# Why English "Muffins"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 28, 2014, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216 "2014-07-28T06:50:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/81 "2014-08-05T10:35:29Z")
> [@Elemenopy](#): > > If my oven wasn’t on the fritz, I’d be really tempted to make some muffins now. (English) muffins aren’t made in the oven. Or at least, the ones you buy in supermarkets might be, but they shouldn’t be. They’re cooked on a griddle. I don’t have a griddle, so when I make them, I use a big heavy frying pan with a little bit of lard. You cook them for a few minutes on each side. [Like this](http://thewannabecountrygirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/6.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Kiyoshi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e19adc/32.png) [@Kiyoshi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiyoshi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/82 "2014-08-09T17:42:10Z")
Maybe it’s an age thing. I’ve asked a few friends (UK, in our 20s), and we’ve all agreed that if we heard the word “muffin” with no context, we would assume it was referring to the cake. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an “English muffin” outside of the McDonalds breakfast menu. I’m not sure what makes them any different from any other type of bread roll. ---
**Author:** ![Elemenopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5e925/32.png) [@Elemenopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elemenopy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/83 "2014-08-09T18:13:12Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > (English) muffins aren’t made in the oven. Or at least, the ones you buy in supermarkets might be, but they shouldn’t be. They’re cooked on a griddle. > > I don’t have a griddle, so when I make them, I use a big heavy frying pan with a little bit of lard. You cook them for a few minutes on each side. [Like this](http://thewannabecountrygirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/6.jpg). I had no idea! And I’ve made quite a few breads, including naan, which is made just like that on the iron skillet. Maybe I’ll give it a whirl this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/84 "2014-08-10T03:40:39Z")
> [@Kiyoshi](#): > > Maybe it’s an age thing. I’ve asked a few friends (UK, in our 20s), and we’ve all agreed that if we heard the word “muffin” with no context, we would assume it was referring to the cake. > > I don’t think I’ve ever seen an “English muffin” outside of the McDonalds breakfast menu. I’m not sure what makes them any different from any other type of bread roll. Well, if you walk through the supermarket with your eyes shut I guess you won’t see the muffins or see how they differ from bread rolls. Your ignorance notwithstanding, they are there on the shelves (and not particularly hard to find) and they do differ considerably. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/85 "2014-08-10T18:04:20Z")
We seem to be mixing up a couple of words in English here, with a couple of words in US English here, and to make it worse, US English has crept into UK English usage if you happen you be under a certain age. The small round sweet cakelike things are called buns, not muffins - for English folk under 40 years old. However buns can be used for lots of other baked goods, some are more bread based, and frequently but not always, have some sweet aspect to them. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/86 "2014-08-10T22:32:42Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > The small round sweet cakelike things are called buns, not muffins - for English folk under 40 years old. Do you have any sort of evidence for that? I am English folk well over 40 (I presume that is what you meant) and I would never use “buns” to refer to the cake things that Americans (and British people too, now) call [unqualified] muffins. When I was a boy, I do not think we called them anything at all, because I do not remember such things existing in Britain. I think both the thing, and the word “muffin” for them, are relatively recent imports from America. Although it is true that there are many types of buns in Britain, I do not think the word has ever stretched so far as to include things like [American] muffins, which differ greatly both in shape and texture from anything I would call a bun. (To make things yet more complicated, Americans also have the word “bun” but use it rather differently from the British. Apart from “cinnamon buns”, Americans do not really seem to go in for the several types of sweet bun that the British do. However, they do commonly use the word “bun” to describe the unsweetened bread rolls in which they eat hamburgers and hotdogs. In British English, and abstracted from their American-aping use with hamburgers and hotdogs, these plain breads would not be buns at all, but rolls.) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/87 "2014-08-11T00:09:09Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > Wrong. English muffins are what you get if you ask for a _crumpet_ in England. I thought what you got was slapped. > [@aruvqan](#): > > That is a load of carp …Friedrich Accum in his _1820_ book A Treatise on Adulterations of Food, and Culinary Poisons [[found here free](http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/19031)] mentions ‘hartshorn’ or bakers ammonia as a leavening agent. Awesome book. Well worth a read is you want to see how far chemistry had gotten by 1820. > [@](#): > > Markham’s The English Huswife from 1615 Reading it now. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/88 "2014-08-11T05:15:14Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I thought what you got was slapped. That would be asking for “crumpet”, without the article. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/89 "2014-08-11T05:52:52Z")
