# Why don't you idiots calm down? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 27, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208 "2004-04-27T02:38:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/61 "2004-04-27T16:42:43Z")
> [@](#): > > **GingerOfTheNorth** -It would appear to me that vanilla has had an abortion, but doesn’t think anyone else should ever be able to. This site is obviously biased but it proves an interesting read: [http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/anti-tales.html](http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/anti-tales.html) [hijack] > [@](#): > > **EddyTeddyFreddy** -Well, I promise not to consider all Christians to be closeminded, hate-filled clench-asses if you promise not to consider all pro-choice people to advocate abortion as birth control for brainless sluts. But haven’t you admitted to being a DQ on the boards, which makes you, by your own admission, a ragingly anal clench-ass by definition? [/hijack] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/62 "2004-04-27T16:49:26Z")
I’m not judgmental or cruelly dismissive. That might be said of Cybil Shepherd. Christians must speak the truth about morals; they are not all relative, as is expected nowadays. I was tired of trying to be popular here. To be so, you must compromise your christian beliefs. If non believers like you and think you are accepting, you are not speaking the truth of the gospel. To be a popular christian here, you must compromise and say sin is okay! as long as you feel good about it. I’m sick of doing that as others here do. There is right and wrong. people don’t realize that. “All christians must accept whatever we think is okay” Sorry, wrong. I’m more concerned about God being accepting of me than dopers. And I see a bit of vitrol from supposed christians in this thread and unbeleivers too. Everyone will not be saved; that is there fault, they were given chances. Yes, i had an abortion. It was wrong. I learned my lesson. That is why I will not have sex til I am married again. No, I’m not uptight, I don’t get turned on unless I am in love with a specific man, which hasn’t happened for 11 years. I wish there was 100% accurate birth control. Unfortunately, there isn’t. If one doesn’t want to be pregnant(unmarried) they should not have sex. If married and not wanting pregnancy, theres tubal libation(did I spell that right, I’m checking here). Those are my opinions, and I am not ignorant nor uncompassionate. This is not a christian friendly board; sorry. Its a accept todays morals or youre an ignorant bigot board. No thanks. I enjoy my christian message board, this place is great for geneeral questions when you need something answered, but its only for people who are tolerant of everything except Christianity. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/63 "2004-04-27T16:51:11Z")
This isn’t a hard-right swerve, I’m still a leftist. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/64 "2004-04-27T16:53:35Z")
> [@GingerOfTheNorth](#): > > It would appear to me that vanilla has had an abortion, but doesn’t think anyone else should ever be able to. Ah, but you see, **Vanilla** ’s case was a special circumstance. An exception to the rule. Unfortunately, what most pro-lifers don’t get is that _every_ woman that gets an abortion does so under special circumstances. (Or almost every woman – of course there are some exceptions.) Pro-lifers often paint “abortionists” as evil people that will gleefully kill babies for sport, and of course nothing could be further from the truth. I would bet that almost every woman that has had an abortion did so after careful thought and consideration, and came to the unhappy conclusion that she had no other alternative. She had her own “special circumstances.” This would explain why fully 1/6 of women who get abortions are vociferously anti-abortion. It’s easy to get behind a one-size-fits-all law when you can get a doctor to make an exception “just this once.” ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/65 "2004-04-27T17:00:09Z")
**Vanilla** , you know I love you (or I hope you know that), but sheesh, woman, I really think you’ve derailed. On your last post, I will address only one point: > [@vanilla](#): > > Christians must speak the truth about morals; Since when did Christians become authorities on morals? In my short 42 years, I have yet to see a spike in morality among Christians. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/66 "2004-04-27T17:13:14Z")
Deep sigh. > [@](#): > > \*\* vanilla\*\* - To be a popular christian here, you must compromise and say sin is okay! as long as you feel good about it.\*\* You know, I’ve honestly never felt that way and I’m sorry that you’ve come to this conclusion. I am working towards an understanding of my Christianity which I base almost exclusively on the Gospels and my personal relationship with God- not on how other purported Christians choose to decipher Christ’s message. Too many have been proven wrong. I get the sense that you’ve been “shown the light” by fundamentalists who have driven home the concept that tolerance is somehow sin. I disagree but then I’ve always been big on the old ‘judge not …’ clause. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/67 "2004-04-27T17:15:40Z")
