# Why evolution is not possible. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2001, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035 "2001-08-30T23:54:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2001, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/1 "2001-08-30T23:54:08Z")
After following the Evolution Vs Creation debate for a few years now I have come to the conclusion that evolution is not possible. After doing a lot of research on the topic and looking at different points of view I have decided to present a set of hypotheses that prove that evolution is not possible. The hypotheses are not my own, but I believe that I could not have refined them any better. I will therefore quote the following set of hypotheses from here: [http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/quest.htm](http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/quest.htm) that shows how evolution simply does not work. [extremely long post deleted. you not only quoted from the aformentioned website, you copied the entire website, which is not only probably illegal, but also tactless and unimaginative.-Czarcasm] Well there it is, I am not christian myself but I do believe in natural design and order. [Edited by Czarcasm on 08-30-2001 at 09:25 PM] ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/2 "2001-08-31T00:16:09Z")
All right, since this is taken verbatim from another site, I think it’s going to be deleted pretty soon. Therefore, I’m not going to respond to each point. I will suggest, however, that you brush up on big bang cosmology, thermodynamics, evolution, and information theory. To wit:[ul][li] Evolution is not “the idea that natural, undirected processes are sufficient to account for the existence of all natural things.” That’s a straw man, and that won’t get you far here.[/li][li] The big bang wasn’t an explosion. It was the beginning of spacetime. As it was not an explosion, it needn’t be at all similar to regular explosions.[/li][li] Open systems needn’t tend do disorder if enough energy is applied. Examples include planets, galaxies, and lifeforms.[/li] I would like to see where information theory states that “information never arises out of randomness or chance events”. Information theory doesn’t even really apply here, as it merely deals with the optimal way to transmit signals in the presence of noise.[/ul]I suggest you read up at [talkorigins.org](http://www.talkorigins.org). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/3 "2001-08-31T00:17:15Z")
This has been done. Repeatedly. Ad nauseum. I’m sure other people will be along to point out the mistakes in those people’s arguments. I just have one question. What is your theory regarding the diversity of life? ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/4 "2001-08-31T00:21:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\*This has been done. Repeatedly. Ad nauseum. I’m sure other people will be along to point out the mistakes in those people’s arguments. I just have one question. What is your theory regarding the diversity of life? \*\* Diversity is built into the gene pool to manifest when it is required. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/5 "2001-08-31T00:24:33Z")
In fact, I’m pretty darned sure this entire post, word for word, has been posted here before and ripped to shreds. Hiyruu, why don’t you go and actually **do** the research you claim to have done in your OP, then come back, OK? ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/6 "2001-08-31T00:27:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Smeghead \* > \*\*In fact, I’m pretty darned sure this entire post, word for word, has been posted here before and ripped to shreds. Hiyruu, why don’t you go and actually **do** the research you claim to have done in your OP, then come back, OK? \*\* I don’t see any one ripping yet…come on, I dare ya. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/7 "2001-08-31T00:29:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > \*\* > Diversity is built into the gene pool to manifest when it is required. \*\* Well, but built in how? What’s the mechanism? Also, why do different species exist? How come there’s a dog, a bug, and me? Why are we different from each other. If evolution doesn’t happen, then the dog’s ancestors always were dogs, the bugs ancestors always were bugs, and my ancestors always were people. Is that what you’re arguing? If so, what evidence do you have that that’s true? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/8 "2001-08-31T00:37:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Smeghead \* > > \*\*In fact, I’m pretty darned sure this entire post, word for word, has been posted here before and ripped to shreds. Hiyruu, why don’t you go and actually **do** the research you claim to have done in your OP, then come back, OK? \*\* > > I don’t see any one ripping yet…come on, I dare ya. \*\* Did you miss my post? ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/9 "2001-08-31T00:49:32Z")
[Four weeks ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=32329&pagenumber=2), this list was posted verbatim by **Raven255**. It was then torn to itty, bitty, teeny shreds. Perhaps, **Hiryuu** , you could indulge us by carefully scanning that thread before continuing to post in this one. That would give you a head start on the arguments against your position, which would otherwise be repeated like a call-and-return session at the 1st Baptist. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/10 "2001-08-31T00:51:34Z")
