# Why has religious belief eroded in Europe but not the United States? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2013, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198 "2013-12-01T08:15:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/121 "2013-12-05T17:18:13Z")
Finally, thank you! I wonder: Are these numbers rising, or have they been stable over the last, what, two or three decades or so? If they’re rising, how quickly are they rising? How long before we have a European country with an irreligious majority? Ps. France above Sweden - wouldn’t have guessed it. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/122 "2013-12-05T17:31:13Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Finally, thank you! > > I wonder: Are these numbers rising, or have they been stable over the last, what, two or three decades or so? If they’re rising, how quickly are they rising? How long before we have a European country with an irreligious majority? > > Ps. France above Sweden - wouldn’t have guessed it. The same poll with the same methodology and questions was carried out in [2005.](http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/ebs/ebs_225_report_en.pdf) At that time, the Europe-wide numbers were 52% believing in a God, 27% believing in some sort of spirit or life force, and 18% not believing in either. In 2010, the numbers were 51/26/20, so non-belief is on the rise. In that five-year period, France’s non-believers increased from 33% to 40%, so my money’s on them for the first irreligious majority in Europe (discounting non-free nations like the former East Germany). Further, even the “spirit or life force” adherents represent an erosion of traditional Abrahamic religion. The [same thing is happening in the U.S.](http://religions.pewforum.org/reports): > [@](#): > > More than one-quarter of American adults (28%) have left the faith in which they were raised in favor of another religion - or no religion at all. If change in affiliation from one type of Protestantism to another is included, 44% of adults have either switched religious affiliation, moved from being unaffiliated with any religion to being affiliated with a particular faith, or dropped any connection to a specific religious tradition altogether. > > The survey finds that the number of people who say they are unaffiliated with any particular faith today (16.1%) is more than double the number who say they were not affiliated with any particular religion as children. Among Americans ages 18-29, one-in-four say they are not currently affiliated with any particular religion. …it’s just slower and less dramatic. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/123 "2013-12-05T17:43:20Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > In that five-year period, France’s non-believers increased from 33% to 40%, so my money’s on them for the first irreligious majority in Europe (discounting non-free nations like the former East Germany). Is it wrong if I quietly feel somewhat smug about this right now ? Quietly like ? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/124 "2013-12-05T17:44:30Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Is it wrong if I quietly feel somewhat smug about this right now ? Quietly like ? As long as you accept that there are probably some American theist types feeling smug using the same data. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/125 "2013-12-05T17:54:29Z")
Well, naturally. Americans ! _complex dismissive bodily gesture, the layers of meaning of which you uncultured types couldn’t hope to grasp_ _raspberry_ ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/126 "2013-12-05T19:02:13Z")
Got it. High numbers in the EU’s three most populous countries - France (40%), Germany (27%) and the U.K. (25%). That’s an _enormous_ amount of European non-believers, fully justifying the thread title’s claim that religious belief has “eroded.” On the other hand, with 20% non-believers in the EU-27 all in all, that still leaves 80% believers - a _huge_ majority. Presumably - and I don’t have a cite to back this up - that majority was even bigger a hundred years ago, but still, 4 out of 5 ain’t bad, right? So, yes, it certainly looks as if religious belief has “eroded.” But has it “completely collapsed,” as **Lemur866** claimed? Clearly not. And does it seem as if what **bob++** claimed, without cite, to be true of England - that there, “for most people religion of any kind is largely perceived as irrelevant to their lives” - is true for Europe at large? Doesn’t look that way, no. I’m up for throwing a party when France crawls up over 50%, though. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/127 "2013-12-05T21:07:58Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Got it. High numbers in the EU’s three most populous countries - France (40%), Germany (27%) and the U.K. (25%). That’s an _enormous_ amount of European non-believers, fully justifying the thread title’s claim that religious belief has “eroded.” I concur, eroded but not collapsed. > [@Stekan](#): > > On the other hand, with 20% non-believers in the EU-27 all in all, that still leaves 80% believers - a _huge_ majority. Presumably - and I don’t have a cite to back this up - that majority was even bigger a hundred years ago, but still, 4 out of 5 ain’t bad, right? Well, yes and no. 80% of Europeans (though only 54% of Frenchmen, 69% of Germans, 60% of Czechs, etc) believe in _something_, but only 51% believe in a traditional God. Belief in a life force, spirits, etc (e.g. the increasingly popular [“spiritual but not religious”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_but_not_religious) isn’t “religion” in the traditional sense of Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, etc. Thus, those folks can be said to be eroding religious practice just as the full-out non-believers are. According to [this article](http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/Ath-Chap-under-7000.pdf) (a nice one, it details the difficulties of measuring atheism, and how far more people are willing to report non-belief if the word “atheist” isn’t used): > [@](#): > > According to Bruce (2002) and Gill et al (1998), survey data from the 1960s found that 79% of the British held a belief in God, but this dropped down to 68% in surveys taken in the 1990s; whereas only 10% answered that they “don’t believe in God” in the 1960s, this percentage had almost tripled to 27% in the 1990s. According to Bruce (2001), surveys in the 1950s found that only 2% of the British replied they did not believe