# Why don't you support Bernie Sanders? (if you don't) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632 "2019-06-17T02:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1081 "2020-02-29T12:35:36Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > A new poll finds Bernie statistically tied with Trump in the battleground states, while Biden has a seven point lead: [New Yahoo News/YouGov poll: Who is strongest against Trump? Must-win states and swing voters show Biden holds edge over Sanders](https://news.yahoo.com/new-yahoo-news-you-gov-poll-biden-holds-edge-over-sanders-in-battlegrounds-171601673.html) No poll is a perfect predictor of anything, but to me this is the ONLY sort of poll that matters. I love Sanders for many reasons, and agree with just about everything he espouses, but that DOESN’T. F\*#%^ING. MATTER. This is a chess move, not a valentine. (Interesting that Bloomberg doesn’t match up at all well against Trump in these battleground states.) ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1082 "2020-02-29T12:42:31Z")
Bernie can always do what Obama did and choose Biden as his VP. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1083 "2020-02-29T13:01:11Z")
If all the polls showed one candidate doing significantly better that the others against Trump, nationally or in swing states, then I’d reconsider my electability estimate that currently has Bernie on top. But from what I’ve seen, the polls on this vary quite widely - sometimes Biden looks strongest, and sometimes Bernie looks strongest (I think those are the only two that have been looking best in various polls). So I don’t think the polls alone yet tell us who has the best electability argument (in addition to how early they are). ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1084 "2020-02-29T13:33:38Z")
> **[The Mayor Of Jackson, Mississippi, Has Endorsed Bernie Sanders After A Caucus...](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryancbrooks/bernie-sanders-2020-mississippi-endorse-lumumba)** > > Mayor Chokwe Lumumba, who has been courted by multiple campaigns, asked his city to determine which candidate to back ahead of the Mississippi primary. > [@](#): > > Chokwe Antar Lumumba, the young progressive mayor of Jackson, Mississippi, is endorsing Sen. Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign **after residents of Jackson voted to endorse Sanders during a people’s caucus.** > > “I believe that an endorsement from myself should represent more than just my own personal thoughts, views, and opinions. It should be considerate of the people who are impacted by the policy, impacted by whatever relationship ensues from that individual if that relationship were to prevail,” Lumumba said explaining the choice to have a caucus. “We decided that we’d have a people’s caucus, which is consistent with our normal assemblies to discuss major issues in our city.” Just thought this was interesting. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1085 "2020-02-29T14:34:20Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Bernie can always do what Obama did and choose Biden as his VP. Yes. Biden could be the Grover Cleveland of vice presidents! ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1086 "2020-02-29T15:00:37Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [The Mayor Of Jackson, Mississippi, Has Endorsed Bernie Sanders' 2020 Campaign](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/ryancbrooks/bernie-sanders-2020-mississippi-endorse-lumumba) > > Just thought this was interesting. Pfft. Everybody knows Jackson, Mississippi is a stronghold of white communist teens with Masters degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1087 "2020-02-29T16:11:52Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > No. You don’t get to dictate the terms of the debate. Calling people out on their past statements is a perfectly legitimate way to differentiate candidates—and in fact I believe it is essential as a form of vetting, before we give someone the awesome responsibility of being our standardbearer. If you personally do not wish to do this and only wish to make positive statements about the candidates you like, that is your prerogative. But don’t tell others what not to say. So…while we’re calling out Bernie on his past statements I guess we should also: [ul] [li] Call out Biden for buddying up with segregationists and speaking at Strom Thurmond’s funeral.[/li][li] Call out Elizabeth Warren for lying about her own race and calling herself American Indian when she actually belongs to the race who massacred the American Indians.[/li][li] Call out Mike Bloomberg for telling a pregnant employee to “kill it” and get back to work.