# Why exactly did gun culture blossom in the US and, seemingly, not in most other Western countries? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090 "2019-07-14T23:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/61 "2019-07-15T22:47:49Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > … Most Americans (75-80%) want tighter controls on guns. … According to [Gallup](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx) (“In general, do you feel that the laws covering the sale of firearms should be made more strict, less strict or kept as they are now?”) “More strict” was at 61% as of last October. The last time it was above 75% was in September 1990 (78%). ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/62 "2019-07-15T22:51:16Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > People (especially those from other countries) should remember that the ‘gun culture’ in America is mostly a lot of noise from a small group of people. > > Only 25-30% of US citizens on a gun – 70-75% don’t have any. And only 3% of the people own over 50% of the guns in the country – averaging several dozen apiece. Those are the ones we call ‘gun nuts’. And those are the people who make noise about guns. > > Most Americans (75-80%) want tighter controls on guns. But the ‘gun nuts’ are organized and have outsized political power because they are supported by the NRQA (funded by gun manufacturers, and now Putin) and the Republican Paty, which finds this an effective polorizing, GOTV issue. Those numbers seem a bit optimistic, but even taking them at face value, the [extraordinary rate of gun violence in the US](https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-11-26/these-charts-show-just-how-bad-gun-violence-us-compared-developed-peers) remains a fact. And the simple reason for it is that even if most Americans don’t actually own a gun, it’s trivially easy to borrow or steal one due to their abundance, or equally easy to buy one or three if someone is suddenly so inclined, say, to perpetrate a homicide or mass shooting. And regardless of fanatical gun owners being a minority, ISTM that there is a pervasive gun culture in the US such that anyone owning one or more guns would not be considered at all out of the ordinary, whereas in my experience, in most other countries it would be, in the absence of an actual compelling reason. There is, IOW, an actual social disincentive to owning guns, and that’s a really significant cultural difference. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/63 "2019-07-15T22:58:46Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > People (especially those from other countries) should remember that the ‘gun culture’ in America is mostly a lot of noise from a small group of people. > > Only 25-30% of US citizens on a gun – 70-75% don’t have any. And only 3% of the people own over 50% of the guns in the country – averaging several dozen apiece. Those are the ones we call ‘gun nuts’. And those are the people who make noise about guns. > > Most Americans (75-80%) want tighter controls on guns. But the ‘gun nuts’ are organized and have outsized political power because they are supported by the NRQA (funded by gun manufacturers, and now Putin) and the Republican Paty, which finds this an effective polorizing, GOTV issue. Neither Putin nor the Gun companies fund the NRA to any significant degree. And sure, a lot of Americans and even myself favor “tighter controls on guns” but only a small minority want (for example) handguns banned. The devil is in the details and of course how the poll is worded. For example, most voters like the idea of banning people on the “no-fly list” from owning gun, until they find out that, at least in America, you can be put on the list for many spurious reasons, and the list is inaccurate as hell. And, there are no significant number of American terrorists on the list. (Since there are no significant number of American terrorists that arent in prison). They like the idea of banning people with mental illnesses from owning guns, until they find out that’s already the law, and what was wanted was taking everyone with Social Security Disability for mental issues and banning them from owning guns. People like the idea of getting rid of the “gun show loophole” until they find out there is no such thing. And of course the ATF can get rid of the problem straw man dealers in one stroke of the pen by actually doing their job and defining “gun dealer”. etc, etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/64 "2019-07-15T23:00:19Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > None of that matches my understanding of the French Revolution, which was very much the product of the Enlightenment and produced the Declaration of the Rights of Man, based on individual liberty and equality. I disagree. I feel that America had the last revolution of the Enlightenment era and France had the first revolution of the Romantic era. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/65 "2019-07-16T00:06:42Z")
Because US males have smaller penises? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/66 "2019-07-16T01:43:56Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > Because US males have smaller penises? This is trolling, and the type that can derail an otherwise interesting discussion. Knock it off. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mr.Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Bill)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/67 "2019-07-16T02:22:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > … but several American Indian tribes were actually warlike and carried on more than a few small raids. Witness Custer. Ummm - you do realize that Custer was the aggressor, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/68 "2019-07-16T02:29:41Z")
