# Why English "Muffins"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 28, 2014, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216 "2014-07-28T06:50:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/21 "2014-07-28T11:41:00Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > A muffin isn’t cake - a cupcake is cake. They’re both types of cake. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/22 "2014-07-28T12:10:11Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > However, I don’t doubt that in New York in 1894, a British immigrant named Samuel Bath Thomas claimed to invent the English Muffin You might have thought that he would have been making Bath Buns. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/23 "2014-07-28T12:26:21Z")
> [@seodoa](#): > > English muffins are what you would traditionally get if you asked for a muffin in England. Wrong. English muffins are what you get if you ask for a _crumpet_ in England. If you ask for a muffin you are most likely to get what you Americans would recognize as a muffin, since real English muffins are not actually all that common. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/24 "2014-07-28T12:30:03Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > Wrong. English muffins are what you get if you ask for a _crumpet_ in England. Sorry, what? If you ask for a crumpet, you’ll get a crumpet, which is not very similar to an English muffin at all. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/25 "2014-07-28T12:47:38Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > Wrong. English muffins are what you get if you ask for a _crumpet_ in England. > > If you ask for a muffin you are most likely to get what you Americans would recognize as a muffin, since real English muffins are not actually all that common. English muffins are sold everywhere in the UK, on the same shelf in shops as packets of pancakes and of crumpets. There must be hundreds of thousands, if not millions, made every week. ---
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/26 "2014-07-28T12:57:23Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > you Americans Was this turn of phrase necessary? It’s not only assuming, but needlessly inflammatory. I mean, I understand that breakfast is serious business, but let’s all calm down a bit. ETA: Besides, I believe I’ve already addressed the cultural conquest made by the cakey American muffin. I was just answering the OP. Are you suggesting that “English muffins” have never been the predominant muffin in England? ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/27 "2014-07-28T12:58:52Z")
> [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](#): > > English muffins are sold everywhere in the UK, on the same shelf in shops as packets of pancakes… Wait, what? And, I will also note that I have had people from the UK express disgust at what we term “English muffins”, as they are not anything like muffins from England, and they are almost, but not quite, crumpets. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/28 "2014-07-28T13:00:02Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > Wrong. English muffins are what you get if you ask for a _crumpet_ in England. > > If you ask for a muffin you are most likely to get what you Americans would recognize as a muffin, since real English muffins are not actually all that common. What rubbish. I’ve yet to meet and English person who can’t tell the difference between a muffin\* and a crumpet. \*Not the cakey kind. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/29 "2014-07-28T13:11:48Z")
> [@JKilez](#): > > Wait, what? And the problem here is…? > [@JKilez](#): > > And, I will also note that I have had people from the UK express disgust at what we term “English muffins”, as they are not anything like muffins from England, and they are almost, but not quite, crumpets. Can we have a link to what you call an english muffin? The same thing you have for Eggs Benedict? Because that’s what I’m thinking a muffin is. They’re not as holey as crumpets. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/30 "2014-07-28T13:13:46Z")
> [@JKilez](#): > > Wait, what? > > And, I will also note that I have had people from the UK express disgust at what we term “English muffins”, as they are not anything like muffins from England, and they are almost, but not quite, crumpets. I’ve often wondered about that. The English Muffins that McDonalds use for their breakfast offerings are not the same as the muffins I can buy in the shops - the latter are a little heavier and more doughy - almost like a part-baked item (because they are intended for splitting and toasting). McD’s muffins are more like just a flattish bread roll. But I have no real idea how these relate to English Muffins on the other side of the pond. Crumpets are a very different thing, to me - they are very chewy/resilient - I am occasionally tempted to hink they have more in common with pasta than bread. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/31 "2014-07-28T13:26:04Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Crumpets are a very different thing, to me - they are very chewy/resilient - I am occasionally tempted to hink they have more in common with pasta than bread. LOL. But, yeah, that last little bit of my post should have said “and they are also not quite crumpets”. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/32 "2014-07-28T13:30:43Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Can we have a link to what you call an english muffin? The same thing you have for Eggs Benedict? Because that’s what I’m thinking a muffin is. They’re not as holey as crumpets. Here is a [picture of Thomas’](http://truecouponing.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/LightMultiGrainEngMuff.jpg). They advertise as the “nooks and crannies” muffin. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/33 "2014-07-28T13:41:06Z")
