WHY God?

In many ways, though, I think Jesus’ Royal Two do undercut the Old Testament, particularly many of the laws of Leviticus. Back in March, Esprix and I had a lengthy discussion with Zev Steinhardt in the Refuting Scripture thread about whether morals change.

You can read Zev’s answers, which to him seem completely consistent. I find his explanation unsatisfactory. Zev is Jewish so Jesus’ Royal Two don’t apply to his answers, but how would you respond to the charge of moral relativity in the Bible in relation to your belief in an objective morality.

Specifically, the OT law orders homosexuals put to death. This seems to me to be a clear violation of “Love Everyone”. Also, slavery is endorsed in the OT. Again, to me, a clear violation of “Love Everyone”.

So the multi-part question is, are the laws given in Leviticus really from God? If so, then did Objective Morality change? If the Leviticus laws are from God, then isn’t Jesus’ message is a radical change? Or another answer that you can supply.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Homebrew *

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I would agree with you about the OT – the ceremonial aspects of the Law and those aspects of the Law that have to do with the administration of theocratic justice within national Israel – to some degree. But I still don’t think there’s anything about the 2 that actually contradicts the 10. As I said, there is a great deal about the work of Christ that is shocking in light of the OT, taken on its own terms. If it were not so, Christianity would be theologically indistinct from Judaism.

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I would respond that God acts within time, and therefore, does change the ways in which he reveals himself, to fit the circumstances in which his people live.

Aspects of the administration of the Law that have not been reiterated in the NT have been left un-reiterated, because the purposes for which they were handed down no longer apply in the Church Age. God’s people no longer exist solely within the theocracy of national Israel, nor is their worship confined to the Temple. Israel was a nation ‘holy unto the Lord’, with certain cultic practices required of them by God. As such, God directed that they conduct themselves in certain ways.

We in the Church are scattered among the nations and living in a totally different dispensation (loaded word that I use for lack of a better one) of God’s Grace. We no longer live in a theocratic nation state, and the Spirit now dwells within us, rather than in the Temple. As such, God has set up some rules for our conduct and worship that do look different from those that he gave to national Israel.

I don’t think that this necessarily suggests that God has now adopted a different attitude about homosexual activity. The mere fact that God does not require the Church to execute homesexuals need not be taken as an endorsement of homosexual activity. (And the mere fact that I have used the phrase “does not require” should under no circumstances be taken as an indication that I think it might still be the pious thing to do. I was trying to wrestle with some of this in my earlier response to Polycarp, just after the introduction of Swedish grundlag.)

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Given the fact that slaves were to be set free every 7 years within Israel, and the fact that the Law made provisions for slaves who freely chose to remain with their masters, and the fact that the OT law is quite clear that slaves are not to be treated as livestock, but rather, humanely and as fully human, I don’t think that we’re talking about exactly the same thing as slavery in the Confederate States of America. So, I’m not sure that there’s necessarily a conflict between Christ’s injunction in the NT to love one’s neighbor and the Law’s conception of slavery in the OT, or that God has endorsed the love of neighbor in any more emphatic sense in the NT than he did in the OT.

Your larger point in all of this is a fair one, though. And I have not stated myself clearly if you think that I reject it. There is both continuity and discontinuity between OT and NT. Much of the history of Christian theology – as I’m sure you know – has been the process of trying to hash out the relationship between Grace and Law.

I lean in the direction of covenant theology, with regard to the Grace-Law dynamic. I gather that you are more of a Dispensational guy? Or have I missed the joke, and you’re a non-believer who thinks the Bible is hopelessly conflicted? I’m sorry to ask silly questions. I have really lost track of who’s who around here. I am getting put through the paces on this one.

–B

I’m still trying to figure out the answer to that myself. I am what Bishop Spong calls a “Believer in Exile” in his book Why Christianity Must Change or Die.

I am looking for a way to keep God relevant in the modern world, but I’m not certain there is a way. As Spong wrote about himself, for me the orthodox God of the past has died and I am in a state of exile from the faith of my heritage.

I am searching for a path through the exile. What emerges will be either a radically different way of thinking of God or atheism.

Discussions such as these help. Thank you, and others throughout this thread and especially Polycarp, for your insights.

Only Jewish slaves were set free at the beginning of every seventh year (or at Jubilee). Foreign slaves could be slaves for life:

Leviticus 25
1
The LORD said to Moses on Mount Sinai, […]
44
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45
You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46
You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites* ruthlessly.

What are the OT verses you are referencing here?

*[sub]referrring to the Jews[/sub]