# Why English "Muffins"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 28, 2014, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216 "2014-07-28T06:50:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/41 "2014-07-28T14:45:16Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Those look like pretty much the same thing. What am I missing? A muffin is a flattish, moderately dense, doughy bread roll. A crumpet is like a thick, rubbery pancake with a spongy network of holes that penetrate all the way to the bottom crust. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/42 "2014-07-28T14:57:44Z")
> [@JKilez](#): > > The comparison to crumpets most likely comes from the look of a sliced American English muffin. An AE muffin is usually very [holey](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Liz-VpvKDvo/Sa2vi_V9KoI/AAAAAAAABG8/6rLtI-e1z7k/s576/English+Muffins+top+copy.jpg) and does not resemble a normal bread or biscuit. Often, baking soda or other quick leavening agents are used to increase the number of air pockets in the muffin. OK, those are definitely more holey than any muffin I’ve eaten here in England - even the McDs lightweight muffins are holey-like-ciabatta, not holey-like-crumpets. Muffins are traditionally not sliced though - you’re meant to pierce them all the way around with the tines of a fork, then tear them into two halves. ---
**Author:** ![Elemenopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5e925/32.png) [@Elemenopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elemenopy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/43 "2014-07-28T16:37:14Z")
Most English muffins in the US seem to use a sour dough, and they have a hearty chew (high gluten development, I imagine). RobDog’s example looks rather wimpy in comparison (more like a cheap hamburger roll), but hard to say from a picture. If my oven wasn’t on the fritz, I’d be really tempted to make some muffins now. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/44 "2014-07-28T16:42:20Z")
> [@Elemenopy](#): > > If my oven wasn’t on the fritz, I’d be really tempted to make some muffins now. I’ve made English Muffins. They were kind of a pain, as you cook them on the stove-top and need to get them cooked all the way through without burning the outside. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/45 "2014-07-28T16:49:50Z")
> [@Elemenopy](#): > > Most English muffins in the US seem to use a sour dough, and they have a hearty chew (high gluten development, I imagine). RobDog’s example looks rather wimpy in comparison (more like a cheap hamburger roll), but hard to say from a picture. > > If my oven wasn’t on the fritz, I’d be really tempted to make some muffins now. As far as I know, they’re not made from sourdough here in the UK, although that sounds great. They’re not exactly “wimpy” here. I’m discovering it’s hard to get an idea of what bread products are like from photos alone. They’re certainly not much like any kind of hamburger roll. They’re denser, for one thing. They’re certainly delicious, too. I like them with strong cheddar and Marmite, but I feel like I’m doing something bad. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/46 "2014-07-28T17:01:04Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > A muffin is a flattish, moderately dense, doughy bread roll. > > A crumpet is like a thick, rubbery pancake with a spongy network of holes that penetrate all the way to the bottom crust. Thanks. In all my trips to London, I never met a crumpet. Strumpets, perhaps, which it could be argued may have the same description. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/47 "2014-07-28T17:01:57Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Those look like pretty much the same thing. What am I missing? In an English muffin you don’t see the holes until you split it open. A crumpet isn’t meant to be split and the holes go all the way through. You can see your plate through them. Also in my experience, the texture of a crumpet is lighter and crispier, a little bit more like a waffle. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/48 "2014-07-28T17:20:04Z")
Since the factual aspects of this have been answered, let’s move this over to Cafe Society. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/49 "2014-07-28T17:22:14Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Thanks. In all my trips to London, I never met a crumpet. Strumpets, perhaps, which it could be argued may have the same description. I never had much difficulty finding crumpets in regular American supermarkets (in Southern California, anyway). They are not an American staple like English muffins are, but they are much more common than, say, Marmite. > [@Elemenopy](#): > > Most English muffins in the US seem to use a sour dough, and they have a hearty chew (high gluten development, I imagine). I do not think _most_ are sourdough, plain ones are a common staple in America too, and there are other flavours. In Britain sourdough is not common, though. > [@Acsenray](#): > > A crumpet isn’t meant to be split and the holes go all the way through. You can see your plate through them. No, no! :eek: If the holes go all the way through, the butter will all fall out the bottom!. In a normal crumpet there is a thin but dense base, without holes (or only tiny pores). If you can see your plate through it, your crumpet is defective. The whole idea is that the butter melts on the hot top surface and fills the holes, saturating the crumpet with butter. It is true, however, that the holes are essentially vertical tubes that go _almost_ through the whole thickness of the crumpet. Muffins do not have holes/tubes of this sort, just the normal pores of a coarse bread. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/50 "2014-07-28T17:23:14Z")
Words can change meaning over time? Who knew??? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/51 "2014-07-28T17:28:47Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I never had much difficulty finding crumpets in regular American supermarkets (in Southern California, anyway). They are not an American staple like English muffins are, but they are much more common than, say, Marmite. > . Oddly, I’ve never seen a crumpet in an American supermarket, but I can find Marmite, Branstion Pickle, even Jaffa cakes. Now, not in most supermarkets, but there’s a few chains that stock them. Never seen the crumpets, though, ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/52 "2014-07-28T17:32:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Words can change meaning over time? Who knew??? Where are you seeing that? According to **Miss\_Gnomer** ’s evidence, [English] muffins have been called muffins (and crumpets have been called crumpets) at least since the mid 18th century, probably longer. I do not see any evidence (in this discussion, or in my experience) of change in that, on either side of the Atlantic. Nobody has yet explained, however, why and when American’s came to also call those cupcake-like things “muffins”. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/53 "2014-07-28T17:43:13Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Oddly, I’ve never seen a crumpet in an American supermarket, but I can find Marmite, Branstion Pickle, even Jaffa cakes. Now, not in most supermarkets, but there’s a few chains that stock them. Never seen the crumpets, though, Have you looked? Maybe it isn’t everywhere, but the Vons chain in the Los Angeles area usually used to stock them, if not always, then frequently, and, unlike the other products you mention, they were clearly made in America, not imported (despite the fact that the packaging had a Union Jack design). Maybe it was just some local SO Cal bakery that was doing them. None of the main chains regularly carried Marmite (except for the small _Fresh and Easy_ chain, before they folded, but they were British owned anyway), and I had to seek out my fix in specialty stores. I don’t recall ever seeing Branston Pickle or Jaffa Cakes in the main chain supermarkets, either, but crumpets, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/54 "2014-07-28T17:54:28Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Oddly, I’ve never seen a crumpet in an American supermarket, but I can find Marmite, Branstion Pickle, even Jaffa cakes. Now, not in most supermarkets, but there’s a few chains that stock them. Never seen the crumpets, though, I’ve occasionally bought crumpets in the U.S. At Harris Teeter, I think. I haven’t noticed them recently. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/55 "2014-07-28T18:24:27Z")
Having read only a short way into the thread, I’m going to give the names as I grew up with them, (these go back to the 1970’s in the USA) and then I’ll go back and read to see how close I’ve come to the consensus: - An English Muffin is a sourdough crumpet leavened with yeast. - A crumpet is a flattish, sweeter version of an American muffin, made with baking powder and/or soda, with large bubbles inside. - An American muffin is an occasional sweetish, but not sugary cake the same size as a cupcake, but with about half the sugar. It can be made very savory with sausage or cheese or on the sweeter side, but never iced or glazed. It is leavened with baking powder or soda, and the bubbles are meant to be quite small. - A cupcake is very sweet muffin-sized confection with vanilla or chocolate or other dessert flavoring. It is usually iced or glazed. These are occasionally served at business breakfasts where all pretend that they are muffins. - An American biscuit is a mixture of flour, shortening and buttermilk usually baked in rounds, very light and fluffy. - An English biscuit is a flat, crunchy, tasteless cookie, occasionally saved by the addition of jam or icing. It is generally palatable oly after dunking in a hot beverage. - A cookie is a flat crunchy or chewy, flavorful dessert with any of a hundred different combinations of extracts and additions such as chocolate chips or dried fruit. - A popover is a Yorkshire pudding, but always a small one baked in a muffin pan. There, have I missed anything? Now let’s go back and see how I did! ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/56 "2014-07-28T18:47:58Z")
Well, I was a bit off on crumpets, and I agree the folks above have done a much better job of describing them. I also agree that English Muffins are split before toasting while crumpets are not. I’ve always thought of crumpets as a bit rubbery, as if they were steamed rather than baked. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/57 "2014-07-28T20:22:31Z")
One of the most visible differences between muffins and crumpets are that when muffins are made (traditionally on a stove top), they’re flipped over and cooked on both sides, giving it a more roll-like appearance. Crumpets, however, aren’t flipped, creating large holes on the top of it. Also, the batter for a muffin is relatively firm, while that of a crumpet is very loose. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/58 "2014-07-28T20:45:57Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > - A crumpet is a flattish, sweeter version of an American muffin, made with baking powder and/or soda, with large bubbles inside. Crumpets are in no way sweet. A _very_ neutral taste, suitable for butter, or even pate, unlike scones, which are usually sweetish. And commercial muffins which can, but shouldn’t, have a sweet tinge. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/59 "2014-07-28T20:46:50Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Have you looked? Maybe it isn’t everywhere, but the Vons chain in the Los Angeles area usually used to stock them, if not always, then frequently, and, unlike the other products you mention, they were clearly made in America, not imported (despite the fact that the packaging had a Union Jack design). Maybe it was just some local SO Cal bakery that was doing them. None of the main chains regularly carried Marmite (except for the small _Fresh and Easy_ chain, before they folded, but they were British owned anyway), and I had to seek out my fix in specialty stores. I don’t recall ever seeing Branston Pickle or Jaffa Cakes in the main chain supermarkets, either, but crumpets, yes. I browse the bakery items regularly, but haven’t seen them anywhere. As for Marmite, Branston Pickle, and the like, Meijer (a Midwestern grocery store chain) has it in the English food section. I see it regularly at another regional chain called Treasure Island. I’m pretty sure it’s also available at Mariano’s (another regional chain) and I’ve seen at least Marmite at Whole Foods, as well. Jaffa Cakes are a more recent addition. Those I had been searching for for awhile, but only saw them show up in the last year or two, at Meijer’s. (Perhaps they weren’t distributed in the US before?) Also, there is Cost Plus World Market, which is kind of mish-mash of stuff from furniture to beers to various condiments and non-perishable foods. They’re also the only place I know of to get Vegemite around here (and they have Marmite and Branston Pickle as well, except for that brief time when there was that Branston factory fire or whatever it was). None of the other stores that stock Marmite stock Vegemite. I’m also fairly certain I’ve seen Marmite at some Jewel Food Stores (an Albertsons company, and the most popular grocery store in the Chicago area), and an Internet check does confirm my memories. The trick is figuring out _where_ the Marmite is. If there an international section, that’s the best bet, but otherwise, it can take some sleuthing to figure out where they stock it. I’ll have a look more closely next time. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/60 "2014-07-28T20:50:44Z")
Recipes: [Crumpets](http://www.europeancuisines.com/England-English-The-Best-Crumpet-Crumpets-Recipe) More of a batter, like pancakes. [English Muffins](http://www.europeancuisines.com/England-English-Muffins) More of a traditional kneaded bread dough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216.md?page=4)