# Why don't you support Bernie Sanders? (if you don't) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632 "2019-06-17T02:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/121 "2019-06-18T13:11:00Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > You make comparisons to Europe’s parties of the Left. > > You realize they also have a rise of nationalist and fascist parties of the Right I think it’s more so the rise of authoritarianism. Democracy historically suicides it’s self, the reich is simply a symptom of inequality. How about we address those in power and hold them accountable, instead of havng a lackluster argument about how we shouldn’t kill the king, I’ll say this again, fuck the king. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/122 "2019-06-18T14:06:02Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > But as usual, nobody wants to argue against sanders policies or proposals, they’re too populist. Instead they argue against the man himself, too old, too white, too heterosexual, too male. You keep saying this, as though Sanders is the only one who wants to raise taxes and improve our social services. Among the candidates, we are taking about variations of Coke, Pepsi, and maybe Dr. Pepper at the most extreme. You keep painting it like it’s a choice between one glass of fine wine and 20 glasses of pee. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/123 "2019-06-18T14:37:32Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I think the message that moderate Democrats cannot win votes from socialists, populists, nor the anti-war vote is strategically necessary. If the party of “the left” does not nominate someone who can pull in that broad category called “the left” then they can’t win. > > Both [Brad DeLong](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/4/18246381/democrats-clinton-sanders-left-brad-delong) and [Peter Daou](https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/1138569634184073218) have been making this point lately. The moderates need the progressives, and need to concede to the progressives, and even _need to let the Bernie types lead,_ in order not to lose to the hard right. I guess what I don’t understand is why this argument doesn’t work in both directions. I mean, it is trivially true that the moderates need the progressives in order to win in the general… but isn’t it equally, if not more, true that the progressives need the moderates in order to win in the general? And if it is true - _and it is_ - that both sides need one another in order to win, then whence the argument that Side A should just completely concede to Side B? This makes no sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/124 "2019-06-18T14:42:05Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You keep saying this, as though Sanders is the only one who wants to raise taxes and improve our social services. > > Among the candidates, we are taking about variations of Coke, Pepsi, and maybe Dr. Pepper at the most extreme. You keep painting it like it’s a choice between one glass of fine wine and 20 glasses of pee. Yes. This is especially true since Congress will need to approve any legislation. In fact, as I suggested above, the more _moderate_ President may have a _better_ chance of getting a _radical_ agenda passed. I’m dismayed that Bernie supporters and other progressives do not understand this. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/125 "2019-06-18T14:57:44Z")
To be fair many, maybe most, do. The position of the op is nonzero but not the norm. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/126 "2019-06-18T15:28:09Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > That’s some pretty bold claims about Bernie being a sexist. But let’s assume everything you said is true, does that in anyway shape or form take away from the bills hes proposed? Such as M4A or SS expansion, or making stock buy backs illegal? OR what about the proposals he’s made, such as legalizing drugs, raising minimum wage, free college tuition? > > Attacking Bernie isn’t going to get you very far, just like running on attacking Trump didn’t get hillary very far. You asked why…and I’m telling you why. Each of those claims can be backed up with a google search. It isn’t hard. Go for it. > [@](#): > > You will vote for Bernie Sanders and you will like it. Actually I won’t. I won’t vote for him. I’m under no obligation to do so, and I will not vote for anyone I think is morally repugnant. If that means I say home and vote for neither Trump or Sanders, that is what I will do. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/127 "2019-06-18T15:35:12Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > 1. Party. He’s not a Democrat. I’m all for a ‘big tent’ but I don’t think it unreasonable to ask the person running for the nomination of a political party to be a member of that political party, and Sanders refuses to do so while still trying to win that position. It’s not a good message and Sanders hasn’t addressed it in any way that didn’t come across as wanting to have his cake and eat it too. That said, I’m not a Democrat either - but then I’m not running for office under their banner. This is my reason for not supporting him in the primaries. He only wants to be part of the group when the group can help him get a big job. If he had stayed with the Dems after 2016, I’d have a different opinion, but he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/128 "2019-06-18T15:49:43Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This is my reason for not supporting him in the primaries. > > He only wants to be part of the group when the group can help him get a big job. If he had stayed with the Dems after 2016, I’d have a different opinion, but he didn’t. Its one of my big reasons for not supporting him at all. I find it offensively unethical to demand that a group support you, but do not return the loyalty. Its narcissistic, and we have one of those in office. We need a public servant, not a self absorbed egoist. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/129 "2019-06-18T15:53:40Z")
Oh, and he’s had plenty of chances in government to actually write those bills, sponsor them and build the support he needs to get them to the floor in his many years in Congress. Why, when he had (has) the power to create legislation, did he not create this legislation and move it forward? Why should we believe he will do so when he is President - a position that does not have the power to create legislation? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/130 "2019-06-18T17:14:52Z")
