# Why don't you support Bernie Sanders? (if you don't) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632 "2019-06-17T02:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/141 "2019-06-18T20:58:25Z")
He borrowed Trump’s argument of the elections being rigged against him in the primaries last time. And he seems to be borrowing the concept of being against identity politics (under the right wing definition) this time. The second I heard about that, he lost me for good. He became my “hold your nose and vote” candidate if he were to win the nomination. Sorry, but you don’t deal with your problem reaching out to non-white voters by declaring the other people not to matter. And that is what the attack on “identity politics” is. It decries the idea of black people having concerns that cause them to vote together. It decries the idea of gay people having concerns that cause them to vote together. And it ironically only really appeals to one identity group: the cishet white male, for whom identity isn’t actually important. “Identity politics” actually means “people with commonalities in social groups will tend to have the same issues, and thus come together as a political block.” It’s normal. They have issues, and they’ll vote on those issues, which will generally mean voting for the same candidate. The only real contradiction is intersectionalism, which points out that people actually have multiple identities, and how they intersect will influence their issues, and thus how they vote. You can’t assume the whole will be the sum of the parts. The only meaning I can come up with for the derogatory “identity politics” is simply that “those stupid nonwhite people don’t vote right!” With Bernie supporting that, he’s not really a progressive at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/142 "2019-06-18T21:05:04Z")
Primarily, I don’t like his trade policies and he’s too old. I’d still vote for him over Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/143 "2019-06-18T23:35:56Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > **Barack Obama** , may I ask what state you live in? And if it’s not too personal, what Congressional district? SC 1st district, we flipped blue from sanford because Trump supported some lady who wouldn’t reject his intentions to drill off our shores. So sanford lost to her, then she lost to the dem joe cunningham, because of that off-shore drilling crap. Yes, I’ve voted for Sanford. and yeah if you look it up, he did cheat on his wife using tax payer money. He was still a good rep. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/144 "2019-06-18T23:38:28Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Primarily, I don’t like his trade policies and he’s too old. I’d still vote for him over Trump. You support exporting 800,000 jobs to Mexico and US workers competing with mexican workers? That was the one thing Trump could have done right, was tear up NAFTA. Too bad he played ball with the establishment despite running as a populist. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/145 "2019-06-18T23:58:53Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The only meaning I can come up with for the derogatory “identity politics” is simply that “those stupid nonwhite people don’t vote right!” With Bernie supporting that, he’s not really a progressive at all. Part of the reason women and minorities don’t like him is that he tends to be a patronizing jackass - this line of thought is not new to him “if we only were as smart as he was, we’d see…” I can’t begin to tell you how offensive I find this. He tend to see all issues as economic issues, downplaying - well usually ignoring - problems of racism and sexism and homophobia and pretty much anything else that doesn’t tie into his belief that its all economics. That is NOT what we need. We need people who are at least willing to acknowledge the issues we have with racism and sexism in our country - because there aren’t easy solutions to the -isms - but there is no solution that involves ignoring them and hoping that if we raise the minimum wage, people will give a qualified guy named Devoh’n an interview or promote Madisyn who just got married without considering if she might have a baby in the next year and leave the company or not find a reason to lay off the accountant who used to be Steve but is now Rachel. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/146 "2019-06-19T00:52:59Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Yes, I’ve voted for Sanford. and yeah if you look it up, he did cheat on his wife using tax payer money. He was still a good rep. Wait now. You happily voted for Mark Sanford, who was one of the strongest opponents of government spending (including trying to decline a billion dollars in Obama’s stimulus funds that were to be spent in your state); and you have the fucking nerve to criticize people who vote for centrist Democrats? Is this some kind a dumb joke? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/147 "2019-06-19T01:00:05Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > You support exporting 800,000 jobs to Mexico and US workers competing with mexican workers? I support you and the government keeping your noses out of who I decide to trade with. Seeing that we’ve created (net) 40 million jobs since then, you might want to try a different angle. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/148 "2019-06-19T01:00:24Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > On the contrary he further expands the progressive wing as it grows. I love the hesitance to change, hope you don’t consider yourself a liberal. Uh, right, because when was the last time a left-wing progressive candidate won the White House? How’s that working for you? Oh, let’s go ask Walter Mondale… :rolleyes: So basically, this thread isn’t an attempt to find out why people aren’t supporting your guy. It’s a thinly disguised attempt to tell everyone what they already know: that you like Bernie and won’t vote for anyone less liberal than him. How silly of me to think you actually wanted to engage in true discussion. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/149 "2019-06-19T01:59:15Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > I grew up in a conservative household and have voted for more Republicans than I have democrats (2-1). I’ve talked to a lot of people of different ideologies, I spend most of my time talking to people in fact. I hold libertarian positions, conservative positions, liberal positions, and progressive positions. I’ve also been offered to help work on the Trump campaign if that floats your boat. How I got into that position is irrelevant to this topic but if you want to address me personally, you might want to find out who I am before making assumptions about me. Oh, I think I know enough about you to make some assumptions. I don’t believe you’re a progressive. I don’t believe you’re a socialist. I don’t believe you took the user name **Barack Obama** with anything resembling any sort of admiration for the man or even the respect due any human being. > [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > SC 1st district, we flipped blue from sanford because Trump supported some lady who wouldn’t reject his intentions to drill off our shores. So sanford lost to her, then she lost to the dem joe cunningham, because of that off-shore drilling crap. > > Yes, I’ve voted for Sanford. and yeah if you look it up, he did cheat on his wife using tax payer money. He was still a good rep. ’ So you live in a state that has been solidly red in presidential elections, and a Congressional district that was solidly Republican from 1981-2019, and you voted for the Republican in 2018. Okay, you’ve proved your Bernie Bro credentials to me. You go right on and fight the good fight for Sanders, and don’t vote for any Democratic candidate because you have your principles. And the rest of us on the board will know exactly what your politics are and how important your opinion is. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/150 "2019-06-19T03:08:26Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > iirc wages have stagnated(declined) since 1970s when Reagan legalized them. > If I’m missing something please let me know, I’m also not saying stock buy backs are the ultimate factor, but they’re a significant factor. Reagan didn’t even become President until 1981. As far as I know, stock repurchases have _never_ been illegal. Do you have evidence to the contrary? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/151 "2019-06-19T03:29:34Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Reagan didn’t even become President until 1981. > > As far as I know, stock repurchases have _never_ been illegal. Do you have evidence to the contrary? I work in the industry. As far as I know, no, it has never been illegal. Remember how cute it used to be to get your kid one share of McDonald’s or Disney back when you could get stock certificates? Those things are a pain in the butt for the company transfer agent to deal with and they have always looked to get those odd lots off their books. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/152 "2019-06-19T07:29:02Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > I guess what I don’t understand is why this argument doesn’t work in both directions. I mean, it is trivially true that the moderates need the progressives in order to win in the general… but isn’t it equally, if not more, true that the progressives need the moderates in order to win in the general? And if it is true - _and it is_ - that both sides need one another in order to win, then whence the argument that Side A should just completely concede to Side B? This makes no sense to me. Part of the reason is that so-called moderate Democrats really don’t represent the interests of potential Democratic Party voters. The electorate like high wages and free healthcare, to put it crassly. Another reason is that moderation is, in itself, hard to get campaign workers excited about. Almost no one’s going to be inspired to volunteer without pay for someone who’s all about giving in to the Republicans. Obama was an attractive politician who was a moderate. But his moderation was only a selling point to some of us; many voters wanted him to be more radical. And the final reason (and I think this was Brad DeLong’s point, more or less) is that Clinton/Obama moderation, by definition, requires a cooperation from across the aisle that just isn’t there anymore, not since 2010 at least. Why pursue a political strategy that gets you beat up and nothing more? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/153 "2019-06-19T07:36:57Z")