[/ul][/li] And that’s just the stuff I can remember off the top of my head. You think the Republicans won’t run all that shit into the ground? Because they will. You think they can’t make any of that sound as bad, or worse, than this Bernie stuff? Because they can! The only difference is that, when they’re put under pressure to defend this stuff, Biden, Warren, and Bloomberg will do what moderates _always_ do. They’ll either lie, or they’ll bow and scrape and beg forgiveness until the people they’re trying to impress just think they’re weak. Meanwhile, Bernie will be like _“Yeah. I said that shit. So what? Hands up if you can’t afford your health care.”_ Not only have other candidates said and done things which are as bad or worse than Bernie, but they, unlike Bernie, don’t have a coherent message with which to reframe the conversation after a Republican attack. Bernie can just keep bringing everything back to health care. What can Bloomberg bring the conversation back to? When he’s on stage debating Trump and the moderators ask him why Black people should trust Mayor Stop ‘n Frisk what the _fuck_ is he going to say? Some anodyne pablum about how dangerous Trump is? Yeah. That worked _so_ well in 2016, didn’t it? And that’s another thing. We let you people pick the nominee four years ago and you _chose wrong_. Maybe, before pontificating on “electability” - a subject which history has proven you know _nothing_ about - you should let the people who _didn’t_ make the wrong choice last time have first pick? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1088 "2020-02-29T17:08:31Z")
Basically, terribly thought out stuff like this: > **[Bernie Sanders's plan to hike taxes on some startup employees](https://www.axios.com/2020/02/28/bernie-sanders-tax-proposal)** > > The proposal applies to employees earning more than $130,000 per year. "Sens. Bernie Sanders (D-VT) and Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) introduced legislation that would tax nonqualified stock options at vesting, rather than at exercise, for employees making at least $130,000 per year. The big picture: Select employees at private companies would be taxed on monies that they hadn’t yet banked." This is a tax on money that these employees, who are by no means wealthy, do not have and may never have; they very well may end up paying huge taxes for money that they never get a dime of. Taxing wealth is the right thing to do, but maybe we should do that by taxing the actual wealth of the actually wealthy rather than the imaginary wealthy of the middle class. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1089 "2020-02-29T17:29:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Calling people out for things they did many decades isnt a"perfectly legitimate way to differentiate candidates". 2016 proved that attacking Hillary worked to elect trump. > > I am not telling you what to say. What I am saying is that when you attack a dem candidate like that you are effectively campaigning for trump. So, if you are a trump supporter, then you are doing exactly the correct thing. > > If you are not a trump supporter (and i dont think you are), you are effectively giving him a huge helping hand in winning the election. > > This election is not about getting my candidate in, or your candidate in, or the perfect candidate in- it’s about one thing and one thing only **“DUMP TRUMP”**. > > By attacking a dem candidate with such scurrilous crap from **19fucking81** (not talking about their current platform, you can attack that all you want, that’s fair game) you _are_ helping trump win in 2020. That’s a fact. So you think if posters on the SDMB refrain from bringing up things that Bernie did in the past, then the RNC won’t get wind of it and won’t be able to use them against Bernie in the general election? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1090 "2020-02-29T19:31:32Z")
Negative campaigning, including bringing up past writings and assertions, is good for the party and will, ultimately, give us a stronger candidate. I will rebut the criticisms of my favored candidate (Bernie) that I think are wrongheaded, but I think it’s good for the Bernie campaign and the party in general to bring these potential lines of attack now, since they’ll certainly be brought up later if he becomes the nominee. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1091 "2020-02-29T19:51:46Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > So…while we’re calling out Bernie on his past statements I guess we should also: > > [list] > [li] Call out Biden for buddying up with segregationists and speaking at Strom Thurmond’s funeral.[/li]… > And that’s just the stuff I can remember off the top of my head. You think the Republicans won’t run all that shit into the ground? … > The only difference is that, when they’re put under pressure to defend this stuff, Biden, Warren, and Bloomberg will do what moderates _always_ do. They’ll either lie, or they’ll bow and scrape and beg forgiveness until the people they’re trying to impress just think they’re weak. Meanwhile, Bernie will be like _“Yeah. I said that shit. So what? Hands up if you can’t afford your health care.”