**Barack Obama** , may I ask what state you live in? And if it’s not too personal, what Congressional district? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/131 "2019-06-18T18:02:55Z")
Lets not forget what a vile shitbag Sanders was after it was clear he wasn’t going to get the nomination. He continued his scorched earth rhetoric even after the last primary! Take it to the convention!!! Superdelegates haven’t voted yet, let’s harass them into voting for the candidate who got fewer votes in the primaries. He kept his secret service protection for at least a month after the last primary votes were cast. He was around around for Nader, he can’t be so stupid as to not know that giving all those college kids false hope would lead to third party votes, write ins, or just staying home and pouting. As I’ve mentioned before, it’s the equivalent of having your heart broken after breaking up with a boyfriend or girlfriend, and that one false friend keeps ripping the wound open by constantly telling you who they saw your ex with last weekend. Bernie had to know that it was going to take time for his most fervent supporters to accept voting for Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/132 "2019-06-18T18:07:16Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Man, I hope you didn’t think that was going to make anyone more inclined to vote for Sanders. I have great doubts as to his motives, in fact i dont think he wants anyone to vote for \*any \*Democratic candidate, including Sanders. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/133 "2019-06-18T18:24:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > How’s attacking the Democratic Party been working out for you? > … > You asked the question. We answered it. Just because you don’t like the answers doesn’t make us wrong. It worked very well for the kremlin in 2016, why not try the same tactic? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/134 "2019-06-18T18:37:07Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I think the message that moderate Democrats cannot win votes from socialists, populists, nor the anti-war vote is strategically necessary. If the party of “the left” does not nominate someone who can pull in that broad category called “the left” then they can’t win. > > Both [Brad DeLong](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/4/18246381/democrats-clinton-sanders-left-brad-delong) and [Peter Daou](https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/1138569634184073218) have been making this point lately. The moderates need the progressives, and need to concede to the progressives, and even _need to let the Bernie types lead,_ in order not to lose to the hard right. It’s a false message. With the exception of the 2016 election the opposite has been true. Some strange things happened in that election, like the Comey letter, and the interference of the kremlin. The Comey letter wont happen again. Yes, the kremlin and GOP trolls will attempt to divide the Democratic party, in fact they are doing it now, as we speak. But Facebook and voters are more aware and wise. Sure, some will be taken in, and feed the trolls, pass their crap along, but not like 2016. However, just like in 2016, the Moderates do have to bend to the progressives- which they did by putting most of Bernies ideas in as planks in their platform. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/135 "2019-06-18T18:44:16Z")
(I’m from the UK, so I don’t get to vote.) However Trump is a disaster not only for the US, but also for the rest of the World. For example we have an election here + now in which the leading candidate (Boris Johnson) is a lying incompetent. But he uses Trump-like tactics to get ahead. :smack: So by all means adopt Sander’s policies if they are a) useful and b) justifiable. But I don’t think he’s the actual politician to run against Trump. And if you’re a Sanders’ supporter who won’t support any other candidate for the Democratic nomination, shame on you. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/136 "2019-06-18T18:46:42Z")
[quote=“thorny\_locust, post:119, topic:835632”] But running on attacking Hillary got Trump elected. …/QUOTE] Yep. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/137 "2019-06-18T18:48:30Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You keep saying this, as though Sanders is the only one who wants to raise taxes and improve our social services. > > Among the candidates, we are taking about variations of Coke, Pepsi, and maybe Dr. Pepper at the most extreme. You keep painting it like it’s a choice between one glass of fine wine and 20 glasses of pee. Oh no, the difference between any Dem candidate and trump is the \* choice between one glass of fine wine and 20 glasses of pee\*. But true, the Dem candidates are fairly close. ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/138 "2019-06-18T19:50:52Z")
While I like Bernie and appreciate his progressive stances, I feel that at this point the country needs to be pulled back to center after it’s very hard right turn into weirdness. I’d like to see Joe run with a progressive VP pick, like Mayor Pete. I think Pete could stand to get more practical experience in the major league and Joe could use someone with a fresh perspective close to his ears. Best to leave the progressive firebrands like Bernie and Waters in the Senate where they can probably make more of a difference than they would as President. Beto should actually win something else first before trying on the “daddy pants”. Kamala, bless her heart, seems to have almost as much charisma as Joe Friday. That said, I’d rejoice in any one of them over what we have presently. Now, if you’ll excuse me I have to use the Trump. ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/139 "2019-06-18T20:19:27Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > I don’t think they would be worse, but I’m not going to vote for them. And thats not why trump won, trump won because the DNC pushed their personal favorite candidate despite the American people appearing to want Bernie instead. That’s what happens when you force something down our throats, we refuse and say fuck you. > > And nah I think I’ll stay registered to vote dem, so I can change the party to represent the american people instead of corporations. Hopefully centrists in washington living in their bubble learned their lesson, if not we can do 4 more years of this until it gets through their heads Americans had enough of the status quo. I agree that the DNC stacked the deck against Bernie last time around. Whether or not that gave Trump the election is debatable. Hillary took Ohio and Pennsylvania for granted and found out they were not. That, as much as anything else probably tipped the scale in Dump’s favor. Bernie did not play well among black voters. If he had the nomination enough of them might have stayed home feeling that they were not invested in the election. That might have given Dumpster the nod as well. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/140 "2019-06-18T20:30:25Z")
> [@TimfromNapa](#): > > I agree that the DNC stacked the deck against Bernie last time around. … Nope. At best they gave her a tiny edge in a couple debates. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=8)