# Why don't you support Bernie Sanders? (if you don't) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632 "2019-06-17T02:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/261 "2019-08-22T10:21:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I guess then **no,** you’re not gonna back it up. :rolleyes: Post 239 ---
**Author:** ![Emily\_Litella](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emily_litella/32/3370_2.png) [@Emily\_Litella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emily_Litella)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/262 "2019-08-22T18:20:47Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The thing is, Sanders is never ever ever going to win the primary. Way too many Dems hate his guts. They blame him for 2016, they think he’s a carpetbagger, they think he’s an unreasonable ideologue. So it doesn’t matter how he polls against Trump, that’s never going to happen. I’m sorry, I have to disagree with you. Since he’s in second place in the polls behind Biden I think he’s got a very good chance of winning the primary. A lot of non moderate, non neo-liberal, non corporatists love him. There are a lot of teachers, nurses, and Amazon and Walmart workers who are going to vote for him. Some die hard HRC supporters hate him because they think he took something away from her 2016 campaign, but he supported her after he lost the primary. His policies that were considered too far left in 2016 are now being touted by most of the Dem candidates. He’s got a great record of being consistent in his policies, he doesn’t do flip flops in the changing political wind. The only way I think he could lose is if he does a “like white kids” or a covfefe between now and Iowa. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/263 "2019-08-22T18:32:56Z")
Not that it would make a difference, but if the general election were between two clowns like Sanders and Trump, and there’s nothing important on my local ballot, I might seriously consider not bothering to vote. There would be no point. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/264 "2019-08-22T18:35:09Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Not that it would make a difference, but if the general election were between two clowns like Sanders and Trump, and there’s nothing important on my local ballot, I might seriously consider not bothering to vote. There would be no point. I’m no Sanders fan. But how you can say that, after seeing all the terrible things Trump has done, is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/265 "2019-08-22T18:40:20Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I’m no Sanders fan. But how you can say that, after seeing all the terrible things Trump has done, is beyond me. I live in DC. We have an electoral college. Tell me why my vote matters, when I don’t even have an elected representative in Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/266 "2019-08-22T19:08:42Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I live in DC. We have an electoral college. Tell me why my vote matters, when I don’t even have an elected representative in Congress. I meant to say _voting_ representative. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/267 "2019-08-22T20:07:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Post 239 Oh, wow, Ok if those are your ideas of how “They all have experience that is more in line with the duties of the Oval Office, not to mention having run political races that aren’t in Vermont.” then I cant help you. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/268 "2019-08-22T20:15:40Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I live in DC. We have an electoral college. Tell me why my vote matters, when I don’t even have an elected [voting] representative in Congress. I will concede that your vote won’t have the same clout as if it were cast in, say, Florida or Ohio. But voting is a civic duty, I believe, and your vote would be one more in the aggregate of all those indicating their disgust in Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/269 "2019-08-22T20:42:55Z")
I consider climate change to be perhaps the most important long term issue we need to deal with politically and Sander’s strident anti-nuke position is a disaster on par with Trump’s stupid pro-coal policies, maybe worse because it will be harder to recover. Sanders then doubles down on anti-science by being anti-GMO. If Democrats make me choose between Sanders and Trump I’m voting third party. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/270 "2019-08-22T20:56:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Oh, wow, Ok if those are your ideas of how “They all have experience that is more in line with the duties of the Oval Office, not to mention having run political races that aren’t in Vermont.” then I cant help you. I am not asking for your kind of help. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/271 "2019-08-22T20:59:03Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I consider climate change to be perhaps the most important long term issue we need to deal with politically and Sander’s strident anti-nuke position is a disaster on par with Trump’s stupid pro-coal policies, maybe worse because it will be harder to recover. Sanders then doubles down on anti-science by being anti-GMO. If Democrats make me choose between Sanders and Trump I’m voting third party. The country may go down the tubes because you couldn’t figure out which was the lesser of two evils…but you’ll at least have your moral victory to fall back on. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/272 "2019-08-22T21:00:19Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I will concede that your vote won’t have the same clout as if it were cast in, say, Florida or Ohio. But voting is a civic duty, I believe, and your vote would be one more in the aggregate of all those indicating their disgust in Trump. I generally agree that voting, even when the chips are stacked against you, is the right thing to do. Even voting for compromise candidates is the smart thing to do. But voting for a clown under a system intentionally designed to disenfranchise people living in one city? This isn’t like “my vote doesn’t count because I’m not winning elections,” this is “the system is designed for the express purpose of giving me zero politics power.” ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/273 "2019-08-22T21:01:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The country may go down the tubes because you couldn’t figure out which was the lesser of two evils…but you’ll at least have your moral victory to fall back on. If you vote for a candidate who’s as bad as Trump when it comes to climate change that’s on you, not me. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/274 "2019-08-22T21:08:02Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > If you vote for a candidate who’s as bad as Trump when it comes to climate change that’s on you, not me. No, if you can’t tell the difference between being possibly equally wrong on one front and being wrong on six to seven fronts, that is on _you_. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/275 "2019-08-22T21:13:08Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > If you vote for a candidate who’s as bad as Trump when it comes to climate change that’s on you, not me. Sanders wants to bring coal back??? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/276 "2019-08-22T21:24:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No, if you can’t tell the difference between being possibly equally wrong on one front and being wrong on six to seven fronts, that is on _you_. As I said, climate change is very important to me and Sanders is at least as bad as Trump and possibly worse. I will not vote for a candidate who will make climate change worse than Trump. Most of Trump’s idiocy will be washed away by a term or two of a good presidency but if Sanders manages to shut down a significant number of nuclear power plants (his goal is to shut them all down) then we will be paying for his idiocy for generations. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/277 "2019-08-22T22:24:50Z")
> [@Emily\_Litella](#): > > I’m sorry, I have to disagree with you. Since he’s in second place in the polls behind Biden I think he’s got a very good chance of winning the primary. A lot of non moderate, non neo-liberal, non corporatists love him. He is going to be stuck at the same level of support for the duration, imho. There is just no way a majority is going to pick him. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/278 "2019-08-22T22:32:53Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > He is going to be stuck at the same level of support for the duration, imho. There is just no way a majority is going to pick him. While vastly superior to the current President, he’d be my last choice of the Dems in the race. (well, not really last. Ahead of Williamson and De Blasio.) I think he’s 1) too old, 2) would probably be ineffective in getting stuff done and 3) would have a hard time beating Trump. I don’t hate his policies, and am grateful the party has moved leftward. I’ll give him some credit for that. I’m not mad at him for 2016 and don’t think he cost Clinton the election. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/279 "2019-08-23T00:22:27Z")
I’m sure there’s plenty of people like you that have just weighed the options and he scores lower. But there is a solid chunk of haters too. This board has a decent representation of the moderate Dem voters and I see too many who actively dislike the guy. Looking at [Morning Consult’s second choice numbers](https://morningconsult.com/2020-democratic-primary/), somewhat oddly Biden and Sanders supporters slightly favour the other as their second choice but they aren’t anyone else’s second choice. Don’t think the numbers are big enough to back up my point though. 538 did an article contending Sanders has a high floor-low ceiling of support, I’ll look for it later. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/280 "2019-08-23T08:08:01Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > 538 did an article contending Sanders has a high floor-low ceiling of support, I’ll look for it later. Yes, and even if they didn’t, it’s pretty obvious. My 19-year-old son sends Bernie money monthly that he probably can’t really afford. He is ride or die for Bernie. The people picking him in polls right now are never going to abandon him. But the people _not_ picking him in polls right now are not going to move to him in significant numbers as the field thins. And while most candidates could use winning Iowa and/or New Hampshire as a springboard to get momentum and surge to the front, that won’t work with Bernie. That will just solidify the majority against him. > [@DrDeth](#): > > we gotta stop with the ageism and attacks. It’s not ageism to say that an incredibly important, massively stressful 24/7 job like the presidency is not suitable for an 87-year-old. (And yes, Joe Biden is also too damn old.) My mom was born the same year as Bernie, and there is just no way. > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > I’m talking about the hypothetical polls about him vs. Trump. Biden is consistently the biggest winner against Trump overall, but Sanders is a clear second, and the drop off to third is steep; there are MANY polls in which only those two beat Trump, while all of the others lose to him. > And Sanders has generally come closer to matching Biden’s performance in swing States than in the country as a whole. Cite? “Many” cites, that is? > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Also, Bernie does have experience founding and running a profitable small business before going into politics, so his private sector experience isn’t zero. Wait, what? 😕 > [@XT](#): > > He’s like an old school western European socialist from the 70’s. The funny thing is, I feel certain that if we could give Bernie truth serum, he would not dispute this and in fact would be flattered by the description. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=15)