# Why don't you support Bernie Sanders? (if you don't) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632 "2019-06-17T02:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1041 "2020-02-26T20:18:07Z")
Because I prefer Elizabeth Warren. I wanted her to run _last_ time. However, I’ll vote for ANYBODY on the Dem side vs. Angry Lid’l’ Donny (though if it turns out to be Michael Bloomberg - I don’t think it will, but if it does - it’ll be “hold my nose” time, again, just as it was last time). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1042 "2020-02-26T20:26:01Z")
One of the saddest things I’ve learned from #MeToo is that some folks really don’t seem to be able to comprehend that, to some other folks, _stopping the mistreatment of women is more important than politics_. That really seems beyond the scope of understanding for some unfortunate souls. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1043 "2020-02-26T20:38:25Z")
Yeah, I’m wondering which of “Our guys” got the “doesn’t count” treatment. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1044 "2020-02-26T20:59:20Z")
One of the big things I’ve learned from #MeToo, and especially from the Al Franken episode, is the “no heroes” rule. I like Bernie, but if he’s credible accused of rape or sexual assault, or a video comes out with him bragging about sexual assault, or a picture comes out with him using a sleeping woman’s breasts as a comedy prop, etc., I’d drop him in a second. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1045 "2020-02-26T22:01:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **One of the big things I’ve learned from #MeToo, and especially from the Al Franken episode, is the “no heroes” rule**. I like Bernie, but if he’s credible accused of rape or sexual assault, or a video comes out with him bragging about sexual assault, or a picture comes out with him using a sleeping woman’s breasts as a comedy prop, etc., I’d drop him in a second. One of _my_ biggest takeaways is what Woody Allen said about the whole “movement” when it started: “So we’re just supposed to believe all women who come out and accuse men of things without giving said men their due?” (And I hardly think that what Al Franken did came anywhere CLOSE to being “insulting to women” as what Donny Drumpf has confessed to doing and what others of his ilk have done. Al Franken being “taken down” was a “hit job” by Sean Flim-Flammity and that conservative young woman [whose name escapes me at the moment. I’ve probably blocked it]. That’s _all_ that was). Yes, women have been abused by men since time immemorial. But _some_ women make sh\*t up, too. There’s no getting around that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1046 "2020-02-26T22:08:28Z")
> [@racepug](#): > > One of _my_ biggest takeaways is what Woody Allen said about the whole “movement” when it started: “So we’re just supposed to believe all women who come out and accuse men of things without giving said men their due?” (And I hardly think that what Al Franken did came anywhere CLOSE to being “insulting to women” as what Donny Drumpf has confessed to doing and what others of his ilk have done. Al Franken being “taken down” was a “hit job” by Sean Flim-Flammity and that conservative young woman [whose name escapes me at the moment. I’ve probably blocked it]. That’s _all_ that was). Yes, women have been abused by men since time immemorial. But _some_ women make sh\*t up, too. There’s no getting around that. Woody Allen, like many older men, doesn’t appear to understand the movement at all. And that what Franken is accused of is much less severe than Trump doesn’t change my point at all (though it is shameful and misogynistic to call this very credible accusation which was accompanied by photographic evidence a “hit job”). But this is getting pretty far off topic from Bernie, so if you want to continue this I recommend we take it to another thread (like perhaps the GD thread I started earlier today). ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1047 "2020-02-26T23:11:39Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Everyone who thinks bernie is the best bet doesn’t “adore” him. I suppose not. Statistically it’s bound to be the case that some of his supporters are merely making a calculated choice that he’s their best option. By the way, would you have any problem with a Bernie candidacy if he chooses Tulsi Gabbard as his running mate? —I’m curious about the reactions of all the Bernie supporters in this thread, too. It’s not being floated by his campaign, so far as I know, but there was some discussion of the possibility on Twitter today: > [@](#): > > Fernand R. Amandi @AmandiOnAir > > Just speculating here, but what happens if @BernieSanders should win the nomination & then reasons that for his VP pick he needs a younger, female, Democratic member of Congress who’s also a U.S. military veteran that shares his political views? > > What if her name’s @TulsiGabbard ? > > 3:24 PM · Feb 26, 2020·Twitter Web App > > [@drad\_dog](#): > > I don’t agree about vote totals, even the second time around. If you have differing numbers, please share! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1048 "2020-02-26T23:35:18Z")
