# Why exactly is music unlawful in Islam and particularly stringed instruments? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 6, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162 "2017-02-06T14:53:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dofe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dofe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dofe)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/21 "2017-02-07T00:06:33Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > I recently watched Frontline’s “[Saudi Arabia Uncovered](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/saudi-arabia-uncovered/)”, and remember this section that discusses the ‘Religious Police’ and shows their tactics for harassing people playing a lute in public (19:45 - 22:20). The rest of the program is not flattering to SA, if you care to watch the whole thing. > > I dunno. I would like to think it is the wacky fringe with this belief, but a group of young people sitting in a park in Saudi Arabia playing music and getting assaulted in public makes it seem like more than just a minority, at least in that country. It probably varies from place to place, as mentioned, but I would not think SA is a small minority of Islam. Our muslim posters might be in a better position to explain this, but my understanding is that Saudi Arabia’s interpretation of Islam, based on Wahhabi beliefs, is not considered mainstream by most practitioners. Steve Coll’s [The Bin Ladens](https://www.amazon.com/Bin-Ladens-Arabian-American-Century/dp/0143114816) goes into some fascinating detail about how Saudi Arabia’s interpretation of Islam grew from what was once just a small sect that originated from “desert culture stoicism” (as **Tamerlane** puts it) into prominence over the other forms of the religion largely because of its close association to the Saudi royal family. In exchange for promoting Wahhabi beliefs and “purify” Islam from what they viewed as heretical practices, the founder of the Saudi royal royal family was able to obtain military help from t[he cleric who founded Wahhabism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Abd_al-Wahhab)to conquer much of what is Saudi Arabia today. As oil wealth poured into Saudi Arabia, the government, either formally or through donations by royal family members, started funding schools and publications that exported their strict interpretations into other parts of the world. This saw its apex during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, radicalizing much of the area. That is to say, what we in the West view as a prominent interpretation of Islam is not necessarily what is practiced outside of Saudi Arabia or historically. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/22 "2017-02-07T01:34:30Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > It probably varies from place to place, as mentioned, but I would not think SA is a small minority of Islam. It really is. SA has a population of ~31 million ( not all Sunni ) which is probably pretty close to the worldwide total for the Wahhabi sect as well ( not all SA Muslims are Wahhabi, but overwhelmingly they live in SA and the neighboring Gulf states ). That’s out of about 1.7 billion Muslims. It really can’t be emphasized enough just how much of an outlier they are. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/23 "2017-02-07T02:42:10Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > It really is. SA has a population of ~31 million ( not all Sunni ) which is probably pretty close to the worldwide total for the Wahhabi sect as well ( not all SA Muslims are Wahhabi, but overwhelmingly they live in SA and the neighboring Gulf states ). That’s out of about 1.7 billion Muslims. It really can’t be emphasized enough just how much of an outlier they are. Agree, and thanks for putting it that way. I guess my view is that SA is more visible on the world stage as well as in the US, due to them being an ally in the region, and due to their main export. It’s interesting that Wahhabism being pushed in SA is mainly at odds with US human rights positions, yet we easily look the other way as a matter of convenience. Anyway, back to the OP. It would be good to have any of our resident Muslim dopers weight-in on that. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/24 "2017-02-07T03:00:57Z")
> [@ElderSign](#): > > Because of these: > > “Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 15, Number 72: Narrated Aisha: Abu Bakr came to my house while two small Ansari girls were singing beside me the stories of the Ansar concerning the Day of Buath. And they were not singers. Abu Bakr said protestingly, “Musical instruments of Satan in the house of Allah’s Apostle !” It happened on the ‘Id day and Allah’s Apostle said, “O Abu Bakr! There is an ‘Id for every nation and this is our ‘Id.”” > > ““Anas ibn Malik related from the Prophet that, “two cursed sounds are that of the musical instrument(mizmaar) played on the occasion of joy and grace, and the woeful wailing upon the occasion of adversity.”” There’s a third hadith on this topic. Even though I’m unable to remember it precisely, it’s about some companion of the prophet who chastises musicians he meets on the road. But of course whether his opinion is authoritative or just a personal