# Why don't you support Bernie Sanders? (if you don't) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632 "2019-06-17T02:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1101 "2020-02-29T23:01:13Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Basically, terribly thought out stuff like this: > > [https://www.axios.com/bernie-sanders-tax-proposal-973ef0b3-06e8-4a76-b15b-5ecbe1bb2a80.html](https://www.axios.com/bernie-sanders-tax-proposal-973ef0b3-06e8-4a76-b15b-5ecbe1bb2a80.html) > > "Sens. Bernie Sanders (D-VT) and Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) introduced legislation that would tax nonqualified stock options at vesting, rather than at exercise, for employees making at least $130,000 per year. > > The big picture: Select employees at private companies would be taxed on monies that they hadn’t yet banked." > > This is a tax on money that these employees, who are by no means wealthy, do not have and may never have; they very well may end up paying huge taxes for money that they never get a dime of. > > Taxing wealth is the right thing to do, but maybe we should do that by taxing the actual wealth of the actually wealthy rather than the imaginary wealthy of the middle class. This ^ and this ^ again. I think Bernie’s supporters don’t get it. “Yeah, well fine, they’re going to call any democrat a socialist.” That is true, but not every democrat calls himself a democratic socialist. Not every democrat in the race wears that on his sleeve. Not every democrat is proposing policies that, nice idea or not, represent a radical and sudden shift in the relationship between government and business, and government and people. There will come a point - probably when the pundits really and truly begin to take him seriously - when people will begin taking into consideration the likelihood of his legislation passing (not very good, honestly), and more than that, the real impact on businesses and people if they somehow do pass - a major question mark. And I’ve some news for you: voters don’t like supporting something or someone with that sort of uncertainty lurking in the background. Biden’s far from a sexy candidate, but his approach is better than Bernie’s: we live under a political system that was designed for incremental change. The really successful presidents are those who recognize opportunities for steps or even small skips or hops forward, like Obama did in 2009/2010. Bernie brings passion and energy - I get that. But he’s promising his supporters the moon, and I don’t think he has a snowball’s chance in hell of delivering. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1102 "2020-02-29T23:30:12Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > This ^ and this ^ again. > > I think Bernie’s supporters don’t get it. “Yeah, well fine, they’re going to call any democrat a socialist.” > > That is true, but not every democrat calls himself a democratic socialist. Not every democrat in the race wears that on his sleeve. Not every democrat is proposing policies that, nice idea or not, represent a radical and sudden shift in the relationship between government and business, and government and people. There will come a point - probably when the pundits really and truly begin to take him seriously - when people will begin taking into consideration the likelihood of his legislation passing (not very good, honestly), and more than that, the real impact on businesses and people if they somehow do pass - a major question mark. And I’ve some news for you: voters don’t like supporting something or someone with that sort of uncertainty lurking in the background. > > Biden’s far from a sexy candidate, but his approach is better than Bernie’s: we live under a political system that was designed for incremental change. The really successful presidents are those who recognize opportunities for steps or even small skips or hops forward, like Obama did in 2009/2010. Bernie brings passion and energy - I get that. But he’s promising his supporters the moon, and I don’t think he has a snowball’s chance in hell of delivering. Biden is a pro forma candidate. It is a retreat to “safety” to vote for him, as you are admitting. Sometimes that’s not the safest choice. How does he feel like a winner when he is all about waiting for trump to “wear off” on the republcians, so that he can step in and save us and be Mr bipartisanship? You like that plan? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1103 "2020-02-29T23:41:02Z")
dp ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1104 "2020-02-29T23:41:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Typical Bernie-Bro nonsense, designed to put Trump back in Office, just liek they did in 2016. I’m simply applying the same standard to Biden that people like **SlackerInc** are applying to Bernie. If you think that’s nonsense, fine. But then so is what **Slacker** is complaining about. Which was kind of the point. > [@](#): > > Let’s just take one piece of Typical Bernie-Bro propaganda: "_Call out Biden for buddying up with segregationists and speaking at Strom Thurmond’s funeral."