I’d be quite pissed (and very surprised) if he picked Tulsi. I seriously doubt he’d do that, but we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1049 "2020-02-27T00:08:19Z")
Tulsi Baggage? She’s a hot mess. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1050 "2020-02-27T00:15:06Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I suppose not. Statistically it’s bound to be the case that some of his supporters are merely making a calculated choice that he’s their best option. There must be reasons beyond calculation and adoration. It would be more accurate to list those too. Ethical Economic Environmental Fairness Anti trump momentum Independence from bad actors and money Open to socialism, as distinct from communism There are good reasons that are not simple calculations of self interest or rage. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1051 "2020-02-27T02:47:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In case anyone’s curious, Bernie did not write this, not in 1969 or any other time. > [@Bernie Sanders](#): > > The revolution comes when two strangers smile at each other, when a father refuses to send his child to school because schools destroy children, when a commune is started and people begin to trust each other, when a young man refuses to go to war, **and when a girl pushes aside all that her mother has ‘taught’ her and accepts her boyfriend’s love.** Bolding mine. But really, the whole paragraph is kind of nuts. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1052 "2020-02-27T03:06:59Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Bolding mine. But really, the whole paragraph is kind of nuts. Get out much? It sounds like a hallmark card from 1968. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1053 "2020-02-27T03:17:49Z")
1968 Hallmark cards said “schools destroy children”? I had no idea. (My public school teacher wife can’t stand Bernie, BTW, and I haven’t even told her about this one yet.) > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > 1960s Bernie had some weird ideas about health, but even then they weren’t close to as disgusting and harmful as 2000s Donald Trump. Bernie never bragged about sexual assault and violating the consent of women; Bernie has never had a single credible allegation of rape or sexual assault against him, much less dozens; Bernie has never publicly lusted after his daughter; Bernie has never identified children as future girlfriends; etc. So what? Seriously, how is this even slightly relevant? Onion parody aside, Trump is not running in the Democratic primaries, and I’d like to hope that if he did, he would fare very poorly. Are you just trying to set such an incredibly low bar that Bernie can easily clear it? I mean, really: what is your point? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1054 "2020-02-27T03:19:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As far as I can find from googling, Bernie never said this either. He did discuss parenting and advised mothers to value their daughter’s happiness over their community reputation, but I saw nothing remotely about advocating “that 16 year olds should be exploring their sexuality and mothers should be happy about it”. I’ll let Bernie speak for himself: > [@Bernie Sanders](#): > > How much guilt, nervousness have you imbued in your daughter with regard to sex? If she is 16, 3 years beyond puberty and the time which nature set forth for childbearing, and spent a night out with her boyfriend, what is your reaction? Do you take her to a psychiatrist because she is “maladjusted,” or a “prostitute,” or are you happy that she has found someone with whom she can share love? Are you concerned about HER happiness, or about your “reputation” in the community. Paraphrased, if Mom isn’t happy with her 16 year old spending the night with a guy, it’s because of Mom trying to protect her own reputation, and a better mother would be happy for her daughter. [Cite.](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/bernie-sanders-vermont-freeman-sexual-freedom-fluoride/) From that well-known right-wing rag called “Mother Jones”. > [@](#): > > 1960s Bernie had some weird ideas about health 1960’s Bernie? He’s STILL a nut about health. He’s a full-on alternative medicine crank. He opposed flouridation of drinking water, for God’s sake. [Bernie Sanders’ Long History With Alternative Medicine](https://time.com/4249034/bernie-sanders-alternative-medicine-cancer/?xid=tcoshare) > [@](#): > > From linking sexual abstinence to cancer to blaming disease on the “ails of society,” Sanders has sometimes professed opinions on health as alternative as his political ideas. He penned essays in his twenties arguing that sexual repression causes cancer in women, and suggested through his late forties that the disease has psychosomatic causes. > > … > > After he arrived in Congress in 1991, he backed legislation supporting acupuncture and other naturopathic remedies and held conferences on alternative health. > > “I would classify [Bernie] as a huge supporter of alternative therapies and natural medicine,” said Michael Stadtmauer, a naturopathic doctor in Montpelier who attended an alternative health conference with Sanders in 2010. “In Vermont we have a general friendliness toward [alternative medicine] that doesn’t exist in other states.” > > … > > Sanders said in 1981 that in his college days he developed a