# Why exactly did gun culture blossom in the US and, seemingly, not in most other Western countries? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090 "2019-07-14T23:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/162 "2019-07-19T01:25:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep, and gone shooting with my relatives in Canada Then you need to get out more and be more observant. I have friends who feel **so** much safer around guns that if I had one and brought it out to proudly show them, they’d probably leave and never come back. Or at the very least, ask me to put it away and never bring it out again. And that’s more typical of the prevalent culture in Canada. For example, take the matter of the “daily carry” handgun. Not being a gun aficionado myself, I may have a detail or two wrong, but in broad outline this is the situation in Canada under federal law with respect to handguns. First, they are in the “restricted” category, meaning that an ordinary firearms acquisition license is not sufficient to buy one. The most common justification for a restricted firearm license for a handgun for the average person is being a member of a gun club. Once acquired, the handgun can only be transported between the home and the shooting range; it must be stored in a locked secure storage container during transport and must be equipped with a trigger lock, and you must have an Authorization to Transport permit from the Chief Firearms Officer in your province of residence. Being in possession of a handgun in any other circumstances is a serious criminal offense. The cultural difference from the US is vast and you don’t seem to really understand this. > [@DrDeth](#): > > People all over the world own guns for protection. Not anyone that I know in Canada – not a single soul, including farmers and hunters who own guns and regard them as tools for specific purposes and never give them a second thought otherwise, the guns spending most of their time securely locked up, unloaded, and trigger-locked, as legally required. The old “handgun in a bedroom table drawer” scenario as seen on TV and movies (a scene that usually precedes a homicide) would be a criminal offense in Canada, even in the very rare case that one actually had a restricted firearms license for a handgun. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/163 "2019-07-19T01:26:03Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Emphasis mine. “Let’s see, do I have everything I need to go grocery shopping … keys, wallet/purse, handgun …”. Only in America could such a statement be made, and considered unremarkable. Not intended as a personal criticism, this is the prevailing culture, and it’s absolutely unique to America among all advanced industrialized countries. That’s what this thread is about. But that is not correct. There are a whole lot of Americans (possibly a majority) who would find that very remarkable indeed. I was rather appalled at the dozen+ weapons that aruvqan listed. Where I live (Minneapolis, MN), such an arsenal would make people think that there was something other than normal about the owner. We’d certainly consider her in the group of ‘gun nuts’. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/164 "2019-07-19T01:38:44Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > But that is not correct. > > There are a whole lot of Americans (possibly a majority) who would find that very remarkable indeed. > > I was rather appalled at the dozen+ weapons that aruvqan listed. Where I live (Minneapolis, MN), such an arsenal would make people think that there was something other than normal about the owner. We’d certainly consider her in the group of ‘gun nuts’. Well, that’s reassuring, I guess. But it’s still correct to say that it’s unique to America that _ **a substantial number** _ of people would consider the idea of a “daily carry handgun” unremarkable, and, most importantly, that the concept is supported in law in most states. As I outlined in my immediately preceding post, try that in Canada (or the UK, or Australia, or virtually any European country) and you wind up in jail. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/165 "2019-07-19T01:40:37Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Then you need to get out more and be more observant. I have friends who feel **so** much safer around guns that if I had one and brought it out to proudly show them, they’d probably leave and never come back. Or at the very least, ask me to put it away and never bring it out again. And that’s more typical of the prevalent culture in Canada. > … The cultural difference from the US is vast and you don’t seem to really understand this. > > Not anyone that I know in Canada – not a single soul, including farmers and hunters who own guns and regard them as tools for specific purposes and never give them a second thought otherwise, the guns spending most of their time securely locked up, unloaded, and trigger-locked, as legally required. … Yes. and so? Yes, there are people afraid of guns. There are people afraid of big dogs. what’s your point? My relatives in Canada, Sask all have shotguns. Yes, they leave them locked up, but they showed me how fast they could get to them for a intruder on the farmstead. (in one case there were in a glass fronted case, which wasnt very secure, i thought)And they often carry them when out on their land. I have about 100 cousins and what not there. Only a couple own handguns true, and those are .22s, except one “Uncle” who is retired RCMP. However, my relatives in BC and Quebec don’t own guns. Except my ex-RMCP relative. I am quite aware of the culture in Canada, I am a citizen. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/166 "2019-07-19T01:50:00Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > But that is not correct. > > There are a whole lot of Americans (possibly a majority) who would find that very remarkable indeed. > > I was rather appalled at the dozen+ weapons that aruvqan listed. Where I live (Minneapolis, MN), such an arsenal would make people think that there was something other than normal about the owner. We’d certainly consider her in the group of ‘gun nuts’. Appalled? Really? A few hunting guns does not a gun nut make. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/167 "2019-07-19T01:56:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes. and so? Yes, there are people afraid of guns. There are people afraid of big dogs. what’s your point? It’s not a “fear” of guns, as if the gun might jump up and bite them. That’s really misrepresenting the situation. It’s what owning a gun with no real purpose – essentially for “fun” – says about the mindset of the owner. Or owning it out of some paranoia about “personal protection”. It’s not a fear of guns as such, it’s discomfort with what it says about the person who owns them (unless of course they have an obvious legitimate need). That’s the essence of the cultural difference, and you’re either not understanding it, or in denial of it. The cultural difference in a nutshell: American shows a new handgun to his friend, the friend says “hey, cool, I should get one like that, too!”; Canadian shows a new handgun to his friend, the friend says “you’re nuts, and possibly dangerous!” and leaves the premises, might call the police later if he believes it to be unlicensed. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/168 "2019-07-19T02:24:32Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > … American shows a new handgun to his friend, the friend says “hey, cool, I should get one like that, too!”; Canadian shows a new handgun to his friend, the friend says “you’re nuts, and possibly dangerous!” and leaves the premises, might call the police later if he believes it to be unlicensed. I honestly had no idea that our two cultures were so different. Friends ratting out each other on the chance that a new gun owner might not have jumped through the correct hoops? To what gain? I don’t get it. I do understand your point of view better now. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/169 "2019-07-19T02:35:38Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > It’s not a “fear” of guns, as if the gun might jump up and bite them. That’s really misrepresenting the situation. It’s what owning a gun with no real purpose – essentially for “fun” – says about the mindset of the owner. Or owning it out of some paranoia about “personal protection”. It’s not a fear of guns as such, it’s discomfort with what it says about the person who owns them (unless of course they have an obvious legitimate need). That’s the essence of the cultural difference, and you’re either not understanding it, or in denial of it. The cultural difference in a nutshell: American shows a new handgun to his friend, the friend says “hey, cool, I should get one like that, too!”; Canadian shows a new handgun to his friend, the friend says “you’re nuts, and possibly dangerous!” and leaves the premises, might call the police later if he believes it to be unlicensed. Nope, well at least not in \*rural \*Canada, where guns are quite common. In the cities you might be right. My cousins were happy to show me their target pistols. And their new shotguns, we even went duck hunting. And altho there are laws that require guns be locked up, on the farms, a .22 or a shotgun is there, ready to go for the common fox in the henhouse. Or Rustlers, last time I was there, there had been some livestock rustling and shotguns in pick up racks were pretty evident. Lots of guns in rural Canada, trust me. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/170 "2019-07-19T02:45:04Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > I honestly had no idea that our two cultures were so different. Friends ratting out each other on the chance that a new gun owner might not have jumped through the correct hoops? To what gain? I don’t get it. > > I do understand your point of view better now. Thanks. I’m glad I was able to elucidate the significant difference in gun culture between the US and, really, not just Canada but the rest of the comparable industrialized world. As for “ratting out” a friend, the point here is that someone suddenly out of the blue owning a handgun would be so unusual and so far outside cultural norms that it suggests at least the potential of dangerous behavior. Whereas in the US, where typically most people might not give it a second thought, exactly the same potential for dangerous behavior exists, but goes unrecognized because guns are so entrenched in the culture. Hence when there are sociological factors that drive an increase in mass shootings, they’re harder to detect. The Sandy Hook shooter had access to multiple lethal weapons that would all be restricted in Canada, and nobody gave it a second thought despite his mentally unstable background, because such weapons were all so commonplace. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/171 "2019-07-19T02:58:49Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > I honestly had no idea that our two cultures were so different. Friends ratting out each other on the chance that a new gun owner might not have jumped through the correct hoops? To what gain? I don’t get it. No Canadian would do such a thing. We’re too polite. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/172 "2019-07-19T03:09:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I… The cultural difference in a nutshell: American shows a new handgun to his friend, the friend says “hey, cool, I should get one like that, too!”; Canadian shows a new handgun to his friend, the friend says “you’re nuts, and possibly dangerous!” and leaves the premises, might call the police later if he believes it to be unlicensed. Actually, few Americans would do that either, unless they knew the friend was also into guns. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/173 "2019-07-19T03:20:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The whole point is that someone claimed the reason for early American support of gun rights was that they were racists and afraid of slave revolts, even the Northern states If by “someone” you mean me, you are misrepresenting my argument. I stated, and supported, the claim that early American gun-rights culture was strongly **influenced** by white racism, especially in the context of slaveowning, and that it’s not valid to try to consider early American gun-rights culture entirely in **isolation** from the issue of white racism. That is not the same thing as claiming that **“the”** reason for early American support of gun rights was **solely** racism and fear of slave revolts. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/174 "2019-07-19T03:25:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Actually, few Americans would do that either, unless they knew the friend was also into guns. I beg to differ. I wasn’t even a friend, just a guest/exchange student/summer job type person. I bonded with my (crazily, creepily, \*insistantly _religious) guests’ son over our love of heavy metal and he eventually invited me to his separate flat for beers… and to show me his pukka riot shotgun_ out of the blue. At no point had I indicated I was into guns - since I’m really not. I got a leeettle freaked out. - I’m talking about an Mossberg 500 or similar with pistol grip, front grip, short barrel, no stock… IOW a gun going out of its way not to be a hunting or sporting weapon. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/175 "2019-07-19T03:25:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If by “someone” you mean me, you are misrepresenting my argument. … Enough of this hijack- please. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/176 "2019-07-19T03:59:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Enough of this hijack- please. It isn’t a hijack. The question of the specific influences and motives affecting the development of gun-rights culture in early America, including the effects of issues such as slavery and white racism, is entirely relevant to the thread topic _“Why exactly did gun culture blossom in the US and, seemingly, not in most other Western countries?”_. You’re free to stop talking about it if you want to, but it’s not a hijack of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/177 "2019-07-19T14:22:16Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > It’s not a “fear” of guns, as if the gun might jump up and bite them. That’s really misrepresenting the situation. It’s what owning a gun with no real purpose – essentially for “fun” – says about the mindset of the owner. WTF are you talking about? Having guns for recreation is, outside of people who need them as a tool (farmers, cops, etc…) probably the sanest of reasons to own firearms. I mean, skeet shooting, sporting clays, and trap shooting are FUN. So is plinking tin cans. So is garden variety, every day target shooting. And none of them come with wingnut baggage about the 2nd Amendment or tyranny or evil Mexicans robbing homes, or anything absurd like that. I think a LOT of the conception of the mindset has a lot to do with one’s own familiarity with guns. I mean, if you’re experienced with them, and not afraid of them, they quit being some sort of object of awe, and become another sporting item or tool. A dangerous one to be sure, but the thought process is kind of like how you think about a relatively dangerous tool like a table saw or chain saw- you have to be very mindful and aware of what’s going on when you’re using/handling them, and in the case of guns, where/how you store them. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/178 "2019-07-19T17:04:03Z")
> [@bump](#): > > WTF are you talking about? Having guns for recreation is, outside of people who need them as a tool (farmers, cops, etc…) probably the sanest of reasons to own firearms. I don’t think we’re actually talking about people who own guns for specific recreational purposes such as sporting clays or plinking tin cans. I’m more concerned about the people who own guns for the sole purpose of owning guns. They’re not using the guns, not varmint hunting and not target shooting. The “fun” is just in _owning_ the guns, in being able to look in your gun cabinet or wherever and see them, touch them, gaze upon them, derive pleasure from the notion that these objects belong to you. I’ve known a couple of people like that, who owned dozens upon dozens of guns, who did not use them recreationally or vocationally. The majority of the guns were recent models, not rare or historic or special in themselves, and frequently they had multiples of the same model(s). How many Ruger P89s or Chinese-made SKS rifles does one person need to have for no other purpose but to be able to say they have them? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/179 "2019-07-19T17:25:19Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > I don’t think we’re actually talking about people who own guns for specific recreational purposes such as sporting clays or plinking tin cans. I’m more concerned about the people who own guns for the sole purpose of owning guns. They’re not using the guns, not varmint hunting and not target shooting. The “fun” is just in _owning_ the guns, in being able to look in your gun cabinet or wherever and see them, touch them, gaze upon them, derive pleasure from the notion that these objects belong to you. > > I’ve known a couple of people like that, who owned dozens upon dozens of guns, who did not use them recreationally or vocationally. The majority of the guns were recent models, not rare or historic or special in themselves, and frequently they had multiples of the same model(s). How many Ruger P89s or Chinese-made SKS rifles does one person need to have for no other purpose but to be able to say they have them? Even at that, collecting is a sensible thing- these aren’t the guys who are going out shooting stuff up, or doing wacky stuff with them. In my experience, the collectors aren’t a whole lot different than any other collectors of expensive mechanical objects like cars- they may periodically take one out and put a few rounds through them, but for the most part, the hobby is about the collecting. Lots of people have ‘gadget acquisition disorder’ in any hobby; if you like to \ you’ll probably buy a bunch of crap you don’t end up using that may duplicate some functionality of other things you already have. Gun collecting/shooting isn’t any different. He may want to have all the variants of the SKS he can find; no different than wanting all the coins/stamps in a set. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/180 "2019-07-19T17:28:46Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > It’s not a “fear” of guns, as if the gun might jump up and bite them. That’s really misrepresenting the situation. It’s what owning a gun with no real purpose – essentially for “fun” – says about the mindset of the owner. Or owning it out of some paranoia about “personal protection”. It’s not a fear of guns as such, it’s discomfort with what it says about the person who owns them (unless of course they have an obvious legitimate need). That’s the essence of the cultural difference, and you’re either not understanding it, or in denial of it. The cultural difference in a nutshell: American shows a new handgun to his friend, the friend says “hey, cool, I should get one like that, too!”; Canadian shows a new handgun to his friend, the friend says “you’re nuts, and possibly dangerous!” and leaves the premises, might call the police later if he believes it to be unlicensed. And yet here I am, talking to my co-workers about buying some land together for the sole purpose of filling it full of lead. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090/181 "2019-07-19T17:44:12Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Gun collecting/shooting isn’t any different. He may want to have all the variants of the SKS he can find; no different than wanting all the coins/stamps in a set. He wasn’t collecting variants of the SKS; he was accumulating identical copies. If you knew somebody who went down to the post office and bought $2000 worth of a [common flag definitive stamp](https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2007/html/pb22203/info2.5.4.html), all identical (no variations or errors or oddballs, just piles of the same stamp in identical booklets), would you think they were demonstrating typical collector mentality? I don’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-did-gun-culture-blossom-in-the-us-and-seemingly-not-in-most-other-western-countries/837090.md?page=10)