As I understand it, if you go where the votes are, you probably have to give the people a living wage and Medicare for All. Or, alternatively, you would have to go super-isolationist xenophobe like Trump is. If you want any rights for immigrants at all, you have to go full Bernie or lose. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/154 "2019-06-19T07:59:48Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > … It’s a thinly disguised attempt to tell everyone what they already know: that you like Bernie and won’t vote for anyone less liberal than him. Don’t you mean “anyone less liberal than him _ **with the exception of Mark Sanford** _” ? > [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > If I’m missing something please let me know, I’m also not saying stock buy backs are the ultimate factor, but they’re a significant factor. I have my own opinion about stock buybacks. I’m curious why YOU, **Barack Obama** , think they should be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/155 "2019-06-19T14:55:26Z")
He’s too old, and has almost nothing to show for his long service in the House and Senate other than grumpy speeches. The GOP will crucify him for his (democratic) socialism, his honeymoon in Soviet Moscow and his flirtations with the Sandinistas. He’s too hard-left for the kind of voters we need to win back from Trump. And here’s a letter I sent the last time around: \*Dear Bernie 2016 campaign: I got your recent fundraising letter, but I must admit I’m puzzled. Is your candidate, the one now seeking the Democratic Party’s nomination for President, the same guy who in 1985 said, “I am not now, nor have I ever been, a liberal Democrat”? Who in 1988 said, “I am not a Democrat, period,” and dubbed Michael Dukakis “the lesser of two evils”? The man who in 1989 called for the creation of a third major party? Who said in 1990 that it would be “hypocritical” of him to run as a Democrat, and that he was “extremely proud to be an Independent”? Can this be the very same man who in 2011 called for someone to run against President Obama in the Democratic primaries, and who has over the course of his political career never called himself a Democrat before now? Who has run against Vermont Democrats no fewer than 14 times over the course of his career? The one who told Vermont Affairs that the Democratic Party is “ideologically bankrupt”? Who said that “there is essentially no difference between the major parties”? Could it actually be the guy who told Progressive magazine as recently as two years ago, “I am not a Democrat because the Democratic Party does not represent, and has not for many years, the interests of my constituency, which is primarily working families, middle-class people and low-income people”? That Bernie Sanders? Yeah. Thought so. No, thanks.\* I noticed that, after he didn’t get the presidential nomination in 2016, he went back to describing himself on his US Senate website as an Independent. If you’re going to be a Democrat, great, be a Democrat. Welcome aboard! But don’t call yourself a Democrat just in years when you think you might win the party’s top prize, and then say you’re not anymore. That’s just political opportunism. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/156 "2019-06-19T15:15:45Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > But don’t call yourself a Democrat just in years when you think you might win the party’s top prize, and then say you’re not anymore. That’s just political opportunism. But he has such consistent ideals! He’s not like those other guys who only takes a stance when it’s politically convenient! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/157 "2019-06-19T15:17:51Z")
Yeah, it’s easy to keep your hands clean if you’re not getting any work done. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/158 "2019-06-19T17:23:35Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > But he has such consistent ideals! He’s not like those other guys who only takes a stance when it’s politically convenient! Pft, it’s not like he completely changed his mind on superdelegates when they were his only road to victory! That, his crying about the DNC temporarily locking his campaign out after it was caught stealing voter information, and his “here today, gone tomorrow” stance on the Democratic Party are the three reasons I find him to be a terrible choice to lead the nation. Which sucks, because with some definite plans and study, he might have some really great ideas. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/159 "2019-06-19T19:07:25Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yeah, it’s easy to keep your hands clean if you’re not getting any work done. Yeah, unlike those effective dirty politicians, who have done wonders for the people of the USA. When was the last one of those? 1973? That excuse for the modern Dem leadership holds no water. Clinton Democrats are called “corporate” to be nice, but I guess we mean “corrupt.” The ones in power haven’t actually _addressed_ oligopoly or wage stagnation. This may have influenced the “brick through the window” rationale of a fraction of Trump voters. Bernie may be a goober, despised by the party, but he’s at least another brick. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632/160 "2019-06-19T19:10:16Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > don’t call yourself a Democrat just in years when you think you might win the party’s top prize, and then say you’re not anymore. That’s just political opportunism. Well, there’s no realistic way for an independent/3rd-partier to win the presidency. At a certain point you have to do what you have to do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-you-support-bernie-sanders-if-you-dont/835632.md?page=9)