# Why eleven? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 15, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666 "2014-11-15T02:40:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/1 "2014-11-15T02:40:39Z")
Why do we use the term “eleven” for this number-11? We have “twenty two”, “thirty three”, “forty four” and so on, so whatever happened to “onety one”? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/2 "2014-11-15T02:44:32Z")
The correct name is, of course, oneteen. As for eleven, you can blame the Old English _endleofon_, meaning roughly “one left over” in the sense of a group of ten with one extra. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/3 "2014-11-15T02:55:26Z")
As another data point, German has distinct words for 1-12, then starts in with the “ten and three” etc. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/4 "2014-11-15T02:57:45Z")
Spanish has distinct words up to 15, then goes to dieciseis. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/5 "2014-11-15T03:00:11Z")
French starts the two-word thing at seventeen. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/6 "2014-11-15T03:04:04Z")
Why fourteen? It’s only the second number with teen in it, not the fourth. ---
**Author:** ![qubed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f07891/32.png) [@qubed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qubed)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/7 "2014-11-15T03:08:48Z")
French and Spanish do really start the two-word form at 11, it’s just been shortened considerably. Spanish swaps the order of the two words at 16, and French at 17. e.g. 11 in spanish is _once_ which is shortened from the Latin _undecim_ which is just 1 + 10 ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/8 "2014-11-15T03:26:02Z")
The Japanese word for 11 is _jū ichi_ (十一), which is literally “ten one”. The character is made up of the character for 10 (十) and the character for 1 (一). It’s the same for 12-19, the words and characters mean “ten two”, “ten three”, etc. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/9 "2014-11-15T03:49:07Z")
The question I think is why we have this mix of base ten with some base 12 (dozens, eleven, twelve) and base 60 (seconds, minutes) mixed in. The answer I have heard which makes sense is that 12/60 is also a finger counting system, a pretty dang good one. Count the phalanges or knuckle of your fingers on one hand with your thumb and you get twelve; keep track of how many times you’ve done that with the fingers of your other hand five times and you’ve counted to 60 on your fingers. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/10 "2014-11-15T04:03:42Z")
I like 60. It has 10 factors. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/11 "2014-11-15T16:25:24Z")
Here is a recently-revived old thread on a related topic. It starts out pretty French-specific but quickly branches out to discuss lots of various number words in various languages. > **[French number system - Why so odd?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=124968)** > > I know that in French, one can count up to 69 quite easily. When we hit seventy, we suddenly start counting strangely. 10 is dix 11 is onze 60 is soixante 70 is soixante-dix (60 + 10) 71 is soixant-onze (60 + 11) etc… Then we get to eighty,... ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/12 "2014-11-15T16:41:41Z")
Because it’s one louder. Please tell me I’m not the only one who thought this on seeing the hed. Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and… Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten? Nigel Tufnel: Exactly. Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it’s louder? Is it any louder? Nigel Tufnel: Well, it’s one louder, isn’t it? It’s not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You’re on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you’re on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where? Marty DiBergi: I don’t know. Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do? Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven. Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder. Marty DiBergi: Why don’t you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder? Nigel Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/13 "2014-11-15T16:52:06Z")
Yeah, but this system goes to twelve. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/14 "2014-11-15T17:03:12Z")
I blame the Indo-Europeans. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/15 "2014-11-15T17:08:27Z")
**Czarcasm** , I suspect most people just use eleven out of habit but I think they would completely understand what you mean if you use onety-one. Can you test it and let us know how it goes? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/16 "2014-11-15T17:13:14Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Why fourteen? It’s only the second number with teen in it, not the fourth. If this is a serious question, it’s because it’s four + ten, ergo, fourteen. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/17 "2014-11-15T17:48:26Z")
I think it’s because by that logic you’d have to say “Ten-ty One.” That sounds way too much like “Twenty One” and so simply would not catch on, so folks stuck to Friedo’s “Old English ‘endleofon’” for clarity. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/18 "2014-11-15T17:53:23Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > As for eleven, you can blame the Old English endleofon, meaning roughly “one left over” in the sense of a group of ten with one extra. Is “twelve” similarly “two left over”? It shares that core group of letters “elve”, and seems to have a “two” in front. ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/19 "2014-11-15T18:02:19Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Is “twelve” similarly “two left over”? It shares that core group of letters “elve”, and seems to have a “two” in front. Yes, twelve comes from Proto-Germanic \*twa-lif- meaning “two left” > **[twelve | Etymology of twelve by etymonline](https://www.etymonline.com/word/twelve)** > > "1 more than eleven, twice six; the number which is one more than eleven; a symbol… See origin and meaning of twelve. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666/20 "2014-11-15T18:44:02Z")
You see how common words were by the terms that are specific, by the shortness of the words, etc. We have dozen, we have eleven, twelve; we have half, third, quarter - but beyond that we have fifth, sixth, etc. because those were less frequently used in common life experience in past centuries. Even illiterate and uneducated people had to deal with that sort of practical matter. Dozen and the numbers up to it seem to be relatively common. Dozen was liked, was a common quantity because it could be divided into 2,3,4,6 when splitting it up, something that likely occurred a lot in life experience. (10 was a lot less useful that way). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-eleven/704666.md?page=2)