# Why don't women like "nice guys" (rant-ish but real question) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 8, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-like-nice-guys-rant-ish-but-real-question/289081 "2005-02-08T23:39:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2005, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-like-nice-guys-rant-ish-but-real-question/289081/121 "2005-02-12T03:13:44Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > Yeah, so I’m posting drunk, alone and alienated on a Friday night. Wanna make something of it? Yeah, that’s what the Dope’s here for! I should also say, though, that I’ve never once met a guy who consistently couldn’t get any because he was nice. That is, I’ve never known a guy who was reasonable-looking, fun, interesting, and so forth, and genuinely nice, who couldn’t get a date. In fact, I’ve known a lot of nice guys who’ve had women chasing after them - not just because they were nice, but also because of their other personality qualities. In the business world, there’s a term called “hygiene factors” or something like that. It’s stuff like lighting for an office - it’s not sufficient, in itself, to promise success, but you’ll be an absolute failure without it. Being nice is a hygiene factor (also, don’t neglect personal hygiene. But I digress.) Aside from the women who are chasing serial killers, being nice is an inherent aspect of being successful - but it’s not enough. You also have to have other good qualities to bring to the table. If you’re nice, but you’re also boring, or socially inept, or don’t shower, you’re not going to succeed. Being nice is a non-issue - treating your date decently is not optional. Or, as Chris Rock put it, “What do you want? A cookie?” Don’t take pride in being nice, because it’s the absolute minimal standard for conduct in society. You better also have something else to entice a potential SO with. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-like-nice-guys-rant-ish-but-real-question/289081/122 "2005-02-14T02:03:19Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > In the business world, there’s a term called “hygiene factors” or something like that. It’s stuff like lighting for an office - it’s not sufficient, in itself, to promise success, but you’ll be an absolute failure without it. Being nice is a hygiene factor (also, don’t neglect personal hygiene. But I digress.) Aside from the women who are chasing serial killers, being nice is an inherent aspect of being successful - but it’s not enough. You also have to have other good qualities to bring to the table. If you’re nice, but you’re also boring, or socially inept, or don’t shower, you’re not going to succeed. Being nice is a non-issue - treating your date decently is not optional. Or, as Chris Rock put it, “What do you want? A cookie?” Don’t take pride in being nice, because it’s the absolute minimal standard for conduct in society. You better also have something else to entice a potential SO with. That’s a great concept. Anyone else feel like they should be taking notes? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-like-nice-guys-rant-ish-but-real-question/289081/123 "2005-02-14T02:57:12Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > :mad: **Can we PLEASE stop reinforcing this idiotic received wisdom that the way to any woman’s heart or other vital organs is to act like a shit?** > > Honestly, now. Is ANYBODY, male or female, alpha or epsilon, going to learn anything positive from having that drummed into them over and over again? > > You wanna moan, go to the Pit. (I did. Made a **MAAYUN** o’ me.) This is IMHO, so yes, opinions are OK, but I definitely sense a hang-dog, whadya-gonna-do resignation out there. Not attractive, fellas. You’re spinning your wheels. Do it too long and you’ll either dig yourselves in deeper or run out of gas entirely. > > The way folks keep coming back to the Nice Guy question, maybe it oughta be in Great Debates next time… :dubious: I have to agree with Jthunder. I know well-educated women from good families that simply fall for the wrong guy. We’re talking about real, obvious flaws that should be apparent (rough handling, yelling, jealousy). These are not weak women but smart, good natured and ostensibly self-confident. I don’t pretend to understand it but then I don’t understand stuff like fraternities. I view hazing as detrimental in every respect and find it hard to believe that someone smart enough for college would subject themselves to it. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-like-nice-guys-rant-ish-but-real-question/289081/124 "2005-02-15T02:08:49Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > Might it help to be a _partial_ jerk? > > Women of the Dope, what jerk-like qualities in a man really get your motor purring? Be specific. Here’s one: if you have a dissenting view to something I’ve said, say so. Don’t agree to make me happy, start a friendly debate. Believe it or not, we don’t always expect you to smile and agree with us, and it often makes you more interesting when you don’t, as long as you’re civil. Arguments can be stimulating. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-women-like-nice-guys-rant-ish-but-real-question/289081.md?page=6)