Sorry, that was one year and four weeks ago. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/11 "2001-08-31T00:58:08Z")
Sofa King wrote: > [@](#): > > [Four weeks (and a year) ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=32329&pagenumber=2), this list was posted verbatim by **Raven255**. :eek: You mean Raven255 didn’t think up all those arguments himself, but copied them from a webpage?! Say it ain’t so! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/12 "2001-08-31T01:02:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > > \*\* > > Diversity is built into the gene pool to manifest when it is required. \*\* > > Well, but built in how? What’s the mechanism? Also, why do different species exist? How come there’s a dog, a bug, and me? Why are we different from each other. If evolution doesn’t happen, then the dog’s ancestors always were dogs, the bugs ancestors always were bugs, and my ancestors always were people. Is that what you’re arguing? If so, what evidence do you have that that’s true? \*\* For example a wolf has the built in genetic diversity to morph into the wide variety of dogs in response to environment and need. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/13 "2001-08-31T01:03:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > \*\*For example a wolf has the built in genetic diversity to morph into the wide variety of dogs in response to environment and need. \*\* How did it get there? ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/14 "2001-08-31T01:05:28Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* \*\*All right, since this is taken verbatim from another site, I think it’s going to be deleted pretty soon. Therefore, I’m not going to respond to each point. I will suggest, however, that you brush up on big bang cosmology, thermodynamics, evolution, and information theory. To wit:[ul][li] Evolution is not “the idea that natural, undirected processes are sufficient to account for the existence of all natural things.” That’s a straw man, and that won’t get you far here.[/li][li] The big bang wasn’t an explosion. It was the beginning of spacetime. As it was not an explosion, it needn’t be at all similar to regular explosions.[/li][li] Open systems needn’t tend do disorder if enough energy is applied. Examples include planets, galaxies, and lifeforms.[/li][li] I would like to see where information theory states that “information never arises out of randomness or chance events”. Information theory doesn’t even really apply here, as it merely deals with the optimal way to transmit signals in the presence of noise.[/ul]I suggest you read up at [talkorigins.org](http://www.talkorigins.org). \*\*[/li][/QUOTE] Why shoud you care if it was taken from a website? These are universal hypotheses and putting it in my own words would be time-consuming and unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/15 "2001-08-31T01:07:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > \*\*Why shoud you care if it was taken from a website? These are universal hypotheses and putting it in my own words would be time-consuming and unnecessary. \*\* I don’t care, but the mods don’t particularly like it, especially if it’s long and/or possibly copyrighted. If you have anything to say about the rest of the post, I’d like to hear that. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/16 "2001-08-31T01:07:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > For example a wolf has the built in genetic diversity to **morph** into the wide variety of dogs in response to environment and need. \*\* “Go, go, Power Rangers…!” ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/17 "2001-08-31T01:10:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > > \*\*For example a wolf has the built in genetic diversity to morph into the wide variety of dogs in response to environment and need. \*\* > > How did it get there? \*\* I believe that there are archetypal species such as the wolf that have the genetic potential to be expressed in response to environment. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/18 "2001-08-31T01:11:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > \*\* > For example a wolf has the built in genetic diversity to morph into the wide variety of dogs in response to environment and need. \*\* How did the wolf get there in the first place? Also, like ultrafilter said, how did the specific genes get there? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/19 "2001-08-31T01:13:00Z")
Sorry, we simulposted. I’m still wondering, though, how did these “archetypal species” come into existance? ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035/20 "2001-08-31T01:13:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > > \*\*Why shoud you care if it was taken from a website? These are universal hypotheses and putting it in my own words would be time-consuming and unnecessary. \*\* > > I don’t care, but the mods don’t particularly like it, especially if it’s long and/or possibly copyrighted. If you have anything to say about the rest of the post, I’d like to hear that. \*\* The copyright issue is not relevant because it was quoted. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-evolution-is-not-possible/79035.md?page=2)