# Why "farve" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 30, 2007, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547 "2007-10-30T05:37:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/21 "2007-10-30T14:56:53Z")
It’s not just in the south where French names get murdered…here in Illinois, we have the Des Plaines river & town, both pronounced with the “s” sound at the end. And the town of Bourbonnais, which has always been pronounced by the locals as “Bour-bone-iss” (although some are trying to pretend as though it’s always been pronounced “Bour-bon-ay.”) ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/22 "2007-10-30T15:07:07Z")
I’m reminded of a comedy show (was it Sha Na Na?) where they were basically making fun of Sade pronouncing her name as “Sharday”. They started saying other band names and ending them with “Sharday”. i.e. Pink Sade, Sade Joel, etc. Anyone else remember that? ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/23 "2007-10-30T15:23:38Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] It’s not just in the south where French names get murdered…here in Illinois, we have the Des Plaines river & town, both pronounced with the “s” sound at the end. And the town of Bourbonnais, which has always been pronounced by the locals as “Bour-bone-iss” (although some are trying to pretend as though it’s always been pronounced “Bour-bon-ay.”) [/QUOTE] When was the last time you heard St. Louis as “San Louie” or Detroit as “Dey-Twa”? ---
**Author:** ![Anaptyxis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anaptyxis/32/3171_2.png) [@Anaptyxis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaptyxis)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/24 "2007-10-30T16:02:43Z")
[QUOTE=FatBaldGuy] That said, I still have a hard time with Duke’s basketball coach, Mike Krzyzewski. No matter how hard I try, I can’t get “Chi-chef-ski” out of that spelling. [/QUOTE] Forgive my minor hijack. I find Polish spelling even more fun than English. First, you gotta break down the first four letters as follows: K rz y The digraph (two letters used to convey one sound) \ gives you “zh” (as in the last consonant sound in the word “garage”). The \ is pronounced like short English “i” as in “sin”. The next letter \ actually should be a \ with a dot over it. I’m not sure my keyboard will give me one for you all but here’s an attempt: \<ż\>. It is also pronounced “zh”. The \ is what you’d expect. (Joy!) The \ is pronounced “v” by default, but devoices here to “f” thanks to the following voiceless consonant. Put it all together and you get: “K shi shEf ski”. (Stress is always on the penultimate syllable in Polish.) ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/25 "2007-10-30T16:06:21Z")
What about Gagne (Gahn-yeh) and Jeter (Zhay-tay). You guys in the US butcher French names. Belanger (Bel-ahn-zhey) is another one. At least Stephen Cohl-bear get his name right. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/26 "2007-10-30T16:13:10Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] When was the last time you heard St. Louis as “San Louie” or Detroit as “Dey-Twa”? [/QUOTE] Well, sometimes you hear Dey-Twa, but more as a joke. No one calls Joliet “Joliay” either. But that doesn’t mean those are the correct pronunciations! ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/27 "2007-10-30T16:20:56Z")
Not really releveant to the OP, but there are a couple of football players who name pronunciations did change at some point- Joe Thiesman’s name was not pronounced to rhyme with Heisman IIRC until he was in college. Tony Dorsett changed from dor-sit to dor-set at some point, and Mark “Super” Duper somehow changed his name from Dupas to Duper- I guess with the nickname in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/28 "2007-10-30T16:28:38Z")
[QUOTE=FatBaldGuy] I agree that the name should be pronounced the way the owner of the name specifies. If he wants to be “Farve” so be it. That said, I still have a hard time with Duke’s basketball coach, Mike Krzyzewski. No matter how hard I try, I can’t get “Chi-chef-ski” out of that spelling. [/QUOTE] I can top that. My extended family’s name is Przybysz. 8 letters, no vowels. Try pronouncing THAT! Prez-bis in english, pr-shib’-sh in Polish. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/29 "2007-10-30T16:30:40Z")
[QUOTE=IntelSoldier] I can top that. My extended family’s name is Przybysz. 8 letters, no vowels. Try pronouncing THAT! Prez-bis in english, pr-shib’-sh in Polish. [/QUOTE] Funny. I see two vowels. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/30 "2007-10-30T16:40:56Z")
I lived in Stevens Point, WI for many years, I can pronounce any Polish name. “Przybysz” would be “shib-ish” ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/31 "2007-10-30T17:27:59Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] That’s [beachum] the usual southern pronunciation of Beauchamp. [/QUOTE] You’re kidding! Must remember that. Do they pronounce Beaulieu “Baloo” down there too? ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/32 "2007-10-30T18:55:24Z")
