# Why don't you support Bernie Sanders? (if you don't) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632 "2019-06-17T02:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/821 "2020-02-17T17:10:14Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m writing these off the cuff. You think the RNC can’t do better with months of prep? Better than random gibberish? I expect they can. We’ll see if “Bernie is a communist” (which I’ve been hearing for several years, by the way) will carry the day should he be nominated. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/822 "2020-02-17T17:49:54Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Trump: Well, I guess Bernie hasn’t had enough communist vodka tonight. Bernie, Bernie, listen…maybe they’ll let you take a second honeymoon? I’ll call Putin…call him later…they’ll take you back…maybe not. Anyways, folks, listen. This is how they do things…they lie, they keep lying…and Bernie has been doing it for 40 years. He loves the terrorists in Iran; he wishes Putin was a communist. He wants socialism in this country. It will never happen, I guarantee that, never happen So what you’re saying is that a significant percentage of the population may find this steaming pile of incoherent bullshit compelling …and this is somehow Bernie Sanders’ fault. Got it. You’re dancing on America’s grave and you can’t even hear the music. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/823 "2020-02-17T19:10:03Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Another day, another reason to despise Shitbag Sanders. His campaign staff posed as union workers to try to get the endorsement in Nevada. > [https://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/sanders-staffers-posed-as-union-members-in-vegas-218351](https://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/sanders-staffers-posed-as-union-members-in-vegas-218351) They have to resort to this stuff because union members are realizing that ‘Medicare for All’ will make all their hard-won gold plated medical benefits illegal. That’s why he lost the culinary union in Nevada. Now wait while Bernie tries to campaign in the midwest after promising to ban fracking. Bernie’s policies seem tailor made to alienate what should be his ‘base’, while pissing off pretty much everyone in the swing states he would need to win the presidency by promising to ruin their economies. But then, Bernie has never played well with others or learned to compromise in any way. That’s why he has such a miserable record of accomplishment for his many decades in the House. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/824 "2020-02-17T19:55:06Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > They have to resort to this stuff because union members are realizing that ‘Medicare for All’ will make all their hard-won gold plated medical benefits illegal. That’s why he lost the culinary union in Nevada. > > Now wait while Bernie tries to campaign in the midwest after promising to ban fracking. > > Bernie’s policies seem tailor made to alienate what should be his ‘base’, while pissing off pretty much everyone in the swing states he would need to win the presidency by promising to ruin their economies. But then, Bernie has never played well with others or learned to compromise in any way. That’s why he has such a miserable record of accomplishment for his many decades in the House. Advanced Labor Economics was one of my most difficult classes at Florida State and we learned a ton about unions, and discussed endless the trade offs that unions make in their negotiations. Higher pay vs better pension vs working conditions/hours vs benefits. Those Cadillac health plans represent sacrifices made by unions in negotiations. Taking them away with a forced Medicare is something that should scare unions to death even from a so-called ally like Bernie. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/825 "2020-02-17T20:16:23Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > They have to resort to this stuff because union members are realizing that ‘Medicare for All’ will make all their hard-won gold plated medical benefits illegal. That’s why he lost the culinary union in Nevada. Bernie is really doing terribly with the union vote, isn’t he? Now lemme say that again. [Bernie](https://apnews.com/416a6f217c28d58fb11828bb4e3bf825?fbclid=IwAR3VXnVsiEnM04yxhq5mi5G4Yaif_P5N78j3CNs-oN29JDfjpMMNtpiNKds) [is](https://www.nationalnursesunited.org/press/national-nurses-united-endorse-bernie-sanders) [really](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sanders-vs-warren-progressive-contenders-split-endorsement-of-key-california-union) [doing](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvgbpb/a-major-labor-union-just-endorsed-bernie-sanders) [terribly](https://twitter.com/AFSCMELocal3299/status/1228378447971414016) [with](https://www.facebook.com/AFTvt/photos/a.300661896674781/3442304185843854/?type=3&theater) [the](https://twitter.com/WTUTeacher/status/1227422172584521728) [union](https://www.multichannel.com/news/cwas-largest-local-endorses-sanders) [vote](https://www.democraticunderground.com/12964961), [isn’t](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/warren-sanders-get-nod-from-restaurant-workers-union-local/ar-BBZpT3V) [he](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nidhiprakash/nevada-teachers-union-endorse-bernie-sanders-ccea)? ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/826 "2020-02-17T20:39:12Z")
My only problem with him is I don’t know if he will survive the 4 years. I want to know who he has as his vice. if he picks Pete, I am so there. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/827 "2020-02-17T20:54:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Bernie is really doing terribly with the union vote, isn’t he? > > Now lemme say that again. > [Bernie](https://apnews.com/416a6f217c28d58fb11828bb4e3bf825?fbclid=IwAR3VXnVsiEnM04yxhq5mi5G4Yaif_P5N78j3CNs-oN29JDfjpMMNtpiNKds) [is](https://www.nationalnursesunited.org/press/national-nurses-united-endorse-bernie-sanders) [really](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sanders-vs-warren-progressive-contenders-split-endorsement-of-key-california-union) [doing](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvgbpb/a-major-labor-union-just-endorsed-bernie-sanders) [terribly](https://twitter.com/AFSCMELocal3299/status/1228378447971414016) [with](https://www.facebook.com/AFTvt/photos/a.300661896674781/3442304185843854/?type=3&theater) [the](https://twitter.com/WTUTeacher/status/1227422172584521728) [union](https://www.multichannel.com/news/cwas-largest-local-endorses-sanders) [vote](https://www.democraticunderground.com/12964961), [isn’t](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/warren-sanders-get-nod-from-restaurant-workers-union-local/ar-BBZpT3V) [he](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nidhiprakash/nevada-teachers-union-endorse-bernie-sanders-ccea)? What’s the matter with those unions? Don’t they know they are voting against their own interests? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/828 "2020-02-17T21:01:49Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What’s the matter with those unions? Don’t they know they are voting against their own interests? Non-rich Republicans vote against their interests every election. I don’t think the phenomenon is restricted to unions. Besides, Republicans are hostile to the existence of unions, so while Sanders may cause they to lose something, they retain much. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/829 "2020-02-17T21:24:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What’s the matter with those unions? Don’t they know they are voting against their own interests? Typical elitist, always assuming you know better than hard working regular folks as to what’s best for them, just because of your high-falutin’ western Canada education! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/830 "2020-02-17T22:53:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What’s the matter with those unions? Don’t they know they are voting against their own interests? Some people you don’t have to satirize, you just quote ’em. -Tom Paxton ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/831 "2020-02-17T23:44:34Z")
With Hillary out of the picture this time and Biden looking like he needs daily bucketfuls of Geritol, Bernie is potentially a big problem for the Dems. The problem being that his supporters are now numerous and enthusiastically dedicated to securing his nomination, while at the same time he’s too radical for mainstream American voters, more the kind of guy who’d be a shoo-in for leader of the Liberals or the NDP in Canada. I really like Bernie and I think a Bernie presidency with a Democratic Congress would be wonderfully transformational for the US, but it ain’t gonna happen. It’s a problem of damned if you do and damned if you don’t. If he’s nominated, the attacks from the right will be ruthless and it’s practically a guarantee of a second term for Trump that will likely be far more disastrous than the first one. Some of the anti-Bernie ads and diatribes I’ve already seen have been vile and disgusting. If he’s not nominated, there are going to be an awful lot of disillusioned Dems who won’t support the nominee and probably won’t vote, or will cast some sort of protest vote, and ditto – a second term for Trump. How the Dems can’t find a decent electable candidate from 327 million citizens I’ll never understand. The only hope I see is that Bernie gets nominated and undergoes a major transformation to a moderate for the general election, to an extent that doesn’t piss off his supporters too much but may allay some fears from moderates and nervous market-watchers. “Medicare for All” should probably be toned down to at least a medium-term evolutionary process, and one in which private insurance continues to exist but is highly regulated and homogeneous. I love to tell the stories about how private insurance for medically necessary procedures was pretty much literally kicked out of Canada and advised not to let the door hit them on the ass on the way out, but we’re talking about America here. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/832 "2020-02-18T00:09:26Z")
What is an actual cite, or evidence, that Bernie can’t win? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/833 "2020-02-18T00:34:52Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > What is an actual cite, or evidence, that Bernie can’t win? It’s hard to find cites that conclusively predict the future. Call it a hunch, based on large numbers of news items I’ve read and polls I’ve seen, and my sense of the American public (you know, those folks who voted for the current prez). If the economy remains strong, not only is the incumbent traditionally favored, but someone like Bernie who is widely perceived as a threat to economic vitality is going to wind up in Dukakis and McGovern territory, or worse. ETA: I’ll say again that I really like Bernie, but he needs to drastically dial back the radicalism for the general. ---
**Author:** ![Socsback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Socsback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Socsback)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/834 "2020-02-18T00:53:38Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > What is an actual cite, or evidence, that Bernie can’t win? There’s plenty of circumstantial evidence. The demographic of 2016 Trump voters that are vulnerable right now are suburban women. There are signs that they’ve had enough of him. Tell them that you’re going to take away their private insurance, however, and you’ll lose those critical votes. All of them. Bernie is too far left to reel in any swing votes, or independents. He literally won’t get any. Democrats can’t win without those votes. Bernie’s supporters have alienated pretty much every Democratic voter that’s not one of them. Many Democratic voters won’t support him, simply because his trolls have gone too far in many cases. Nothing will rally Trump voters more than the thought of a “socialist/communist” possibly replacing their cult leader. They’ll come out in droves to make sure it doesn’t happen. So yeah, we don’t know for sure… but I don’t see any path for Bernie to win an election against Donald Trump, and it could very well be a very lopsided loss. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/835 "2020-02-18T01:10:22Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > It’s a problem of damned if you do and damned if you don’t. If he’s nominated, the attacks from the right will be ruthless I see this argument a lot. Attacks on Bernie will be ruthless! He’ll be called a socialist! He’ll be called the radical left! He’ll be painted as out of touch with mainstream America! It’s like we’re listing all the ways he’ll be treated **exactly like every other potential nominee.** There’s exactly one person Democrats could nominate who wouldn’t face exactly those charges: Dems could nominate Donald Trump, and we wouldn’t hear cries of “radical left socialist baby-eating godless American hater.” But whoever else is nominated, they’re gonna say that. They only have the one script. So let’s not fuss too much over that script. Let’s think instead of how we’re gonna counter it. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/836 "2020-02-18T01:31:38Z")
> [@Socsback](#): > > There’s plenty of circumstantial evidence. > > The demographic of 2016 Trump voters that are vulnerable right now are suburban women. There are signs that they’ve had enough of him. Tell them that you’re going to take away their private insurance, however, and you’ll lose those critical votes. All of them. > > Bernie is too far left to reel in any swing votes, or independents. He literally won’t get any. Democrats can’t win without those votes. > > Bernie’s supporters have alienated pretty much every Democratic voter that’s not one of them. Many Democratic voters won’t support him, simply because his trolls have gone too far in many cases. > > Nothing will rally Trump voters more than the thought of a “socialist/communist” possibly replacing their cult leader. They’ll come out in droves to make sure it doesn’t happen. > So yeah, we don’t know for sure… but I don’t see any path for Bernie to win an election against Donald Trump, and it could very well be a very lopsided loss. Circumstantial meaning anecdotal and personal. I tend to think of trump as having a ceiling, imposed by his lying, demographics, and “trump reasons.” I don’t see a ceiling for Bernie demonstrated yet. “Bernie’s supporters have alienated pretty much every Democratic voter that’s not one of them. Many Democratic voters won’t support him, simply because his trolls have gone too far in many cases.” This needs to be looked at. I’m a dem too. I don’t see that. This whole scenario about bernies supporters is very big in the media now. I don’t think it has to do with bernies unelectibility. On the contrary it has to do with his electibility. I just heard chris matthews going on about it and inducing his guests to smear bernie from the right basically. I was never on the “MSNBC are republicans” crowd, but I am getting there. I don’t recall bernies effect on the 2016 race as limited or parochial, or failing to gain independents. I thought he was gaining ground. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/837 "2020-02-18T01:35:39Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > It’s hard to find cites that conclusively predict the future. Call it a hunch, based on large numbers of news items I’ve read and polls I’ve seen, and my sense of the American public (you know, those folks who voted for the current prez). If the economy remains strong, not only is the incumbent traditionally favored, but someone like Bernie who is widely perceived as a threat to economic vitality is going to wind up in Dukakis and McGovern territory, or worse. > > ETA: I’ll say again that I really like Bernie, but he needs to drastically dial back the radicalism for the general. In 2016 was bernie seen as a “threat to our economic vitality” by anyone? I’m giving up on “tradition” as a way to see the world. But anyway, what are the most way out things bernie is for? Maybe it’s me that needs to take another look. There are people and forces trying to smother bernie in the cradle, and they don’t care about the truth or the future. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/838 "2020-02-18T01:51:14Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So what you’re saying is that a significant percentage of the population may find this steaming pile of incoherent bullshit compelling …and this is somehow Bernie Sanders’ fault. Got it. > > You’re dancing on America’s grave and you can’t even hear the music. That’s politics. We may wish it worked differently, but it doesn’t. Why did it matter that Dukakis looked goofy riding in a tank? Obviously as CIC, he wouldn’t be the one driving a tank. “Senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy.” It was a zinger, an insult, yet it is still played as one of the greatest debate moments in history. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/839 "2020-02-18T01:57:59Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > I disagree. A vote is an expression of a person’s democratic principles. I disagree. A vote is a vote. _Voting_ is an expression of democratic principals but a vote is not an expression of a person’s _democratic_ principals, just their principles. For instance, there’s nothing inherently _democratic_ about banking regulation, yet people could certainly vote on things about bank regulation. The voting is what’s democratic. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/840 "2020-02-18T02:01:05Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > They have to resort to this stuff because union members are realizing that ‘Medicare for All’ will make all their hard-won gold plated medical benefits illegal. That’s why he lost the culinary union in Nevada. Except that he didn’t. He didn’t lose the Culinary Union because he never had it. What you wrote is not accurate at all. Where did you get your information from? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=43)