# Why don't you support Bernie Sanders? (if you don't) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632 "2019-06-17T02:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/901 "2020-02-21T08:24:53Z")
The lying Bernie sis is at the 22:50 mark. > **[FOX 11's Town Hall with Pete Buttigieg](https://www.foxla.com/video/657096)** > > Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg took questions on some of the biggest issues of the 2020 race during an exclusive town hall hosted by FOX 11 at the University of Southern California on Thursday. The despicable woman submitted a phony question about being the target of LGBT discrimination and an undecided voter to instead ask a gotcha question. I’m sure the revolution means that actual victims of LGBT discrimination need to be silenced in order to further the revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/902 "2020-02-21T08:38:52Z")
You gotta be kidding. She asked about him taking money from fossil fuel executives. That’s an entirely legitimate question to ask. Is the issue that she llied about what question she was going to ask, because the moderators would have protected poor wittle Petie from that line of questioning if they had known? Big fucking deal. Gotta say Pete seemed completely unfazed by it and had an answer ready…almost like he expected to get tough questions when he decided to run for President. Maybe you should take a cue from him. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/903 "2020-02-21T08:52:21Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > You gotta be kidding. She asked about him taking money from fossil fuel executives. That’s an entirely legitimate question to ask. Is the issue that she llied about what question she was going to ask, because the moderators would have protected poor wittle Petie from that line of questioning if they had known? Big fucking deal. Gotta say Pete seemed completely unfazed by it and had an answer ready…almost like he expected to get tough questions when he decided to run for President. Maybe you should take a cue from him. The Bernie sis lied and took a question away from someone else who would have asked about LGBT issues. Obviously, furthering the revolution with a gotcha question is far more important that measly discrimination shit. And, of course Pete handled it well. He’s quite used to Bernie shitbags. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/904 "2020-02-21T12:14:21Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > The Bernie sis lied and took a question away from someone else who would have asked about LGBT issues. Obviously, furthering the revolution with a gotcha question is far more important that measly discrimination shit. And, of course Pete handled it well. He’s quite used to Bernie shitbags. Has it occurred to you that calling fellow Democrats “shitbags” might not be conducive to having the best chance to unite and defeat Trump? If so, and you don’t care about that I kind of thing, then carry on. But if defeating Trump is the most important thing to you (as it is to me), then you might consider not insulting all supporters of a Democratic candidate you don’t like based on the actions of random individuals you find on Twitter (or elsewhere). ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/905 "2020-02-21T18:47:47Z")
I suspect you know that it has, and he doesn’t, and he won’t. I also note that there’s no indication I can see that the questioner is actually a Bernie supporter, though I concede it’s not an unreasonable assumption. But she could be for Warren or a Green or hell, maybe part of Mike Bloomberg’s dirty tricks squad. You’d think this was the only minute and a half of the campaign during which Pete Buttigieg had the opportunity to explain his position on LGBT rights, and now it’s lost forever. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/906 "2020-02-22T01:10:28Z")
Here’s an objectively reasonable reason not to support Bernie: [Putin wants to help him get the nomination.](https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/21/politics/bernie-sanders-russia-election-interference/index.html) Trump is an idiot. But Putin and his team of election meddlers are not. If they believe that Bernie is the weakest candidate vs. Trump, then they have good reason for so thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/907 "2020-02-22T02:14:40Z")
More likely they think he can do far more to divide American society than Trump ever could. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/908 "2020-02-22T04:38:05Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Bad, too: Bernie declining to release his medical records. He’s had a heart attack. He’s 78. It’s reasonable for voters to want to know about his condition. > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > I assume you wouldn’t make statements like this unless you had personally reviewed the records Sanders has made public. Just in case, you can refresh your memory [here.](https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000016f-5890-dcf7-a96f-59b896b00000) What specific information is lacking from that record that you feel is needed to form a reasonable assessment of Sanders’ health status? > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Looking at your link further, **Sherrerd,** it looks as though Bloomberg and Warren have released basically the same information as Sanders has; detailed letters from their physicians outlining their health history and most recent physical exam findings. Why is that good enough for them, but not for Sanders? Bloomberg and Warren haven’t had heart attacks. Many lines of work, including all the armed services, have explicit procedures for regaining “fitness for duty” (and/or “active duty requirements” or similar terms) after a heart attack. Generally a particular battery of tests and details of the results must be submitted—a mere ‘letter from a doctor’ and selected or summary test results, as BS has