**Vanilla** , just like Greg Louganis at the pool, you’re going off the deep end. And I think the way down is gonna be just as bumpy. ---
**Author:** ![Aries28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Aries28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aries28)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/68 "2004-04-27T17:15:46Z")
Why is it such a big deal to be “popular” around here to you? Heck, I think a lot of people tolerate (some even like me) me and I don’t feel I have compromised my Christian beliefs in order to be at that point. Some Dopers and I disagree on many things but I respect their right to believe how they see fit. It isn’t an agree with everything I say or I’m taking my ball and going home kind of place. I agree this isn’t a Christian friendly board sometimes. That can be rather frustrating…I agree. But primarily it is because a lot of people who claim to be Christians haven’t the slightest idea of what they are talking about. Sometimes these Christians drive more people away from Christ than they ever do to show the good things that He taught. A lot of people here have had run ins with these people and have been turned off from anything to do with religion. I can empathize with them. However, there are some Christians here on this very board that I believe are sincere. I hope I come across as one of them. If those of us who are sincere and try can undo some of the things the others have brought down then that is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/69 "2004-04-27T17:19:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Not if you espouse the attitude of “Oh if I get pregnant, I’ll just have an abortion” while failing to adopt any other method of birth control. > That is tantamount to using abortion as birth control which is a stupendously stupid concept but one I’ve heard expressed by an equally stupendously stupid woman. I agree that it’s stupendously dumb, but I figured it was worth saying something because the argument that _lots of people_ use abortion as birth control seems to be a staple of anti-abortion rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/70 "2004-04-27T17:20:05Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > I enjoy my christian message board, this place is great for geneeral questions when you need something answered, but its only for people who are tolerant of everything except Christianity. 🙂 This is patently false. We are also intolerant of homophobes, racists, and misogynists. So you see, it’s not just Fundie Christians, but any hate group really. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/71 "2004-04-27T17:22:03Z")
us fundies are not hate groups. “Accept us or we call you a bigot!” ---
**Author:** ![Aries28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Aries28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aries28)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/72 "2004-04-27T17:23:40Z")
> [@malkavia](#): > > So you see, it’s not just Fundie Christians, but any hate group really. I’m not picking on you…but just out of curiosity…do you differentiate between Fundie Christians and Christians or do you consider all Christians to be a hate group? Seriously, I’m not being a smartass…I’m really curious. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/73 "2004-04-27T17:28:22Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > us fundies are not hate groups. > > “Accept us or we call you a bigot!” You consider the rest of us to be immoral baby-killers and gleefully note that “we aren’t going to be saved”. I don’t know about everyone else but I don’t call that a message of _love_ … ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/74 "2004-04-27T17:44:45Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > Yes, i had an abortion. It was wrong. > I learned my lesson. I was unaware you could be forgiven for murder (which, I assume is what you consider abortion to be). Now that the deed is done, how to you get back in the good graces? > [@vanilla](#): > > theres tubal libation(did I spell that right, I’m checking here). A “tubal libation” would be one of those beer hats with the plastic hoses going into your mouth. And I don’t for a second believe you checked your spelling on that. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/75 "2004-04-27T17:48:08Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > I’m not judgmental or cruelly dismissive. > > That might be said of Cybil Shepherd. > > Christians must speak the truth about morals; they are not all relative, as is expected nowadays. > > I was tired of trying to be popular here. > To be so, you must compromise your christian beliefs. > If non believers like you and think you are accepting, you are not speaking the truth of the gospel. > To be a popular christian here, you must compromise and say sin is okay! as long as you feel good about it. > I’m sick of doing that as others here do. So, you’re saying that if I believe a Christian is an intolerant boob, then they’re doing their Christian duty? It seems to me that Christ was a pretty accepting and groovy dude. Even though I don’t believe in God anymore, a part of me still hurts when people say things like “if non believiers like you and think you are **accepting** , you are not speaking the truth of the gospel.” I just think that is incredibly sad, for everybody. I think it’s sad that in order to believe in God and His gospel, you have to be **un** accepting. What was that about the Greatest Commandment? Something about loving everybody…Maybe Jesus meant “love everybody who thinks like you. Fuck everybody else.” Who is to tell? > [@vanilla](#): > > There is right and wrong. > people don’t realize that. > “All christians must accept whatever we think is okay” > Sorry, wrong. > I’m more concerned about God being accepting of me than dopers. > > And I see a bit of vitrol from supposed christians in this thread and unbeleivers too. > Everyone will not be saved; that is there fault, they were given chances. This sort of attitude doesn’t make me want to come to Christ. I think to myself “Do I truly want to be counted with people like her?” And the answer is _no_. Do you think that’s what God would want? I know there’s a bit in the Bible about spreading the Good News. What are you spreading? > [@vanilla](#): > > Yes, i had an abortion. It was wrong. > I learned my lesson. > That is why I will not have sex til I am married again. > No, I’m