theory that “disease to a large degree is caused by the way we live in society.” > > Seven years later, as the 46-year-old mayor of Burlington in 1988, he participated in a local “media bash.” … At the event, he went on to suggest that cancer is caused by mental distress, echoing his views from the 1960s. He pointed to Nora Astorga, a Sandanista politician who visited Burlington in 1987 and later died of cervical cancer. Sanders proposed that Astorga’s cancer was caused by grief from her experiences in the war in Nicaragua. > > “I have my own feelings about what causes cancer and the psychosomatic aspects of cancer,” Sanders said. So Bernie, with no medical training or experience whatsoever, has his own theories on what causes cancer. For example, women not having enough orgasms. The man is a nut. But surely he wouldn’t act on this as President, right? You might be a little worried if you look at what he’s tried to do in the Senate: > [@](#): > > He has supported legislation that would expand alternative medicine. Sanders co-sponsored a bill in 2001 that would have allowed federal employees to access and be reimbursed for services from a massage therapist or an acupuncturist. > > Sanders also sponsored a bill in the Senate in 2013 that would have increased access for veterans to alternative medicine by increasing funding for alternative medicine research and allow veterans’ health care to cover alternative forms of healthcare. This is a guy who thinks he kmows how to completely redesign American Health Care. Get ready for your government-paid-for nonsense medicine. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1055 "2020-02-27T03:47:34Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I’ll let Bernie speak for himself: > > … All this does is help trump get elected. Pick a candidate and\*\* tell us why his policies are better, \*\*instead of dredging up old crap like the kremlin and GOP do. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1056 "2020-02-27T04:02:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > All this does is help trump get elected. Pick a candidate and\*\* tell us why his policies are better, \*\*instead of dredging up old crap like the kremlin and GOP do. No. You don’t get to dictate the terms of the debate. Calling people out on their past statements is a perfectly legitimate way to differentiate candidates—and in fact I believe it is essential as a form of vetting, before we give someone the awesome responsibility of being our standardbearer. If you personally do not wish to do this and only wish to make positive statements about the candidates you like, that is your prerogative. But don’t tell others what not to say. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1057 "2020-02-27T04:11:15Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > No. You don’t get to dictate the terms of the debate. Calling people out on their past statements is a perfectly legitimate way to differentiate candidates—and in fact I believe it is essential as a form of vetting, before we give someone the awesome responsibility of being our standardbearer. If you personally do not wish to do this and only wish to make positive statements about the candidates you like, that is your prerogative. But don’t tell others what not to say. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1058 "2020-02-27T04:59:04Z")
You’re welcome! ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1059 "2020-02-27T05:04:12Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This is a guy who thinks he kmows how to completely redesign American Health Care. Get ready for your government-paid-for nonsense medicine. And here I thought Bernie was for Medicare for all. As far as I know, Medicare is a system that exists right now. People over 65 are actually using it as their health insurance. Is it “government-paid-for nonsense”? Jeez. Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1060 "2020-02-27T06:02:50Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > No. You don’t get to dictate the terms of the debate. Calling people out on their past statements is a perfectly legitimate way to differentiate candidates—and in fact I believe it is essential as a form of vetting, before we give someone the awesome responsibility of being our standardbearer. I… But don’t tell others what not to say. Calling people out for things they did many decades isnt a"perfectly legitimate way to differentiate candidates". 2016 proved that attacking Hillary worked to elect trump. I am not telling you what to say. What I am saying is that when you attack a dem candidate like that you are effectively campaigning for trump. So, if you are a trump supporter, then you are doing exactly the correct thing. If you are not a trump supporter (and i dont think you are), you are effectively giving him a huge helping hand in winning the election. This election is not about getting my candidate in, or your candidate in, or the perfect candidate in- it’s about one thing and one thing only **“DUMP TRUMP”**. By attacking a dem candidate with such scurrilous crap from **19fucking81** (not talking about their current platform, you can attack that all you want, that’s fair game) you _are_ helping trump win in 2020. That’s a fact. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=54)