Here in Toronto, crumpets and English muffins are displayed side-by-side in the bread section at my local Food Basics. I could never confuse the two either. I LOVE soaking crumpets with butter and marmalade. It’s SOOOOOOOOOOOO good! ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/90 "2014-08-11T07:22:36Z")
Ach, I got that slightly wrong, for any English person \*\*OVER 40 \*\* then what you would call a cupcake, or US muffin is what we would call a bun if you are from the North of England, then you might consume a ‘Fancy’ A fancy is frequently covered in sugar icing and usually quite small, just one or two bites will finish one off. [https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en-GB&rlz=1T4GGHP\_en-GBGB566GB566&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Bm3oU8aBK6LZ0QW3ioDgDA&ved=0CCEQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=922&q=fancy%20cake%20bun](https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en-GB&rlz=1T4GGHP_en-GBGB566GB566&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Bm3oU8aBK6LZ0QW3ioDgDA&ved=0CCEQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=922&q=fancy%20cake%20bun) In between bun and fancy we have slightly fancy buns - such as butterfly buns [https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=butterfly+bun&hl=en-GB&rlz=1T4GGHP\_en-GBGB566GB566&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=mG3oU-usJcGi0QXr4YC4Bw&ved=0CCEQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=922](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=butterfly+bun&hl=en-GB&rlz=1T4GGHP_en-GBGB566GB566&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=mG3oU-usJcGi0QXr4YC4Bw&ved=0CCEQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=922) Of course you can make buns plain, currant, lemon vanilla or whatever you want, I believe you might call them cup cakes, however from what I have seen of US cupcakes, you seem to have much more icing and decoration, getting on for Fancy territory. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/91 "2014-08-11T09:48:10Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Ach, I got that slightly wrong, for any English person \*\*OVER 40 \*\* then what you would call a cupcake, or US muffin is what we would call a bun And as I said, I am an English person well over 40 (raised in the south but also lived many years in the north) and I would not call either a cupcake or a US muffin (which are similar in shape, but not in taste or texture) a bun. [These are buns](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=butterfly+bun&hl=en-GB&rlz=1T4GGHP_en-GBGB566GB566&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=mG3oU-usJcGi0QXr4YC4Bw&ved=0CCEQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=922#hl=en-GB&q=bun&tbm=isch) (except that some are buns in teh American sense, i.e., bread rolls suitable for containing a hamburger. British buns are sweeter, chewier, and often contain fruit.) [These are iced buns](https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en-GB&rlz=1T4GGHP_en-GBGB566GB566&tbm=isch&q=iced+bun&revid=1363371955&biw=1857&bih=972&dpr=1). > [@casdave](#): > > In between bun and fancy we have slightly fancy buns - such as butterfly buns > > [butterfly bun - Google Search](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=butterfly+bun&hl=en-GB&rlz=1T4GGHP_en-GBGB566GB566&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=mG3oU-usJcGi0QXr4YC4Bw&ved=0CCEQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=922) Well, I have never heard things like that called buns. They are cakes, and have a quite different texture to a bun (crumbly rather than chewy). I think, in British English, I would call them [fairy cakes](https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1857&bih=972&q=fairy+cakes&oq=fairy+cakes&gs_l=img.3..0l10.1657.1657.0.2324.1.1.0.0.0.0.58.58.1.1.0....0...1ac.1.51.img..0.1.58.Mxw-3TIESZM) or cupcakes (which is a British as well as an American term). [Here is what UK Google thinks are cup cakes](https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1857&bih=972&q=fairy+cakes&oq=fairy+cakes&gs_l=img.3..0l10.1657.1657.0.2324.1.1.0.0.0.0.58.58.1.1.0....0...1ac.1.51.img..0.1.58.Mxw-3TIESZM#hl=en&q=cup+cakes&tbm=isch). All the ones I see there are pretty fancied up, but they would still count as cup cakes (in the US or UK) if they had no icing or decoration at all. It is the texture and shape that make them a cupcake. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/92 "2014-08-11T10:56:49Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > [Here is what UK Google thinks are cup cakes](https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1857&bih=972&q=fairy+cakes&oq=fairy+cakes&gs_l=img.3..0l10.1657.1657.0.2324.1.1.0.0.0.0.58.58.1.1.0....0...1ac.1.51.img..0.1.58.Mxw-3TIESZM#hl=en&q=cup+cakes&tbm=isch). Wait. Y’all have your very own google? The real one isn’t good enough?😛 ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/93 "2014-08-11T11:58:30Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Wait. Y’all have your very own google? The real one isn’t good enough?😛 Everyone has their own Google (unfortunately). ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/94 "2014-08-11T12:08:03Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Wait. Y’all have your very own google? Yes. If you search for “favorite cupcake flavor” it returns zero hits. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216/95 "2014-08-11T12:46:58Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Everyone has their own Google (unfortunately). [UK Google Image Search](http://www.foodprocessing-technology.com/uploads/feature/feature103149/1-image-1.jpg) [US Google Image Search](http://www.zunie.net/gallery/albums/Lorie/lorie_01.jpg) I rest my case.😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-english-muffins/694216.md?page=4)