_ > > … > > And that’s another thing. We let you people pick the nominee four years ago and you _chose wrong_. Maybe, before pontificating on “electability” - a subject which history has proven you know _nothing_ about - you should let the people who _didn’t_ make the wrong choice last time have first pick? Typical Bernie-Bro nonsense, designed to put Trump back in Office, just liek they did in 2016. Let’s just take one piece of Typical Bernie-Bro propaganda: "_Call out Biden for buddying up with segregationists and speaking at Strom Thurmond’s funeral."_ Yep- Joe, as a senior member of the Senate was called upon to give a eulogy for Thurmond. And he did what any _decent human being_ would do- he talked about the good things. Because if you _are_ a decent human beings- that’s what you do. Apparently, the point here is the Sanders \*\*isn’t \*\*a decent human being, but all that sez about Joe is he is a decent human being that shoulders his responsibilities (and if you actually read his eulogy, it’s pretty clear he was damning with faint praise- since faint praise is about the most anyone could muster). So- thanks for telling us Biden is a decent responsible human being but Bernie isn’t. Because that’s exactly what that says. And you know who "picked’ the candidate in 2016? The voters. So apparently the Bernie-bros dont like democracy either. They want us to ignore what the people want, and go with whom they want. Maybe that mean Bernie is a commie after all, I guess is what they are saying. And bernie-bros wonder why we dont like Bernie- _this_ is the reason. **YOU** are the reason Dems dont like bernie. Congrats, you just lost bernie a bunch of votes- and picked up a few for trump. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1092 "2020-02-29T19:53:53Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Basically, terribly thought out stuff like this: > > [https://www.axios.com/bernie-sanders-tax-proposal-973ef0b3-06e8-4a76-b15b-5ecbe1bb2a80.html](https://www.axios.com/bernie-sanders-tax-proposal-973ef0b3-06e8-4a76-b15b-5ecbe1bb2a80.html) > > "Sens. Bernie Sanders (D-VT) and Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) introduced legislation that would tax nonqualified stock options at vesting, rather than at exercise, for employees making at least $130,000 per year. > > The big picture: Select employees at private companies would be taxed on monies that they hadn’t yet banked." > > This is a tax on money that these employees, who are by no means wealthy, do not have and may never have; they very well may end up paying huge taxes for money that they never get a dime of. > > Taxing wealth is the right thing to do, but maybe we should do that by taxing the actual wealth of the actually wealthy rather than the imaginary wealthy of the middle class. Now see- this is one of Sanders current policies/platforms/ideas, so this is a totally legit complaint. Not crap from 40 years ago that has been disavowed. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1093 "2020-02-29T19:58:34Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So you think if posters on the SDMB refrain from bringing up things that Bernie did in the past, then the RNC won’t get wind of it and won’t be able to use them against Bernie in the general election? The RNC and the Kremlin will do their best to spread lies, disinformation and meaningless crap from 40 years ago that is no longer valid and has been disavowed. **Why help them?** Really- _why_ help the kremlin and the RNC re-elect trump? \*\* Why\*\* spread their propaganda? Only reason i can think of-\* is to re-elect trump. \* Is that what you want? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1094 "2020-02-29T20:59:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The RNC and the Kremlin will do their best to spread lies, disinformation and meaningless crap from 40 years ago that is no longer valid and has been disavowed. > > **Why help them?** > > Really- _why_ help the kremlin and the RNC re-elect trump? \*\* Why\*\* spread their propaganda? > > Only reason i can think of-\* is to re-elect trump. \* Is that what you want? 😕 Nobody in this thread is bringing up any lies or misinformation. And although you may think that some of the things that Bernie said 40 years ago are “meaningless crap” they are thinks which will resonate with voters. Like taking his honeymoon in the Soviet Union. Sure, you can say that it was a business trip that just happened to occur directly after his wedding, and that explanation may satisfy you. But how it is wrong to bring it up as a negative that will impact many swing voters? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1095 "2020-02-29T22:06:35Z")