not uptight, I don’t get turned on unless I am in love with a specific man, which hasn’t happened for 11 years. > > I wish there was 100% accurate birth control. > Unfortunately, there isn’t. > If one doesn’t want to be pregnant(unmarried) they should not have sex. > If married and not wanting pregnancy, theres tubal libation(did I spell that right, I’m checking here). **vanilla** , I’m 21. I’ve been married for nearly 3 years. I’m finishing school next year and starting on my MFA. I have a long term plan, and I use various forms of birth control properly. I do not want children, and I’m nearly certain if my birth control failed, I would get an abortion. Can I get my tubes tied? Absolutely. But no doctor would do it right now. Yeah, that’s right. Doctors can refuse to perform that surgery on young women, precisely because they’re _young women_. Furthermore, I wouldn’t be able to afford such a surgery and I don’t have insurance. Finally, it’s a life altering decision that can’t be taken back. It’s not something to be considered lightly. But I guess in your world, everything is black and white. If you don’t have kids, either don’t have sex or permanently alter your body so you can never conceive. Is there any middle ground for you? I enjoy having sex with my husband very much, and I have no plans on stopping. I also cannot have my tubes tied for various reasons. What if my birth control (which I use faithfully) fails? Guess what…it’s not just wild and wicked sluts having abortions. It’s a wide range of women, from teens to mature adults, from single women to engaged women to married women. Women who already have kids. Women who never want kids. Women who used BC. Women who did not, for whatever reason. Women who do not deserve to be punished, or forced to raise a child they do not want, because somewhere along the way, a mistake was made. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/76 "2004-04-27T17:52:36Z")
Congratulations, **Kalhoun** , you just made this entire thread worthwhile. Brilliant. Tubal libation, yipes. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/77 "2004-04-27T18:16:15Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > Christians must speak the truth about morals; they are not all relative, as is expected nowadays. > > I was tired of trying to be popular here. > To be so, you must compromise your christian beliefs. > If non believers like you and think you are accepting, you are not speaking the truth of the gospel. > To be a popular christian here, you must compromise and say sin is okay! as long as you feel good about it. > I’m sick of doing that as others here do. > > I’m more concerned about God being accepting of me than dopers. > > Everyone will not be saved; that is there fault, they were given chances. > > This is not a christian friendly board; sorry. > > I enjoy my christian message board, this place is great for geneeral questions when you need something answered, but its only for people who are tolerant of everything except Christianity. 🙂 —This is very sad. The SDMB is the place where I first found Christian friends, and learned that Christians _can_ be intelligent, discriminating (in a good way), open-minded . . . I thought you were one of them—hell, you _were_ one of them! _Something_ has happened to you in the last day or so, dear, this does not sound like you. ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/78 "2004-04-27T18:24:00Z")
> [@Aries28](#): > > I’m not picking on you…but just out of curiosity…do you differentiate between Fundie Christians and Christians or do you consider all Christians to be a hate group? > > Seriously, I’m not being a smartass…I’m really curious. 🙂 I absolutely differentiate between the two. I’ve known quite a few people who identify themselves as Christians and work to exemplify the life of Jesus. I think these people are absolutely necessary within my community. They are good, strong people who love their God and who share that love with others and provide support for eachother and for others in need. I envy their commitment and would never want to confuse them with the morality policing and outright ignorant sentiments of vanilla and her ilk. Jesus didn’t lead by pointing at others and saying “I too have commited this sin, but it was wrong and I don’t think you should have the option to do the same!” That is, of course, because Jesus wasn’t a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Aries28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Aries28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aries28)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/79 "2004-04-27T18:32:15Z")
> [@malkavia](#): > > I absolutely differentiate between the two. I’ve known quite a few people who identify themselves as Christians and work to exemplify the life of Jesus. I think these people are absolutely necessary within my community. They are good, strong people who love their God and who share that love with others and provide support for eachother and for others in need. I envy their commitment and would never want to confuse them with the morality policing and outright ignorant sentiments of vanilla and her ilk. Jesus didn’t lead by pointing at others and saying “I too have commited this sin, but it was wrong and I don’t think you should have the option to do the same!” > > That is, of course, because Jesus wasn’t a hypocrite. Thanks! I really wasn’t picking on you. I have just seen a lot of people try to lump all Christians in with those of the fundie versions and it bothers me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208/80 "2004-04-27T18:32:28Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > us fundies are not hate groups. > > “Accept us or we call you a bigot!” _tosses vanilla a few more nails_ :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-idiots-calm-down/242208.md?page=5)