American gun culture, as we know it, has its origin in the post-Civil War era, when the relatively newly massive arms industry needed to find someone other than the government to sell its goods to. It’s all a big racket. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/69 "2019-07-16T04:48:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is one of the things that came to mind right away. There are something like 20 million veterans in the country, … more than double the % of our population is currently serving in the military compared to those other countries. Interesting statistics, but irrelevant. In some countries almost 100% of the population have military service. See posts upthread about Israel, Switzerland. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/70 "2019-07-16T04:52:06Z")
> [@Mr.Bill](#): > > Ummm - you do realize that Custer was the aggressor, don’t you? Yes, of course, but the tribes there were gathering for war, under a war leader, thus they had the forces to crush Custer. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/71 "2019-07-16T04:52:48Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Also the USA is a big country and especially rural citizens use firearms for hunting, home defense, varmint control (groundhogs, snakes, etc.), and recreation. I don’t think I’ve ever met a Spanish farmer who didn’t own and use multiple guns, but if you asked them which ones they use for home defense they’d think you crazy. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/72 "2019-07-16T04:53:12Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Interesting statistics, but irrelevant. > In some countries almost 100% of the population have military service. > See posts upthread about Israel, Switzerland. Females dont have to serve in Switzerland, and in Israel quite a few get religious exemptions. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/73 "2019-07-16T07:13:55Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Israel and Switzerland have tons of guns, but do not see them as the symbol the US does. They do have gun cultures. what they don’t have is “my gun in your face” cultures. Israel does not have a gun culture as much as it has a security culture, in which guns play a (relatively small) part. What it does not have is a hunting culture. At all. It’s easier to get a pilot’s license in Israel than it is to get a hunting license. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/74 "2019-07-16T08:14:47Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I don’t think I’ve ever met a Spanish farmer who didn’t own and use multiple guns, but if you asked them which ones they use for home defense they’d think you crazy. I think this is the crux: what do you use guns for? Home and personal defense? You must be American. Varmint control, sporting uses, competition, hunting? You must be Canadian, Spanish, British, and a lot of other countries that allow their citizens to own and use firearms for various purposes, of which “personal defense” is not one. The attitudes about guns between America and the rest of the western world are very different. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/75 "2019-07-16T19:13:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Israel does not have a gun culture as much as it has a security culture, in which guns play a (relatively small) part. > > What it does not have is a hunting culture. At all. It’s easier to get a pilot’s license in Israel than it is to get a hunting license. what is there to hunt? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/76 "2019-07-16T19:30:22Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I think this is the crux: what do you use guns for? No, the question should be “What do you think you will use your gun for?” If the question was “What do you actually use your gun for?” Then some people could answer “Hunting.” (And a few could answer “Committing crimes.”) Relatively few could answer “Defending myself.” And virtually none could answer “Fighting tyranny.” So the difference between American views on guns and other countries’ views on guns is much more a matter of beliefs rather than practices. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/77 "2019-07-16T20:07:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, the question should be “What do you think you will use your gun for?” > > If the question was “What do you actually use your gun for?” Then some people could answer “Hunting.” (And a few could answer “Committing crimes.”) Relatively few could answer “Defending myself.” And virtually none could answer “Fighting tyranny.” > > So the difference between American views on guns and other countries’ views on guns is much more a matter of beliefs rather than practices. Well, there’s target shooting, (remember there are several Olympic events that are shooting), collecting, Cowboy action shooting, skeet & trap shooting, etc. In fact the one gun nut I know who has over 100 guns- nearly all are "curios & relics’ old ww1 and earlier vintage weapons. But the big one is \*\*feeling safer. \*\* And the number of defensive gun uses is much higher than you think, since many dont involve actually killing a attacker. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/78 "2019-07-16T21:35:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > what is there to hunt? 😕 Palestinians. (d&r) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/79 "2019-07-16T21:37:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > what is there to hunt? 😕 Wild boars, gazelles, ibexes, wolves; any number of species of birds - besides native birds, Israel lies on a major migration route; critters like jackals and hyraxes. Israel has a very diverse ecosystem. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/80 "2019-07-16T21:53:13Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I think this is the crux: what do you use guns for? > > Home and personal defense? You must be American. > > Varmint control, sporting uses, competition, hunting? You must be Canadian, Spanish, British, and a lot of other countries that allow their citizens to own and use firearms for various purposes, of which “personal defense” is not one. > > The attitudes about guns between America and the rest of the western world are very different. So in Canada, Spain, and the UK, if you have your hunting shotgun in your house and someone breaks in, do you just leave your shotgun alone and never think of picking it up and using it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090.md?page=5)