I have known three people whose last names were Gagne. Guh NAY, GONE-yah, and GahNAY. I know two Riordans (actually, more, but two pronunciations) REEordan, and Rye-ORdan. I’ve known a Taliaferro = Tolliver and a Taliaferro = TahlyaFAIRoh. And how the hell does geoduck get pronounced GOOeyduck? Not that that’s anyone’s name, but it should be. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/33 "2007-10-30T19:01:35Z")
> [@](#): > > I lived in Stevens Point, WI for many years, I can pronounce any Polish name. > > “Przybysz” would be “shib-ish” Not quite – that “p” is in there. It’s “p’shi-bish” this is exasctly the example I use to show Polish pronunciation (It’s on a tombstone in my home town) My understanding about “geoduck” is that it has been written “geoduck” and “goeduck”. I KNOW I’ve seen it that way in my encyclopedia, years ago. Obviously they used one form for pronunciation, then promoted the other for spelling, rather like the “colonel/coronel” fiasco. ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/34 "2007-10-30T19:22:52Z")
[QUOTE=IntelSoldier] I can top that. My extended family’s name is Przybysz. 8 letters, no vowels. Try pronouncing THAT! [/QUOTE] Hey, I went to college at WVU in the late 70s with a Frank Przybysz from the 'burbs of Pittsburgh. Any relation? (I know, I know, there’s lots of Poles in the 'Burgh, but thought I’d take a shot.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/35 "2007-10-30T19:30:06Z")
[QUOTE=August West] I lived in Stevens Point, WI for many years, I can pronounce any Polish name. “Przybysz” would be “shib-ish” [/QUOTE] As **Cal** pointed out, the initial “p” is pronounced, so “PSHIH-bish” would be the closest way of spelling the sounds out in English. Polish does not, in general, have silent letters (there are, though, digraphs like “rz,” “cz,” “ch,” and “sz” as well as a terminal "ł " which is silent when it unvoices the previous consonant in the 3rd person past tense.) Almost all instances of letters being seemingly dropped in pronunciations of Polish names has to do with avoiding awkward consonant clusters, like “krz” or “prz,” which are not found in native English words. I grew up speaking Polish, and know how all Polish last names are pronounced in Poland. However, when meeting somebody with a Polish last name here, I ask, because very often the “correct” pronunciation is not the pronunciation the family uses here. Even my last name, Pawinski, is pronounced “poe-WIN-skee” in English, although the Polish pronunciation is “pah-WEEÑ-skee.” To be honest, I’m not particularly about how people say my last name, because there isn’t a “correct” way in English. We’re the first generation born here, so we pretty much decide ourselves how to say it. In my opinion, “poe-WIN-skee,” “puh-VIN-skee,” “pah-VEEN-skee,” “paw-WIN-skee” are all find pronunciations, but we kinda settled on the first for consistency, and that seems to be the easiest and most natural for English speakers, with the last pronunciation noted being the second most popular. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/36 "2007-10-30T19:31:17Z")
I feel the OP’s pain. Everyone always looks at me funny when I refer to that red fruit as an “app-lay”. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/37 "2007-10-30T19:40:26Z")
I was just in Poland last week, in Gdańsk, and had to ask directions to an address in the district of Wrzeszcz… (That’s “v-zhesh-ch”. I think.) Anyway, re the OP, why on Earth would you pronounce Favre as “Fav-ray”? There’s no accent on the “e”. Final “e” is not usually pronounced in French. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/38 "2007-10-30T19:43:48Z")
My mother is Polish, and has relatives whose name is pronounced Mick-o-why-check. I have absolutely no idea how to spell it, and I swear that different people in the family spell it different ways. ---
**Author:** ![DustyButt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc348/32.png) [@DustyButt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DustyButt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/39 "2007-10-30T19:48:29Z")
I remember the first time I met someone with the name Knaagktaborgne. I froze upon coming across it causing him to say “Knock-Toe-Born” My eloquent response… “Oh $#it that’s easy!” Three years later I met a woman with the same last name, I pronounced it flawlessly. And, yes. I’m sure it wasn’t the same dude after an operation… I think. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547/40 "2007-10-30T20:00:47Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] My mother is Polish, and has relatives whose name is pronounced Mick-o-why-check. I have absolutely no idea how to spell it, and I swear that different people in the family spell it different ways. [/QUOTE] Probably “Mikołajczak.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-farve/424547.md?page=3)