submitted, would not suffice. Today an article in Slate notes that _ **guesses** _ may be made about Sanders’ condition from what he has released (as well as from statistical data about people his age), but: > [@](#): > > … If Sanders were to honor his promise to release his “full” records, a nearly complete analysis of his short-term health risks could be made. As a physician who assesses these types of risks on a daily basis, I believe that all candidates, especially older ones—and particularly Michael Bloomberg, who has just revealed that he has heart disease significant enough to warrant coronary stenting in the past—should level with the American people and release not just summaries from their personal physicians but comprehensive and detailed medical records. > > …Getting the records would be easy. A signed HIPAA release form is all that is needed. From there, external experts would be able to assess and provide further insight. While, in my opinion, these records would be unlikely to move the needle in favor or against any candidate most of the time, there are sure to be instances, either now or in the future, when voters will have benefited from that information. > > Medical transparency in the age of the geriatric presidency is a good habit. Let’s start it now. > **[What Are the Chances Sanders Has Another Heart Attack Before November?](https://slate.com/technology/2020/02/bernie-sanders-heart-attack-health-risk-profile-campaign.html)** > > The chances of another heart attack are low. Rehospitalization is a different story. (I agree that Bloomberg, too, should release more information.) ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/909 "2020-02-22T05:29:38Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > My bold. > > Thank you! You’ve pointed out that Silver is about as good as all the other pollsters out there. Nothing special, so why do people mention him so much? 😃 > > Also, I pointed out I was exaggerating. But it would be best if there weren’t any polls, IMO. Your bold missed my point. Silver was giving Trump a twenty or thirty times greater chance of winning than those other forecasters. Not the same chance they were. And neither he nor they are pollsters. Also, IMO it would be terrible not to have polls. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/910 "2020-02-22T05:31:54Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Here’s an objectively reasonable reason not to support Bernie: [Putin wants to help him get the nomination.](https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/21/politics/bernie-sanders-russia-election-interference/index.html) > > Trump is an idiot. But Putin and his team of election meddlers are not. If they believe that Bernie is the weakest candidate vs. Trump, then they have good reason for so thinking. Yes. So far over the past five years I have avoided supporting any of the candidates Putin has backed (Trump, Stein, Sanders, Gabbard), and I think I’m going to continue with that policy. ETA: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Has it occurred to you that calling fellow Democrats “shitbags” might not be conducive to having the best chance to unite and defeat Trump? If so, and you don’t care about that I kind of thing, then carry on. But if defeating Trump is the most important thing to you (as it is to me), then you might consider not insulting all supporters of a Democratic candidate you don’t like based on the actions of random individuals you find on Twitter (or elsewhere). What is your evidentiary basis for calling Bernie and/or his supporters “fellow Democrats” or in Bernie’s case a “Democratic candidate”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/911 "2020-02-22T11:07:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Yes. So far over the past five years I have avoided supporting any of the candidates Putin has backed (Trump, Stein, Sanders, Gabbard), and I think I’m going to continue with that policy. > > ETA: > > What is your evidentiary basis for calling Bernie and/or his supporters “fellow Democrats” or in Bernie’s case a “Democratic candidate”? Bernie is running for the Democratic nomination, and according to the polling I’ve seen, most of his supporters are Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/912 "2020-02-22T12:02:42Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > The Bernie sis lied and took a question away from someone else who would have asked about LGBT issues. Either (a) this doesn’t matter because Buttigieg is taking plenty of questions, so one more or less makes no difference, or (b) he needs to take enough questions to make (a) be true. Either way, your ire is misplaced. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/913 "2020-02-22T14:48:32Z")
Dick Van Dyke endorsed Sanders. Saw the video and thought “wow he’s really old” and he’s 94 so he looks his age. I was thinking he was in his 70s ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/914 "2020-02-22T15:18:46Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Here’s an objectively reasonable reason not to support Bernie: [Putin wants to help him get the nomination.](https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/21/politics/bernie-sanders-russia-election-interference/index.html) > > Trump is an idiot. But Putin and his team of election meddlers are not. If they believe that Bernie is the weakest candidate vs. Trump, then they have good reason for so thinking. “Objectively reasonable.” Yeah? That how it feels to you? Because I think you’ll find there are many frames of reference from which what you have just said is utterly, almost unspeakably, unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/915 "2020-02-22T18:02:55Z")
