# Why don't you support Bernie Sanders? (if you don't) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632 "2019-06-17T02:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/741 "2020-02-13T06:44:21Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I’m afraid that’s right (and much as I dislike Bernie, I would vote for him in a nanosecond over the incumbent). If he gets the nomination, we’re going to see many millions of dollars’ worth of GOP and “independent” attack ads about his honeymoon in Soviet Moscow, his early membership in a Trotskyite organization, his praise for the Sandinistas, his past harsh (and sometimes insulting) criticism of the Democratic Party, his calls to drastically reduce US military spending, etc. > > It will not be pretty, and it will probably be (electorally) lethal. If people are so fucking stupid as to vote for stuff that happened 30 years ago and ignore what is happening now, then we get the government we deserve. And it’s not like Trump is going to be all sweetness and light if Bernie is not the nominee. It doesn’t matter who the nominee is, the GOP and “independent” attack ads are going to lie their asses off about whoever it is. Given that, it makes the most sense to vote in the primaries for the candidate who’s policies most match your own. Then Blue no matter who in the general. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/742 "2020-02-13T07:20:30Z")
> [@Fugazi](#): > > If people are so fucking stupid as to vote for stuff that happened 30 years ago and ignore what is happening now, then we get the government we deserve. > … Many people here are still het up over the fact the Biden was fooled by the shrub into voting for the iraq war resolution some 20 years ago, thus “proving” Biden is a “warmonger” so, yeah, **"people are so fucking stupid "**. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/743 "2020-02-13T07:46:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Many people here are still het up over the fact the Biden was fooled by the shrub into voting for the iraq war resolution some 20 years ago, thus “proving” Biden is a “warmonger” so, yeah, **"people are so fucking stupid "**. The innocent civilians we blew to smithereens 20 years ago are still dead. There’s no limit on how long we can judge the politicians who helped make that happen. And whether they helped because they were too dirt fucking stupid to know better or because they were just horny for war isn’t even all that important. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/744 "2020-02-13T13:47:54Z")
They will probably try to find his school teachers to bash Sanders. Lucky for him most or all of them are 6 feet under. One advantage to being 78. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/745 "2020-02-13T14:58:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Matt Yglesias on how Bernie isn’t some extremist no-compromise whacko, but rather a very skilled and experienced politician: [How Bernie Sanders won the Democratic debate - Vox](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/7/21128979/bernie-sanders-won-democratic-debate) I skimmed the article, and the skill and experience Yglesias discusses all show up as accomplishments in _effective messaging_, but not in actual _getting shit done_. And he still doesn’t seem to have any sort of believable theory of how he’s going to get shit done in 2021. This is why I’m still firmly in Warren’s corner, and why there’s no way I’m going to support Bernie for the nomination. There’s all sorts of shit that needs doing, and there’s no reason to believe that President Sanders will be anything less than an unmitigated failure in office. Despite all the problems I have with Biden, I think I’d rather have Biden, who would be more of a mitigated failure IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/746 "2020-02-13T15:01:03Z")
> [@Fugazi](#): > > If people are so fucking stupid as to vote for stuff that happened 30 years ago and ignore what is happening now, then we get the government we deserve. So if some people are that fucking stupid, the rest of us deserve to be stuck with an awful government?? Why on earth would anyone say that? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/747 "2020-02-13T15:06:28Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > If he gets the nomination, we’re going to see many millions of dollars’ worth of GOP and “independent” attack ads about his honeymoon in Soviet Moscow, his early membership in a Trotskyite organization, his praise for the Sandinistas, his past harsh (and sometimes insulting) criticism of the Democratic Party, his calls to drastically reduce US military spending, etc. > > It will not be pretty, and it will probably be (electorally) lethal. My question then becomes-why would Trump’s association with _Putin’s_ Russia NOT also be an attack strategy that could work for the Dems? As in, why did all that email kerfluffle during the 2016 campaign allegedly help sink Hillary, while Trump’s “I grab 'em by the pussy!” comment didn’t wreck Trump’s chances? You seem to be implying that any questionable ideas or associations by the Dems (even if it is ancient history) is automatically damaging to their chances, while Trump can do or say almost any idiotic thing (present tense) which indicates that he is unfit for office, and it won’t move his polling needle down one pixel. Maybe you are right, but that’s a pretty astonishing notion, tbh. > [@dalej42](#): > > People over 50 remember the Cold War. They also don’t tweet, they VOTE. Even if someone is sickened by Trump, they could just stay home with Bernie as the alternative. But they don’t recall Trump’s various recent meetings with Putin. Gotcha. edit: Coke to **Fugazi**. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/748 "2020-02-13T15:07:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Many people here are still het up over the fact the Biden was fooled by the shrub into voting for the iraq war resolution some 20 years ago, thus “proving” Biden is a “warmonger” so, yeah, **"people are so fucking stupid "**. If it was that one vote, it would be one thing. But he was defending our going into Iraq for _years_ after the invasion. People have dug up Biden quote after Biden quote from the next few years defending the war. Also: I remember that period well. I remember that Bush used the argument that we were only giving him a tool to make his threats more credible, so that Saddam would have to prove to us that he’d gotten rid of his WMDs. And Saddam cooperated. He let our inspectors in, let them do their jobs, and they found nothing. But Bush made the decision to go to war anyway. Do you remember the howls of outrage for the Congresspersons he fooled into voting for the AUMF? Do you remember how they stood up and demanded another vote to withdraw that authorization? Neither do I. And Joe Biden was certainly one of the people I don’t remember any howls of outrage from. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/749 "2020-02-13T15:09:24Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > But they don’t recall Trump’s various recent meetings with Putin. Gotcha. Of course there are double standards in politics – and they aren’t just from the extreme ends of the spectrum. To quite a few people in the middle, Trump is opinionated, Hillary is shrill. Or, giving money to farmers are a lifeline for good Americans who hit hard times, giving money to poor people in cities is socialism. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/750 "2020-02-13T17:04:58Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I skimmed the article, and the skill and experience Yglesias discusses all show up as accomplishments in _effective messaging_, but not in actual _getting shit done_. Effective messaging is what’s most important for winning elections. I think your criticism of Bernie is perfectly valid, but it doesn’t make him any less likely to beat Trump, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/751 "2020-02-13T17:52:03Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > You seem to be implying that any questionable ideas or associations by the Dems (even if it is ancient history) is automatically damaging to their chances, while Trump can do or say almost any idiotic thing (present tense) which indicates that he is unfit for office, and it won’t move his polling needle down one pixel. Maybe you are right, but that’s a pretty astonishing notion, tbh. Yes its an astonishing notion, but evidence indicates its also true. At this point its pretty clear that everyone has their mind made up about Trump. Either you already realize that he is an incompetent, corrupt, narcissistic sociopath, or else you believe that all the charges against him are false news and are impervious to new evidence. Negative campaigning is going to be of limited value against Trump because its already baked in. For the Dems on the other hand there is still room to fall. Whether Trump wins or not will depend on how many of those who have a negative opinion of Trump can be convinced that the Democrat candidate is just as bad or even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/752 "2020-02-13T18:09:13Z")
In honor of the approximate one year anniversary of Bernie announcing his candidacy, here are some reactions at the time from the wise and brilliant pundits of the mass media, excerpted from[here.](https://theintercept.com/2020/02/12/bernie-sanders-iowa-new-hampshire/?fbclid=IwAR11gu5o88-iL5jFGqVVU1mN8gzGwTyY9h_zfrdrDPx3WOW2bZDCZ91vbf4) > [@](#): > > The Washington Post’s Henry Olsen called him a “one-hit wonder,” adding: “After a few concerts that attract ever more ‘selective’ audiences, he will likely drop out and retire, his influence consigned to history.” (On Monday night, a whopping 7,500 people turned out for a Sanders rally headlined by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, as well as rock band The Strokes, in Durham, New Hampshire.) > > On Twitter, Olsen’s fellow Post columnist Jennifer Rubin described Sanders as “yesterday’s news” and suggested he would face “stiff competition for youth vote” from Beto O’Rourke. > > Yet another Post columnist, David Von Drehle, wrote how Sanders would find “that his moment is gone, his agenda absorbed by more plausible candidates, his future behind him.” > > Then there was MSNBC host Chris Matthews, who claimed Sen. Elizabeth Warren would “blow out Bernie pretty early on. Bernie will lose his votes to her.” (Warren, for the record, came third in Iowa and fourth in New Hampshire.) > > MSNBC political contributor Jason Johnson went even further: “I see Bernie Sanders launching his campaign and by August, realizing he won’t be in the top five in Iowa, and dropping out.” Don’t ever change, media. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/753 "2020-02-13T22:44:45Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > The innocent civilians we blew to smithereens 20 years ago are still dead. So are those killed by the socialist revolutionaries Bernie has travelled to visit and expressed such fondness for. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/754 "2020-02-13T23:10:05Z")
Sanders is running against a very weak field even now after so many people dropped out. As they say, in the land of the blind the one eyed guy is king. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/755 "2020-02-14T17:15:54Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > …You seem to be implying that any questionable ideas or associations by the Dems (even if it is ancient history) is automatically damaging to their chances, while Trump can do or say almost any idiotic thing (present tense) which indicates that he is unfit for office, and it won’t move his polling needle down one pixel. Maybe you are right, but that’s a pretty astonishing notion, tbh… As noted above, there are certainly double standards in politics. Trump said and did all those awful things, and is still saying and doing them, and the vast majority of Republican voters voted for him and still love him. He has a personality cult and it’s working for him bigtime. Most voters, and I daresay most Democrats, don’t yet know about the more unappealing things in Sanders’s background that I mentioned. And when they learn about them, as they surely will from the GOP attack machine when and if Bernie secures the Democratic nomination, it will not be politically helpful to him, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/756 "2020-02-14T17:30:47Z")
I’ve changed my opinion since I posted in August. Now, I believe he should be the nominee if the primary process shows that he is getting the strongest support. People criticize his position because they say his initiatives are too expensive, but the reality is that they could probably be paid for by taking back that trillion dollar plus tax break that Trump gave to the millionaires and billionaires that support him. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/757 "2020-02-14T18:53:58Z")
How do we pay for it? How? How? No not medicare. I mean endless wars corruption and rightie nihilism. medicare is a drop in the bucket. If you’re gooinig to complain that we can’t afford health care you must be livid about the conservatives nihilism, profilgacy and waste? Right? Hello…? Hello…? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/758 "2020-02-14T18:55:15Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Sanders is running against a very weak field even now after so many people dropped out. As they say, **in the land of the blind the one eyed guy is king**. You know it’s 2020 in the US? ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/759 "2020-02-14T19:36:13Z")
He isn’t left enough. American politics that you have is too easily bought with money. It’s not the time for moderate solutions like Sanders. You need a clean slate, there is too much dead wood. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/760 "2020-02-14T19:41:11Z")
In a [Condorcet vote](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_criterion), Bernie leads all the other Democrats, and all by double-digits except for Biden and Warren. So even if the rest of the party coalesces around a single alternative, Bernie still could have an advantage (and possibly a big advantage). > > > Political Polls @Politics\_Polls [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=39)