Shhhhh. If we don’t say anything about it, maybe Bernie can tiptoe into the nomination and the Republicans will forget about all that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1096 "2020-02-29T22:27:06Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Basically, terribly thought out stuff like this: > > [https://www.axios.com/bernie-sanders-tax-proposal-973ef0b3-06e8-4a76-b15b-5ecbe1bb2a80.html](https://www.axios.com/bernie-sanders-tax-proposal-973ef0b3-06e8-4a76-b15b-5ecbe1bb2a80.html) > > "Sens. Bernie Sanders (D-VT) and Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) introduced legislation that would tax nonqualified stock options at vesting, rather than at exercise, for employees making at least $130,000 per year. > > The big picture: Select employees at private companies would be taxed on monies that they hadn’t yet banked." > > This is a tax on money that these employees, who are by no means wealthy, do not have and may never have; they very well may end up paying huge taxes for money that they never get a dime of. > > Taxing wealth is the right thing to do, but maybe we should do that by taxing the actual wealth of the actually wealthy rather than the imaginary wealthy of the middle class. This may not be a great political strategy, but it’s not the disaster you’re making it out to be. The idea seems to be to treat generous stock options as income for people who are already making a good salary. You also didn’t mention that the tax would only apply to vested options above $100,000 per year. The first $100,000 is tax exempt. So while I’m not fond of the plan, someone receiving, say, $200,000 in vested stock options in a year in addition to a decent salary would not suffer too much hardship if they had to sell some of it to cover income taxes on half of it. But I’m sure this will upset a fair number of supporters in places like Silicon Valley who would be directly affected. The idea of taxing “putative income” that you don’t actually have is not new. It applies, for instance, to strip bonds in both the US and Canadian tax systems. Strip bonds are zero-interest bonds from which all the interest-bearing coupons have been removed, and are sold at a discount well below face value. But the IRS treats them like interest-bearing bonds; they divide the price differential (your profit at maturity) by the number of years to maturity, and each year you owe taxes on that amount of putative interest even though you never see a dime. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1097 "2020-02-29T22:31:09Z")
I assume that under such a law, if you don’t get the income you don’t get taxed. That is the same as the witholding on all americans paychecks. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1098 "2020-02-29T22:34:10Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Nobody in this thread is bringing up any lies or misinformation. And although you may think that some of the things that Bernie said 40 years ago are “meaningless crap” they are thinks which will resonate with voters. > > Like taking his honeymoon in the Soviet Union. Sure, you can say that it was a business trip that just happened to occur directly after his wedding, and that explanation may satisfy you. But how it is wrong to bring it up as a negative that will impact many swing voters? Dude. Donald Trump literally married two… not, one, but two… Communist prostitutes. What the h\*\*\* are you going on about? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1099 "2020-02-29T22:47:13Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > …Never heard of windmill cancer, but it sounds stupid… Yes. Yes, it is. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1100 "2020-02-29T22:52:13Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Nobody in this thread is bringing up any lies or misinformation. And although you may think that some of the things that Bernie said 40 years ago are “meaningless crap” they are thinks which will resonate with voters. > > Like taking his honeymoon in the Soviet Union. Sure, you can say that it was a business trip that just happened to occur directly after his wedding, and that explanation may satisfy you. But how it is wrong to bring it up as a negative that will impact many swing voters? Because going to the Soviet Union with a 12-person delegation to establish a sister-city relationship between Burlington and Yaroslavl as a gesture of goodwill was not a honeymoon and should not be falsely presented as a negative. His wife was there in her official capacity as the director of the Mayor’s Youth Office. The couple had an actual honeymoon the following year, in St. Lucia in the Caribbean. The only way this will negatively affect swing voters is if it’s misrepresented, the way it consistently has been in right-wing media. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=56)