dislike nobody should care about is open to debate. Note that the second one you quote allows for the use of some instruments in some circumstances, and that the first one is used also to support the opposite stance : that music is in fact lawful. If you read comments of Muslim scholars who condemn music, you’ll note that their opposition is based not only on interpretation of scriptures, but also on the usual puritanical reasons : it encourages bad behaviours and distracts from religion. Finally, some conservative clerics argue that since the issue isn’t clearly settled, it’s better to stay on the safe side and abstain from listening to music just in case it would in fact be haram. I would note that it’s for the same reason that they want people to grow a beard, this being also based on a hadith whose meaning is very disputable. This kind of reasoning (“let’s stay on the safe side”) seems also to have been the rule in the Jewish rabbinic tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/25 "2017-02-08T00:40:54Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Agree, and thanks for putting it that way. I guess my view is that SA is more visible on the world stage as well as in the US, due to them being an ally in the region, and due to their main export. It’s interesting that Wahhabism being pushed in SA is mainly at odds with US human rights positions, yet we easily look the other way as a matter of convenience. > > Anyway, back to the OP. It would be good to have any of our resident Muslim dopers weight-in on that. there is nothing to weigh in on, the idea is wrong. [The oud](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oud)would not have been refined and developed in the Islamic world. It is not new, the celebration of the music. So you can enjoy the music like the lamentation of [Ya Rayah](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBM1r9HWWc0), or the sudanese [Umri ma bansa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuztId3TWHk), and even the Wahhabi oriented Khalij - Gulf, it it the music is popular and people do not like the puritanical ones, so you can be amused by the silliness of the Emirati, [Al Jassmi](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUBvVTNRp4Q). The Saudis and the salafiste that they promote are the ones engaged in bida3. The idea that the music is banned or the instruments has no good support, it is just the usual game of the sour unpleasant ones, as clairobscur says, it is the usual argument of the puritanicals in any religion. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/26 "2017-02-08T00:52:33Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Agree, and thanks for putting it that way. I guess my view is that SA is more visible on the world stage as well as in the US, due to them being an ally in the region, and due to their main export. Also due to SA being oil-rich, and funding Wahhabist religious training for religious teacher of other countries and other tradtionss. Indonesian religion is being heavily influenced by SA religion by this method. You may find that even in the USA, some of your religious leaders have had education in SA. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/27 "2017-02-08T14:38:00Z")
I’m no expert on Islam, and of course anecdotes do not equal data, but I think most of Turkey would be very surprised to hear music is unlawful in Islam. I spent a year in Ankara teaching English and they pretty much used any excuse they could to play music. Instrument stores were quite easy to find (had my violin re-strung at one and learned a couple of folk tunes while I was there), and I still have a number of books on Turkish music theory I need to go through someday. Fascinating stuff. They have a tradition of folk music called _fasıl_ that is played in cafés, restaurants, and bars everywhere. As has been tangentially pointed out above, the quotes cited come from a collection of _hadith_, which are narratives that do not form part of the Quran (in fact, most were written centuries afterward); they are not universally accepted by all branches of Islam as applicable religious doctrine. Though some do, it’s a mistake to assume that they therefore apply to Islam as a whole. Much the same way as assuming all Christians hate homosexuals after running across a demonstration by the Westboro Baptist Church. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/28 "2017-02-10T09:37:54Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > Wait, what? Islamic tradition says that [cats are awesome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_cats). That does not pertain to eating them, which is what the poster spoke about. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/29 "2017-02-12T06:12:51Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > …When she asked for clarification, they explained that the drum was an “instrument of leisure,” rather than an “instrument of music.” > [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > There’s a Todd Rundgren joke to be had here, but I can’t quite come up with one… _I am not wishing to engage in work/ I am merely wanting to make the bang on my instrument of leisure for the entire duration of a day._ ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/30 "2017-02-12T06:37:46Z")
