquitur_🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/14 "2002-11-29T06:16:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\*Being nice can sometimes be confused with, or coupled with, being boring. Very, very, very boring. And as wonderful as nice is, boring is … well, _res ipsa loquitur_🙂 \*\* That ain’t cool, **iampunha**. What did **Res** ever do to you? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/15 "2002-11-29T10:53:36Z")
DougC, I think we used to date. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/16 "2002-11-29T11:12:28Z")
What’s this business about females not liking nice guys? Men, if a woman doesn’t like you, it’s probably not b/c you’re not nice. Maybe you’re too shy or a doormat. For some crazy reason people tend to mistake these things for kindness. Or maybe you’re just too bitter about women not liking you? That’s a major turn off, btw. And let us not forget the possibility that she just plain doesn’t find you attractive. Could be your looks, could be your personality. A guy can be perfectly nice, but the two people just don’t do it for each other. It really chaps my hide is when someone is flawed on various levels - but just so happens to be nice - and assumes that’s the reason the lady doesn’t like him. Could be a ton of other things… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MSU\_1978](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@MSU\_1978](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MSU_1978)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/17 "2002-11-29T12:15:30Z")
My great theory on this is that it is a remnant of prehistoric times. Women stayed at home and nursed the children, the men went out and hunted gazelles. To ensure the survival of the species, women naturally chose mates that were more apt to bring home the bacon. Any time spent playing with the kids or drawing on the cave walls was time that could not be spent gathering food, so sensitivity became a non-desireable trait in terms of survival of the species. Be patient, Henry. There is a lid for every pot. It will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/18 "2002-11-29T14:19:20Z")
No matter what ‘type’ you are, there’s gonna be somebody that’s in to it. But certainly not everybody. Your job is to find the right somebody. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/19 "2002-11-29T15:18:09Z")
So apparently the reason why the world is filled with mean, vengeful guys is that they’re the ones who got to mate with all the dumb-ass females out there, and reproduce their own kind… ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415/20 "2002-11-29T15:29:20Z")
henryhick, your question gets answered a lot. I would like to know just how you would define how a ‘nice guy’ behaves? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-go-for-nice-guys/139415.md?page=2)