I wish I’d never opened this thread. I think I’m more ignorant now than I was when I started. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/34 "2014-07-28T13:44:35Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > And the problem here is…? > > Can we have a link to what you call an english muffin? The same thing you have for Eggs Benedict? Because that’s what I’m thinking a muffin is. They’re not as holey as crumpets. **[Muffin in Britain](http://www.janeausten.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/iStock_000005595967XSmall.jpg)** **[Crumpet in Britain](http://www.essentially-england.com/images/crumpets.jpg)** Neither are haute cuisine. **[One type of All-American Muffin](http://america.lekuecooking.com/recetas/foto247.jpg)** Just as Americans have State Flowers and State Birds etc., ( a sufficiently curious notion to the prosaic British ) so some States have State Muffins. **[Muffin Man Delivering Muffins](http://tonourishandflourish.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/muffin-man-london.jpg)** > [@SanVito](#): > > What rubbish. I’ve yet to meet and English person who can’t tell the difference between a muffin\* and a crumpet. > > \*Not the cakey kind. To add to the confusion some crumpets have muffins attached. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/35 "2014-07-28T13:55:16Z")
> [@JKilez](#): > > Wait, what? > > And, I will also note that I have had people from the UK express disgust at what we term “English muffins”, as they are not anything like muffins from England, and they are almost, but not quite, crumpets. Well I am from the UK, and lived for many years in the USA, and I can’t imagine why. American English Muffins are very similar to what are sold in England as muffins, and, if anything, the American ones tend to be a bit tastier, IMHO. Crumpets are quite distinct things, though they are in teh same “family” of bread-like products designed always to be toasted. As has been noted, _both_ are sold in British supermarkets, pretty much universally in my recent experience. Certainly both are available in all the major supermarkets (and probably most small ones) round where I live now. Possibly crumpets are a bit more popular than muffins (and this was probably more the case 40 or 50 years ago). Crumpets are also available in American supermarkets, though they are not, I think, considered a staple in the way that English muffins are (and crumpets, in America, in my experience, always seem to have a Union Jack design of the packaging to indicate their Britishness, whereas “English muffins” generally do not). [Here are some muffins available from a British supermarket](http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=279843456). The picture is not that great, but you should be able to see the similarity to American "English muffins). (You can also find the American-style [non-English] muffins if you search). [Here are some crumpets from the same market](http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=277550984). Crumpets, unlike muffins, have little holes all over the top of them, and are not split before being toasted. > [@Claverhouse](#): > > To add to the confusion some crumpets have muffins attached. 😕 Huh? ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/36 "2014-07-28T13:59:27Z")
Just to be absolutely clear, have just been to the shops, and sitting side by side on a shelf are: [Muffins and crumpets (and Scotch pancakes below)](https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=63300038D4FD08DE!10607&authkey=!ANCVoKRB9EL80o4&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg) [Here’s a close-up muffin.](https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=63300038D4FD08DE!10609&authkey=!AJkGstC28frus0Y&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg) Notice the bread-like consistency. [And a crumpet.](https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=63300038D4FD08DE!10608&authkey=!AHNdrDQbL09sA4M&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg) Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have an appointment with the toaster. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/37 "2014-07-28T14:07:31Z")
The term “English muffin” is American in origin, though the OED’s earliest entry (from 1842) doesn’t describe it except for the word “farinaceous,” which probably means it wasn’t sweet. It’s likely the term was used for a US variation of the crumpet. Note that muffins today may not be what they were like 170 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/38 "2014-07-28T14:11:02Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > **[Muffin in Britain](http://www.janeausten.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/iStock_000005595967XSmall.jpg)** > **[Crumpet in Britain](http://www.essentially-england.com/images/crumpets.jpg)** > Neither are haute cuisine. > > \*\* Those look like pretty much the same thing. What am I missing? I think the cake-like ‘muffins’ in the US were probably called that to differentiate them from the sweeter, lighter cupcake. They usually don’t have any sort of icing on them and are quite often savory rather than sweet. They’re also more dense than a cupcake, containing such things as oatmeal or carrot. We associate cupcakes with icing; they’re usually lighter and sweeter. Wiki says the cupcake has been around since at least the 1700s and predates the muffin tin by a significant period of time. Why it’s called a muffin tin is a mystery to me, as both items are clearly small cakes. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/39 "2014-07-28T14:14:29Z")
I imagine that one could fill a dictionary with descriptions of all the different bread and cakes sold around the world, together with a basic recipe and their origins. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/40 "2014-07-28T14:16:48Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Well I am from the UK, and lived for many years in the USA, and I can’t imagine why. American English Muffins are very similar to what are sold in England as muffins, and, if anything, the American ones tend to be a bit tastier, IMHO. It could just be UK people complaining about how crappy the American version of something is, like they frequently do when talking about beer. I have never had a muffin in the UK, so I cannot make a direct comparison. The comparison to crumpets most likely comes from the look of a sliced American English muffin. An AE muffin is usually very [holey](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Liz-VpvKDvo/Sa2vi_V9KoI/AAAAAAAABG8/6rLtI-e1z7k/s576/English+Muffins+top+copy.jpg) and does not resemble a normal bread or biscuit. Often, baking soda or other quick leavening agents are used to increase the number of air pockets in the muffin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216.md?page=3)