You know all those a capella groups with vocal percussion? Those are really popular with the Church of God people I know. I also note they seem to be better natural singers. I wonder if the same is true in those Islamic sects, or if vocal percussion would be too secular. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/31 "2017-02-12T15:21:26Z")
?? What are you asking? What ‘sects’? The people against music are against all music, not instruments. They only believe Quranic recitation, which they exclude from the idea of music, as the sole thing of valid distraction. ---
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/32 "2017-02-12T20:59:52Z")
**Ambrosio Spinola:** Thank you for posting that link. I was unaware of that, and it made my day. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/33 "2017-02-12T21:17:37Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > It isn’t. As noted, it’s only the lunatic fringe that bans music. > > Some of my favourite musicians are Muslims. Yes. Think Bible Belt and dancing. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/34 "2017-02-13T01:36:52Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I was going to write a longer post, but really there is a [wiki on the topic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_music#Permissibility_of_music) that is adequate. > > In short as noted it is in these modern days a minority position that instrumental music is forbidden, but you can certainly find Muslims to adhere to it. Just as you can find Christians who do so as well ( though far fewer of them ). Also note that even the anti-music extremists of both traditions generally are okay with _vocals_ - it is instruments that are problematic. Besides the Church of Christ, the Eastern Orthodox apparently don’t use musical instruments either, so it’s not _that_ small a minority of Christians. [http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/why-do-the-orthodox-not-use-musical-instruments-in-worship/](http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/why-do-the-orthodox-not-use-musical-instruments-in-worship/) ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/35 "2017-02-13T05:53:35Z")
The Quran and hadith are vague as to why they would ban some music or suggest specific music (so that the suggestion is that is all that is allowed.) It would seem to be that mostly they ban worshiping false gods… or letting the musicians words influence their life too much. Perhaps the idea was that the instruments from europe would come with european music… ergo christian themes. But the various quotes do not specify WHY… it was always a bad question because no can work out WHAT let alone WHY. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/36 "2017-02-13T08:01:39Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Besides the Church of Christ, the Eastern Orthodox apparently don’t use musical instruments either, so it’s not _that_ small a minority of Christians. That’s strictly in a liturgical sense, though. My Eastern Orthodox grandmother was quite the fan of Hee Haw ;). I think the discussion here was focused more on a shunning of instrumental music generally, not just in the context of worship. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/37 "2017-02-13T08:53:33Z")
Saudi Arabia has a national anthem, though. How did that happen? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Room](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_room/32/5069_2.png) [@Little\_Room](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Room)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/38 "2017-02-14T14:27:51Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I don’t think that was it; I’m familiar with Church of Christ (and, yes, they are ultra-conservative on many things, including baptism). ISTR that the guys I met were members of a very small denomination (might have even been one independent congregation). I don’t remember them saying anything about an issue with instrumental accompaniment, but it was specifically that only the Psalms from the Old Testament were allowed to be sung in their worship services. > > The topic had come up because singing modern-day Christian music was a big part of fellowship with a lot of these college groups, and during one of those sing-alongs, they noted that they enjoyed getting a chance to sing such songs, since it was something that they couldn’t do during their church services. I’m aware that there is a subset of fundamentalist Presbyterians who have this belief…the Psalms-only folks are indeed distinct from the no-instruments folks, who sing all sorts of songs! ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162/39 "2017-02-14T15:30:27Z")
> [@Little\_Room](#): > > I’m aware that there is a subset of fundamentalist Presbyterians who have this belief…the Psalms-only folks are indeed distinct from the no-instruments folks, who sing all sorts of songs! When I googled “Psalms only Presbyterian”, I found that there is, in fact, a Wikipedia entry on denominations which only sing Psalms, and that there’s a term for it – “[exclusive psalmody](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_psalmody).” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-exactly-is-music-unlawful-in-islam-and-particularly-stringed-instruments/779162.md?page=1)