# Why every commercial I see on Drunk Driving single out men? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309 "2009-08-31T01:36:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/21 "2009-08-31T03:17:16Z")
I was just reacting to you saying “men being harder on men”. You’re right, but… let’s not go there. I know it’s been talked about here many times before 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/22 "2009-08-31T03:19:08Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Date one of your friends, damnit! That’s what I do. “But that would be like dating my brother!!” ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/23 "2009-08-31T03:19:28Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Well sure, if you want a villain, the women’s movement is as good as any. They were wrong (as in factually wrong, not morally repugnant) in claiming that there were no innate differences between the sexes, and continue to claim that women should act like men and vice versa; they’ve yet to recant their error, to the detriment of those who heeded that dictate. Fortunately we’re now seeing some pushback as people start to recognize the neurobiological differences between the sexes, and society’s ingrained different treatment of women and men. (For one thing, after several decades of feminism, men are still regarded as less sympathetic and more disposable, as **Der Trihs** noted.) Well, what do you think are the innate differences? I think that a lot of people make generalizations about that, and that assuming that a woman will be one way just because she’s female (or that a man will be another way) does more harm than just viewing people as individuals and not making any assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/24 "2009-08-31T03:24:41Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I was just reacting to you saying “men being harder on men”. You’re right, but… let’s not go there. I know it’s been talked about here many times before 😃 Men are harder on men, and men are the ones who view other men as disposable, not women. Men make the drunk driving commercials that depict men as the main culprits. It’s so easy to blame women, or the women’s movement, if you’re a man and you’re feeling all up on the cross, as so many white, straight men are these days, but I’d say look in the mirror before pointing the finger. Your dating experiences notwithstanding… thank you for not going there. You seem like a decent guy, please don’t blame womankind for your woes. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/25 "2009-08-31T03:28:09Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Because my beef has nothing to do with drunk driving, and everything to do with stereotypes. What if they were to show a woman, you’re saying that wouldn’t be effective? I’m not an advertising expert so I wouldn’t know. If in fact showing women in such commercials would be effective then I guess they’re blowing a great chance, but they seem to think otherwise. I’m not arguing for or against whether or not these ads work; unless someone in here’s a marketing wizard, we don’t know. It’s safe to beleive that the people who MAKE the ads think they’re effective. I’ll say something about advertising, though; if you’re having trouble getting dates you need to ask one of those women friends, one you can trust to be brutally honest (and tell them that’s what you need) to tell you what you need to do. Just some advice. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/26 "2009-08-31T03:28:44Z")
Advertising and Feminism: there’s a fish/bicylce pairing. In the original Swifter ads, women were shown to have “I have options” empowerment, taking the intiative to break up with their brooms as if they were unsatisfactory boyfriends. Then the campaing was ratcheted up, with women encouraged to gloat at how the broom just can’t get over the break-up and seeks to win her back. Also, they leave their old spray-bottle cleansers “on the shelf” in favor of Mr Clean disposable wipes. Nice re-direct, but it still shows menial housework as the woman’s responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/27 "2009-08-31T03:29:44Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Men are harder on men, and men are the ones who view other men as disposable, not women. Men make the drunk driving commercials that depict men as the main culprits. It’s so easy to blame women, or the women’s movement, if you’re a man and you’re feeling all up on the cross, as so many white, straight men are these days, but I’d say look in the mirror before pointing the finger. Your dating experiences notwithstanding… thank you for not going there. You seem like a decent guy, please don’t blame womankind for your woes. I logically couldn’t. I paid attention in my history classes… Well, I didn’t. But I know that this is something pretty exclusive to my lifetime. 🙂 Like you said, could be a guy producing such material. I just don’t want things to be ignored if the pendulum swings the other way. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/28 "2009-08-31T03:37:44Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Advertising and Feminism: there’s a fish/bicylce pairing. \ it still shows menial housework as the woman’s responsibility. meh. I work in a hardware store when I’m not in nursing school. I’ll give you two guesses as to which gender actually spends the money to buy brooms and mops. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/29 "2009-08-31T03:44:32Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > meh. I work in a hardware store when I’m not in nursing school. I’ll give you two guesses as to which gender actually spends the money to buy brooms and mops. But if they were to replace a man with a woman, I don’t think women would say; “That Swiffer looks exclusive to men”. I resent this as a man, because it’s as if men don’t, (shouldn’t) do house work… (not that I do NOW, but I would if I were in a relationship). My dad sure as fuck does more than my mom, my brother more than his ex-wife. Perhaps people would appreciate it more if they made an ad with a man dumping his broom. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/30 "2009-08-31T03:50:44Z")