_ Yep- Joe, as a senior member of the Senate was called upon to give a eulogy for Thurmond. And he did what any _decent human being_ would do- he talked about the good things. Because if you _are_ a decent human beings- that’s what you do. Again, the point is to highlight the double standard between how people like **Slacker** treat Bernie and how they (and you) treat everyone else. If Bernie had eulogised someone like Gus Hall (google him), do you honestly think we’d _ever_ stop hearing about it? Of course we wouldn’t. Yet somehow it’s considered impolitic to mention that the guy who’s probably going to win the first majority Black Primary sang the praises of a segregationist? Fuck that. And by the by, eulogising the man who once proudly proclaimed that no force on Earth could _”Ever bring the South to let the nigra race into our swimming pools and theaters”_ isn’t decent. It is, in fact, terrible, and worse than anything Bernie has said in any of these scaremongering clips. > [@](#): > > Apparently, the point here is the Sanders \*\*isn’t \*\*a decent human being, but all that sez about Joe is he is a decent human being that shoulders his responsibilities (and if you actually read his eulogy, it’s pretty clear he was damning with faint praise- since faint praise is about the most anyone could muster). Joe’s responsibility was to say ‘No’. Because that’s what a decent human being would’ve done. I’ve no doubt it’s what Bernie would’ve done. And that’s just one more reason why I respect him. Because Bernie puts principle above protocol. > [@](#): > > So- thanks for telling us Biden is a decent responsible human being but Bernie isn’t. Because that’s exactly what that says. No it isn’t. That’s an incredibly stupid, blinkered, and agenda-driven misreading of both my post, and the intention behind it. > [@](#): > > And you know who "picked’ the candidate in 2016? The voters. So apparently the Bernie-bros dont like democracy either. Sadly, there were more people in 2016 who thought Hillary could beat Trump than there were people who thought Bernie could beat Trump. Those people were wrong. They need to own their error. The way they do that is by shutting the fuck up for a minute and being humble. > [@](#): > > They want us to ignore what the people want, and go with whom they want. Maybe that mean Bernie is a commie after all, I guess is what they are saying. No. You have, _very_ predictably, completely misunderstood what I was saying. I state, clearly and unequivocally, that under the rules established by the DNC, Hillary Clinton won the Democratic nomination for President in 2016 fair and square? D’you get that? Good. Now, here’s the point: _The people who picked her chose possibly the only politician in America capable of losing to Donald Frigging Trump_. For _this_ reason, those people should think twice before they deign to lecture the rest of us about who is and who isn’t “electable”. Because they _clearly_ have no fucking idea what that word means. > [@](#): > > And bernie-bros wonder why we dont like Bernie- _this_ is the reason. **YOU** are the reason Dems dont like bernie. It’s a stupid reason and you should be ashamed of yourself for holding it. And Bernie’s won three of the last four Primaries so it seems to me that plenty of Dems do like him. > [@](#): > > Congrats, you just lost bernie a bunch of votes- and picked up a few for trump. I didn’t lose anyone Jack shit. This is a tiny message board that no-one reads. Get a grip. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1105 "2020-02-29T23:46:49Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Biden is a pro forma candidate. It is a retreat to “safety” to vote for him, as you are admitting. Sometimes that’s not the safest choice. > > How does he feel like a winner when he is all about waiting for trump to “wear off” on the republcians, so that he can step in and save us and be Mr bipartisanship? You like that plan? As I said, I acknowledge his shortcomings as a campaigner, and I agree with you that no Democrat is going to have much success with bipartisanship unless the general public completely sours on republicans and the dems as a party become really popular - not likely, I agree. I wish there was a candidate out there that had the secret sauce. There just isn’t any right now. But of the candidates that have the best opportunity to close the argument in favor of dumping Trump, it’s the occasionally loopy elder who people remember once as a vice president. I had thought until very recently that Bloomberg would be the best chance, but I admit that I didn’t see his disastrous debate performances coming. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1106 "2020-02-29T23:51:20Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > This may not be a great political strategy, but it’s not the disaster you’re making it out to be. The idea seems to be to treat generous stock options as income for people who are already making a good salary. You also didn’t mention that the tax would only apply to vested options above $100,000 per year. The first $100,000 is tax exempt. So while I’m not fond of the plan, someone receiving, say, $200,000 in vested stock options in a year in addition to a decent salary would not suffer too much hardship if they had to sell some of it to cover income taxes on half of it. But I’m sure this will upset a fair number of supporters in places like Silicon Valley who would be directly affected. You are missing the point. This person has 200,000 in vested stock. They pay, let’s say, 70,000 in taxes on it. The next day the stock goes to 0. They now have 0 dollars in vested stock that they paid 70,000 in taxes on. That’s just an entirely stupid policy and I don’t take seriously the intentions of any candidate who proposes it. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1107 "2020-02-29T23:57:50Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > As I said, I acknowledge his shortcomings as a campaigner, and I agree with you that no Democrat is going to have much success with bipartisanship unless the general public completely sours on republicans and the dems as a party become really popular - not likely, I agree. > > I wish there was a candidate out there that had the secret sauce. There just isn’t any right now. But of the candidates that have the best opportunity to close the argument in favor of dumping Trump, it’s the occasionally loopy elder who people remember once as a vice president. I had thought until very recently that Bloomberg would be the best chance, but I admit that I didn’t see his disastrous debate performances coming. What do you want Biden to do if trump stalks him on the debate stage? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1108 "2020-03-01T00:00:15Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > This ^ and this ^ again. > > I think Bernie’s supporters don’t get it. “Yeah, well fine, they’re going to call any democrat a socialist.” > > That is true, but not every democrat calls himself a democratic socialist. Not every democrat in the race wears that on his sleeve … 1. As I already noted, the idea is not entirely crazy and has precedent in tax law. It only applies on the excess over $100,000 if more than that is vested in any single year for a high-salaried individual. I worked for companies that gave out stock options and I’ve never received anything even close to that. But I agree it’s one of those ideas that Bernie should probably drop, and concentrate on tax rates and loopholes that benefit corporations and the very wealthy. 2. Bernie needs to stop calling himself a socialist, especially heading into the general campaign. I’ve never heard him explicitly call himself a “democratic socialist” but he’d better put a stop to that, too. There’s a big difference between a social democracy (what most advanced western countries are) and democratic socialism, as only the former relies on capitalism to drive its economy. Bernie is a social democrat, which in practice means leaving most of the economy as it is but providing much greater social services and health care. 3. I was initially a strong Biden supporter but his lackluster performance has been disappointing. What does Biden stand for? Aside from bringing integrity and sanity back to the White House, I’d be hard-pressed to come up with specific policies without looking it up. Whereas everyone knows what Bernie stands for, and it seems to be resonating with voters. Despite my skepticism, I note that RCP has him about 4.7 points ahead of Trump. That’s not a very big margin, however, and the Trump-style attacks haven’t even started yet. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1109 "2020-03-01T00:02:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If all the polls showed one candidate doing significantly better that the others against Trump, nationally or in swing states, then I’d reconsider my electability estimate that currently has Bernie on top… Did they ever do the type of Trump vs Sanders poll I told them to? Where, before checking a box, the pollee watches a 15-minute lying rant against Sanders? (Voters in the real November election will be faced with the worst lying propaganda campaign in history.) The enemy are already ranting their hardest against Biden, while playing Sanders with kid gloves. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Negative campaigning, including bringing up past writings and assertions, is good for the party and will, ultimately, give us a stronger candidate. I will rebut the criticisms of my favored candidate (Bernie) that I think are wrongheaded, but I think it’s good for the Bernie campaign and the party in general to bring these potential lines of attack now, since they’ll certainly be brought up later if he becomes the nominee. All true … except for the “certainly be brought up later” part. The intelligent and truthful objections being raised against Sanders — however damning in the minds of millions of Americans(\*) — are NOT the objections that will be raised by the Putin-Hannity axis after Sanders is the nominee. Those attacks will be exaggerated caricatures of the more truthful objections; shrieked with all possible scariness and with a budget of many dozens of millions of dollars. The anti-Bernie slurs will be so over-the-top that even grand-daddies will be Googling Politifacts, but may see “Mostly True.” :smack: The tirade of Lies and Hatred we will witness in the late Summer and early Autumn will astonish even the most jaded of us. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1110 "2020-03-01T00:35:29Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > 1. As I already noted, the idea is not entirely crazy and has precedent in tax law. It only applies on the excess over $100,000 if more than that is vested in any single year for a high-salaried individual. I worked for companies that gave out stock options and I’ve never received anything even close to that. But I agree it’s one of those ideas that Bernie should probably drop, and concentrate on tax rates and loopholes that benefit corporations and the very wealthy. I don’t care if it only applies to 10,000,000. The type of person who would suggest that anyone in this country should pay taxes on any money at all that they don’t have is not one that I can support. The whole point of these stock options is to get more individual employee ownership of the companies that they work for. The fact that this is aimed squarely at people who are working their asses off at startup companies and the like means that Bernie is not a candidate I can support as perhaps he is closer to what the Republicans portray him as than what I’m comfortable with. If it is Bernie vs. Trump, I will have a big problem. ---
**Author:** ![Warm\_blood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Warm\_blood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Warm_blood)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1111 "2020-03-01T00:45:52Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Did you miss the part where I said that much of **Sam** ’s post was “a great deal of exaggeration and nonsense”? He follows the alternative medicine quote with the comment “_This is a guy who thinks he kmows how to completely redesign American Health Care. Get ready for your government-paid-for nonsense medicine._” This would have one believe that if Bernie is elected, US health care will consist entirely of homeopathy, acupuncture, and 17th century witchcraft. Whereas the actual facts are that Bernie has visited Canadian hospitals, spoken with Canadian medical professionals, admires the Canadian system, and wants to make the Medicare for All look something like it, within the constraints of existing American institutions. > > This should include, IMHO, partnering with the existing private health insurers subject to strict regulation to achieve the cost goals and universality of M4A. If health insurers find the regulations too onerous, then they’re free to find some other line of business that is less regulated than human health care. Maybe they can get into the pet insurance business. Or, with rising sea levels, flood insurance would be a good business, and in the typical style of health insurers, they could have fine print that says that living within 100 miles of a coastline is a “pre-existing condition” so you’re not covered, sorry, sucks to be you. Ok, I don’t recall quoting any of your posts though. :dubious: Whatever is and isn’t exaggeration, if it just _seems_ salacious, it’s sufficient to use as a cudgel against an opponent in a campaign. Who would’ve thunk an email server with no scandalous contents would sink a presidential hopeful? Sounds too stupid to be plausible, right? But it did. Please stop thinking Sanders can’t get hurt the same way because of how amazing his platform is. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1112 "2020-03-01T00:57:44Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I don’t care if it only applies to 10,000,000. The type of person who would suggest that anyone in this country should pay taxes on any money at all that they don’t have is not one that I can support. The whole point of these stock options is to get more individual employee ownership of the companies that they work for. The fact that this is aimed squarely at people who are working their asses off at startup companies and the like means that Bernie is not a candidate I can support as perhaps he is closer to what the Republicans portray him as than what I’m comfortable with. > > If it is Bernie vs. Trump, I will have a big problem. I don’t want to keep arguing about this since we both agree it isn’t a great idea and furthermore I don’t think it’s that big a deal. People working their asses off at startups may be collateral damage in this regulation, but that’s not who it’s aimed squarely at – it’s aimed at executives at large companies building up astronomically huge retirement funds. It wouldn’t be hard to carve out an exception for startups and smaller companies. And yes, I do understand the point, but as I said, taxes on putative income that you don’t actually have is not unprecedented. You could equally be paying taxes on putative interest on a strip bond, and then have the company go under prior to maturity so that the certificate isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. And if someone is worried about the stability of their stock options, they could estimate their marginal tax rate and sell enough to cover it on the day that it vested, which is presumably when the IRS values it. Then if the stock goes south, they’ve lost potential gains, but haven’t lost any actual personal money. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1113 "2020-03-01T01:17:28Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Nobody in this thread is bringing up any lies or misinformation. And although you may think that some of the things that Bernie said 40 years ago are “meaningless crap” they are thinks which will resonate with voters. > > Like taking his honeymoon in the Soviet Union. Sure, you can say that it was a business trip that just happened to occur directly after his wedding, and that explanation may satisfy you. But how it is wrong to bring it up as a negative that will impact many swing voters? Unreconstructed Man:\*“…Biden for buddying up with segregationists…” \* Sure they are- and so? Why bring them up again? Why help re-elect trump? Because that’s all they do. Look, suppose someone came to you with a terrible rumor about a friend. You had already heard something about it. Is the right thing to do : Spread the rumor, tell everyone, after all, the cat is out of the bag! Or Keep your damned mouth shut and not spread rumors. I dont give a rats ass if bernie honeymooned in Russia or anything else bernie or biden or bloomberg did decades ago. Old news. Why help trump by spreading scurrilous rumors? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1114 "2020-03-01T01:20:23Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Because going to the Soviet Union with a 12-person delegation to establish a sister-city relationship between Burlington and Yaroslavl as a gesture of goodwill was not a honeymoon and should not be falsely presented as a negative. His wife was there in her official capacity as the director of the Mayor’s Youth Office. The couple had an actual honeymoon the following year, in St. Lucia in the Caribbean. The only way this will negatively affect swing voters is if it’s misrepresented, the way it consistently has been in right-wing media. Let’s assume for the purposes of argument that you are right and this trip is “misrepresented.” The fact of the matter then remains that it will be misrepresented to swing voters in the general election. It will be told to swing voters that he travelled to the Soviet Union directly after his wedding and he is on video getting drunk with Soviet Communists. That is true. You can explain it by saying what you did, but it plays right into the narrative that he is a closet communist, along with his praise of Castro. Why did Burlington choose a sister city in the Soviet Union? Why not one in England or Germany or France or any non-communist country? The inference will be that Comrade Bernie chose it to give him an opportunity to visit and so Burlington could “learn” from their sister city. No poster on this board is giving the RNC any ideas. This will happen. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1115 "2020-03-01T01:36:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why help trump by spreading scurrilous rumors? As they say at Wikipedia, this is not original research. Taking your comment seriously, having message boards which are echo chambers for one side doesn’t hurt the other. All it does is insure that people from the other side won’t ever see it. I advise reading [Why We’re Polarized](https://search.overdrive.com/media/4848523/why-were-polarized). Then, I don’t see the fact that Bernie was sympathetic to non-Stalinist communism, well into adulthood, to be a scurrilous rumor. It makes me question his judgment and means I’d vote against him almost regardless of opponent (Donald Trump being the almost here). ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1116 "2020-03-01T01:54:44Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I don’t want to keep arguing about this since we both agree it isn’t a great idea and furthermore I don’t think it’s that big a deal. People working their asses off at startups may be collateral damage in this regulation, but that’s not who it’s aimed squarely at – it’s aimed at executives at large companies building up astronomically huge retirement funds. It wouldn’t be hard to carve out an exception for startups and smaller companies. I disagree that this isn’t a big deal. I just started up my own company (not hypothetical). A biotech therapeutic company, actually. Myself and other the other founders are paid in nothing (no salary) but stock options until