The simplest explanation is that they think Bernie is the weakest candidate. Even in other, less likely, frames of mind, where Putin is doing it for the sake of chaos or some other multidimensional reason, it still isn’t “utterly, almost unspeakably, unreasonable” to wonder if he’s still doing it because Bernie is the weakest candidate because Russia would never just declare “nope! We’re scared of Bernie! We just thought backing him would cause him to lose the nomination and he’s the strongest candidate!” ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/916 "2020-02-22T18:13:58Z")
The simplest explanation is that they’re doing the same thing they’ve been doing all along, because of how successful it has been. It’s also the reason that was reported in the story that broke this news: “The prospect of two rival campaigns both receiving help from Moscow appears to reflect what intelligence officials have previously described as Russia’s broader interest in sowing division in the United States and uncertainty about the validity of American elections.” There are people saying that obviously the next step is that Putin will try to get Sanders elected, and that will be the final step in destroying our democracy. There are other people, as here, saying it’s obviously the case that Putin thinks Trump can beat Sanders the easiest. Weirdly, which of those perspectives is obviously the simplest one tends to correspond to people’s prior beliefs about Sanders’ electability, as far as I can tell. It’s only from the perspective of a Democrat who thinks Sanders sucks and should be shunned no matter how he’s doing in the primaries that it’s so obvious that Putin is just picking a horse because he wants Trump to have an easy election. From the perspective of someone who isn’t that, it is extremely obvious that the point of propping up Sanders and Trump at the same time is the same as it has been all along: to ensure that chaos reigns and the US is utterly fucked no matter what happens. It appears to be going, you know, all right so far. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/917 "2020-02-22T18:15:47Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > More likely they think he can do far more to divide American society than Trump ever could. They are not choosing between them though. It’s just because bernie is visibly a polar opposite of trump. Russia is supporting oligarchy. bernie is an enemy of it. By supporting bernie they are just using pols as wrecking balls. It’s about supporting the chaos that can lead to oligarchy. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/918 "2020-02-22T18:18:35Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > The simplest explanation is that they’re doing the same thing they’ve been doing all along, because of how successful it has been. It’s also the reason that was reported in the story that broke this news: “The prospect of two rival campaigns both receiving help from Moscow appears to reflect what intelligence officials have previously described as Russia’s broader interest in sowing division in the United States and uncertainty about the validity of American elections.” > > There are people saying that obviously the next step is that Putin will try to get Sanders elected, and that will be the final step in destroying our democracy. There are other people, as here, saying it’s obviously the case that Putin thinks Trump can beat Sanders the easiest. Weirdly, which of those perspectives is obviously the simplest one tends to correspond to people’s prior beliefs about Sanders’ electability, as far as I can tell. > > It’s only from the perspective of a Democrat who thinks Sanders sucks and should be shunned no matter how he’s doing in the primaries that it’s so obvious that Putin is just betting on a horse because he wants Trump to have an easy election. From the perspective of someone who isn’t that, it is extremely obvious that the point of propping up Sanders and Trump at the same time is the same as it has been all along: to ensure that chaos reigns and the US is utterly fucked no matter what happens. It appears to be going, you know, all right so far. Except that Bernie Sanders is an enemy of putin and oligarchy. So they do have a dog in the fight in the end, and it’s to destroy bernies ideas and movment in the public sphere. **Even though they are supporting him.** ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/919 "2020-02-22T18:30:02Z")
I don’t agree, **drad dog**. I think that’s more self-defeating Putin-as-evil-cartoon-mastermind thinking. It’s not a 25 step plan. It’s not like he decided pre-2016 to start this information war because he foresaw Bernie Sanders leading the polls in 2020. He saw how fucked the US already was, saw opportunities to quad-fuck it, and he’s been doing the thing that he thinks will be most successful at achieving that. I think whoever wins the 2020 election, Putin will feel just fine about it, as long as we keep dragging ourselves through this hellscape to get there. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/920 "2020-02-22T18:44:45Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I don’t agree, **drad dog**. I think that’s more self-defeating Putin-as-evil-cartoon-mastermind thinking. It’s not a 25 step plan. It’s not like he decided pre-2016 to start this information war because he foresaw Bernie Sanders leading the polls in 2020. He saw how fucked the US already was, saw opportunities to quad-fuck it, and he’s been doing the thing that he thinks will be most successful at achieving that. I think whoever wins the 2020 election, Putin will feel just fine about it, as long as we keep dragging ourselves through this hellscape to get there. Mastermind? He is supporting two people. No higher math involved. One of them is his aspirational buddy, and one of them is his enemy. They are contesting philosophically for the heart of the US. One of them he already knows is poisoning the US for generations, and has given him the greatest russian intelligence success in history, for his own personal narcissistic supply. The other one hates him and his movement. What do I need to know here that I don’t? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=47)