Well in positive advertising, marketing to women pays. Women make over [80%](http://www.m2w.biz/fast_facts.php) of consumer purchasing decisions. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/31 "2009-08-31T03:52:49Z")
How is having a man mop going to keep a woman from purchasing it? ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/32 "2009-08-31T03:53:59Z")
I think you’re missing the main reason they use men in those ads: it’s been long established that men are far less willing/likely to identify with a female character than women are wtih a male character. IOW, a male character is perceived, by both sexes, as the ‘default’ person. So a given ad with a male lead has a chance to get the ‘don’t drink and drive’ message over to ALL the audience, while if you use a female one, you’re basically cutting your chances of being effective in half. This is also why there are many more children’s books with male leads than female ones. The girls will read “The Black Stallion” or “Hatchet” or “Tom Sawyer” and be able to empathize with the character, and able to see herself as the one taming the horse or surviving after the plane crash or having the adventures in the cave or whatever. (C’mon, you think any girl identifies with wimpy Becky instead?) On the other hand, by and large boys won’t read books with a female lead. Even ones that are about adventures rather than romance. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/33 "2009-08-31T03:57:47Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > I think you’re missing the main reason they use men in those ads: it’s been long established that men are far less willing/likely to identify with a female character than women are wtih a male character. IOW, a male character is perceived, by both sexes, as the ‘default’ person. So a given ad with a male lead has a chance to get the ‘don’t drink and drive’ message over to ALL the audience, while if you use a female one, you’re basically cutting your chances of being effective in half. > > This is also why there are many more children’s books with male leads than female ones. The girls will read “The Black Stallion” or “Hatchet” or “Tom Sawyer” and be able to empathize with the character, and able to see herself as the one taming the horse or surviving after the plane crash or having the adventures in the cave or whatever. (C’mon, you think any girl identifies with wimpy Becky instead?) On the other hand, by and large boys won’t read books with a female lead. Even ones that are about adventures rather than romance. How much of that is conditioned though? If we integrated men or women in different roles, would we not be more accustomed to it? I’m asking this… not saying I’m right on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/34 "2009-08-31T04:00:48Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Well in positive advertising, marketing to women pays. Women make over [80%](http://www.m2w.biz/fast_facts.php) of consumer purchasing decisions. Yet [the majority of creative directors in ad agencies are men.](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/22/business/media/22gender.html) So women still do more of the grocery shopping, and men run the ad agencies. Still want to blame women for all those commercials you find demeaning? Especially since women apparently don’t even like these jaundiced ads you are so insulted by. From your cite: > [@](#): > > ~ 59% of women feel misunderstood by food marketers > ~ 66% feel misunderstood by health care marketers > ~ 74% feel misunderstood by automotive marketers > ~ 84% feel misunderstood by investment marketers; > ~ 91% of women in one survey said that advertisers don’t understand them; ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/35 "2009-08-31T04:17:11Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Men are harder on men, and men are the ones who view other men as disposable, not women. Hmmm? Women ( along with men ) do and always have regarded men as disposable. “Come back with your shield or on it”, to quote the mothers of Sparta. Humans appeared to simply be wired to feel less concern for males. Literally from birth; studies have shown than male babies have to cry longer and louder to get a parental response. > [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Nice re-direct, but it still shows menial housework as the woman’s responsibility. Well, it is and short of housekeeping being totally automated probably largely always will be for a simple reason: women actually care. For that matter, even if housework was automated I expect women would generally insist on choosing the settings. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/36 "2009-08-31T04:18:55Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I resent this as a man Why? Just grow a set, will you. Look, advertisers aren’t trying to change status quo, they are pandering to it. Who buys cleaning products? Statistically, that’s women. Who do you try to sell cleaning products to then? That’s not against men. That’s not against women. That is what I like to call “economics”. If we can get past your male guilt emo bullshit, you did pose an interesting question in your OP. Public service ads try to influence people’s social behavior the same way that commercial ads try to influence people’s buying behavior. They’re not usually as good at it because there’s no money in it, and talent follows the money, but the principles are the same. Your question should be: “Are men more likely to drink and drive?” Sociologically, that’s interesting. Anybody have any data? ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/37 "2009-08-31T04:38:14Z")
> [@StaudtCJ](#): > > I agree with you about the whole sitcom thing, among other idiotic things. Men are intelligent, capable, and responsible as a general rule, just as women and “others” are. The recent depiction of them as goofy, brainless, incompetents with the oh-so-savvy dear wife (for example) is ridiculous. For the record, I think that for every 4 men who are depicted driving drunk, one woman should be. Lets actually show the demographics, and give people a real look at the fact that alcoholic women are the ones more likely to have a couple drinks to relax at home, and then drive junior to \. I started noticing this complaint about 5 years ago on websites like ‘commercials I hate’ and other similar websites. Lots of people complaining that men are always depicted as buffoons while the wife is all smart and reasonable and logical, and how this is so unfair to men. By the time I started reading the dope, I was seeing this complaint on a regular basis, and I still don’t get it. The reason the men are shown as buffoons is because they are the _star of the show!_ Men are the star, or the main focus of the show, much more than women are. That speaks to the battle that women have, to gain equality in the media, not the other way around! If more women were given the opportunity to be the star of the show, more women would be shown as the idiot to her man’s more reasoned and level headed logic. Take I Love Lucy, for example…it was Lucy who was the idiot vs. Ricky’s much more reasoned thinking (sure, he was a hot head, but that is a whole other set of stereotyping). Everybody Loves Raymond? Big surprise, the wife is the more reasonable character. Raymond is the star and gets to do most of the clowning. So he is shown as a clown (I guess, based on folks reaction to the show, never really watched the show. As a matter of fact, let’s switch Honeymooners for Raymond so I can know what the hell I am talking about.) If there were more shows on tv that focused on the female as the main character, there would be more shows on tv that showed the woman as the moron. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/38 "2009-08-31T04:39:30Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Hmmm? Women ( along with men ) do and always have regarded men as disposable. “Come back with your shield or on it”, to quote the mothers of Sparta. Ah yes, the women of Sparta. That’s the best you can do? Men start the wars and send other men to fight them. I can’t see how you’re going to lay that on women, those hard-hearted women of Sparta aside. > [@](#): > > Humans appeared to simply be wired to feel less concern for males. Literally from birth; studies have shown than male babies have to cry longer and louder to get a parental response. You’re making scientific claims here about how people are wired, etc. I’m guessing you have no cite but your own persecution complex. > [@](#): > > Well, it is and short of housekeeping being totally automated probably largely always will be for a simple reason: women actually care. For that matter, even if housework was automated I expect women would generally insist on choosing the settings. So it’s OK to market cleaning products to women because statistically, they clean more, but it’s sexist to market drunk driving commercials to men, even though they drive drunk more. Double standard? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/39 "2009-08-31T04:46:21Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Why? Just grow a set, will you. I have a set. Thanks. > [@](#): > > If we can get past your male guilt emo bullshit I get the “emo” part, though I think you’re just providing a great example of what **Rubystreak** is getting at. Not the guilt. I don’t feel guilt now. As a kid I did. That’s why I care about this shit. Sure advertisers are out to make money, and don’t have any responsibility other than what the network allows to be aired. I just don’t agree with their method and don’t think it would hurt their demographic to change a few things, maybe broaden it. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309/40 "2009-08-31T04:49:49Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > You’re making scientific claims here about how people are wired, etc. I’m guessing you have no cite but your own persecution complex. actually, I did hear this too recently. Sorry, no site ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-every-commercial-i-see-on-drunk-driving-single-out-men/508309.md?page=3)