we raise series A financing. I am not an executive building up astronomical anything. We have nothing to offer any other people we are bringing on right now except stock options. Everyone joining up believes in what we are all doing, and wants to be a part of it and to own a part of it. If this were to pass, our company would be done a minute later. Nobody I know starting a company could survive this, and it is not just collateral damage. This is my point. Sanders isn’t just opposed to generational wealth. He appears opposed to anybody trying to make significant money at all. I have no problem with people getting rich. The problem is people handing down wealth. Bernie’s own policies are not something I can support and this is a prime example of it. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1117 "2020-03-01T06:34:58Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > … The type of person who would suggest that anyone in this country should pay taxes on any money at all that they don’t have is not one that I can support… > > If it is Bernie vs. Trump, I will have a big problem. Oh no. _ **Please!** _ Bernie, whatever his faults and however bad his ideas, is a good-spirited man. _ **His most left-wing ideas will never pass Congress** , even if the majority of Ds are on-board._ Compare this with Donald Trump who is doing huge damage even without GOP complicity (encouraging Americans’ racism, revealing secrets to Putin); and is now the leader of a Party which is fully on-board for a program of Lies, Racism, and Stealing from the public treasury. Suppose you’re in the market for a pet. You want a fluffy Persian cat but such is not available. Your only two choices are a mangy dog, stupid but loyal; and a poisonous centipede with a taste for human flesh. Do you really pick the centipede? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1118 "2020-03-01T07:08:25Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Because going to the Soviet Union with a 12-person delegation to establish a sister-city relationship between Burlington and Yaroslavl as a gesture of goodwill was not a honeymoon and should not be falsely presented as a negative. His wife was there in her official capacity as the director of the Mayor’s Youth Office. The couple had an actual honeymoon the following year, in St. Lucia in the Caribbean. The only way this will negatively affect swing voters is if it’s misrepresented, the way it consistently has been in right-wing media. Bernie called it a “very strange honeymoon” in his book. Jane has referred to it as a “honeymoon” as well. When George Will said in 2015 that they honeymooned in the Soviet Union, PolitiFact rated the claim Mostly True: [PolitiFact | George Will describes Bernie Sanders' Soviet Union honeymoon](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/aug/12/george-will/george-will-reminds-readers-about-bernie-sanders-u/) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1119 "2020-03-01T13:52:13Z")
FiveThirtyEight on how there are maybe more “Biden bros” than “Bernie bros” (though the numbers of Bernie bros are understated, because the survey only included over-thirty-year-olds, since it tracks a group of specific voters over the past eight years): > **[Voters Who’ll Support Biden — But Not Sanders — Probably Really Do Mean It](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/voters-wholl-support-biden-but-not-sanders-probably-really-do-mean-it/)** > > Joe Biden’s prospects for winning the Democratic nomination have waned after both the former vice president’s disappointing fourth and fifth place finishes in I… So, another reason to nominate Biden. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/1120 "2020-03-01T13:56:34Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I disagree that this isn’t a big deal. I just started up my own company (not hypothetical). A biotech therapeutic company, actually. Myself and other the other founders are paid in nothing (no salary) but stock options until we raise series A financing. I am not an executive building up astronomical anything. We have nothing to offer any other people we are bringing on right now except stock options. Everyone joining up believes in what we are all doing, and wants to be a part of it and to own a part of it. > > If this were to pass, our company would be done a minute later. Nobody I know starting a company could survive this, and it is not just collateral damage. > > This is my point. Sanders isn’t just opposed to generational wealth. He appears opposed to anybody trying to make significant money at all. I have no problem with people getting rich. The problem is people handing down wealth. Bernie’s own policies are not something I can support and this is a prime example of it. Look on the bright side: Sanders won’t get any of that passed and he’d quickly become a lame-duck president. Of course, that’s a problem in its own right. But at least his policies wouldn’t sink your business. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=57)