in God; that percentage was up to 27% in the 1990s. According to Palm and Trost (2000), when Swedes were asked in 1947 “Do you believe in God?” 83% said yes, 9% said they didn’t know, and 8% said no. In the early 1990s, in response to the same question, only 38% said yes, 16% didn’t know, and 46% said they did not. > [@Stekan](#): > > So, yes, it certainly looks as if religious belief has “eroded.” But has it “completely collapsed,” as **Lemur866** claimed? Clearly not. And does it seem as if what **bob++** claimed, without cite, to be true of England - that there, “for most people religion of any kind is largely perceived as irrelevant to their lives” - is true for Europe at large? Doesn’t look that way, no. > > I’m up for throwing a party when France crawls up over 50%, though. The original poll is behind a paywall, but [this article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_europe#Gallup_poll_2007.E2.80.932008) shows the result of a 2008 Gallup poll, in which Europeans were asked, “Does religion occupy an important place in your life?” In 24 European countries, more people said “No” than “Yes”, led by Estonia at 84%, Sweden at 83%, and Denmark at 80%. When compared to the God/life force/no belief Eurobarometer poll, it shows that relatively few of the believers actually consider their beliefs important to their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/128 "2013-12-05T21:49:47Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Well, yes and no. 80% of Europeans (though only 54% of Frenchmen, 69% of Germans, 60% of Czechs, etc) believe in _something_, but only 51% believe in a traditional God. Belief in a life force, spirits, etc (e.g. the increasingly popular [“spiritual but not religious”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_but_not_religious) isn’t “religion” in the traditional sense of Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, etc. Thus, those folks can be said to be eroding religious practice just as the full-out non-believers are. I’d say that the 20% who “believe in nothing” (nothing, Mr. Lebowski - nothing!) - _they’re_ the ones doing the eroding. But the “spiritual but not religious” crowd - the ones who may not follow a traditional religion, and yet believe “in _something_,” be it a god, several gods, a spirit, a life force or whatevah - are not _eroding_ religious belief as much as they are _transforming_ it. Perhaps it could be said that the SBNR crowd are eroding _some forms_ of religious belief (the major “Christianities” in Europe and beyond), but not that they’re eroding religious belief _itself_. Of course, the OP originally asked for the erosion of “religious belief,” generally, but then much of the discussion ended up being about the decline of (different forms of) Christianity, as if Christianity and “religious belief” were one and the same, or somehow inextricably linked to each other. They’re not. Will read the Zuckerman .pdf, thank you! > [@Human\_Action](#): > > The original poll is behind a paywall, but [this article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_europe#Gallup_poll_2007.E2.80.932008) shows the result of a 2008 Gallup poll, in which Europeans were asked, “Does religion occupy an important place in your life?” > > In 24 European countries, more people said “No” than “Yes”, led by Estonia at 84%, Sweden at 83%, and Denmark at 80%. When compared to the God/life force/no belief Eurobarometer poll, it shows that relatively few of the believers actually consider their beliefs important to their lives. That is remarkable, thank you! Very fascinating! Does a religious belief still count as a religious belief if it isn’t considered by the believer to “occupy an important place” in his or her life!? Tricky stuff, this! ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/129 "2013-12-05T22:00:17Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > I’d say that the 20% who “believe in nothing” (nothing, Mr. Lebowski - nothing!) - _they’re_ the ones doing the eroding. > > But the “spiritual but not religious” crowd - the ones who may not follow a traditional religion, and yet believe “in _something_,” be it a god, several gods, a spirit, a life force or whatevah - are not _eroding_ religious belief as much as they are _transforming_ it. > > Perhaps it could be said that the SBNR crowd are eroding _some forms_ of religious belief (the major “Christianities” in Europe and beyond), but not that they’re eroding religious belief _itself_. Fair point. It could be said then that the SBNR are eroding _religions_ (Catholicism, Protestantism, etc), but not religious belief itself. > [@Stekan](#): > > Of course, the OP originally asked for the erosion of “religious belief,” generally, but then much of the discussion ended up being about the decline of (different forms of) Christianity, as if Christianity and “religious belief” were one and the same, or somehow inextricably linked to each other. They’re not. > > Will read the Zuckerman .pdf, thank you! Since the question concerned the U.S. and Europe, both of which are majority Christian, that sort of focus is part and parcel of the discussion. Surely some Europeans are leaving Christianity to become Muslims or Hindus, but many more are leaving it to become irreligious or unaffiliated-but-spiritual. > [@Stekan](#): > > That is remarkable, thank you! Very fascinating! Does a religious belief still count as a religious belief if it isn’t considered by the believer to “occupy an important place” in his or her life!? Tricky stuff, this! It counts, but again it’s an erosion of what came before, when religion was a central part of life. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/130 "2013-12-05T22:04:23Z")
I got some way in this thread without seeing this point made. The religiosity of the USA in the last half-century or so is not historically typical. The USA has been a substantially “post-Christian,” “rationalist,” culture at various points, and indeed rebelled for its independence in such an era. It’s just that various missionaries, charlatans, and quacks have descended on it repeatedly, hence the “Great Awakenings.” If religious radicals seem particularly influential, well, they pretty much believe in breeding their way back into relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/131 "2013-12-05T22:25:15Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Surely some Europeans are leaving Christianity to become Muslims or Hindus, but many more are leaving it to become irreligious or unaffiliated-but-spiritual. I’d say “unaffiliated-but-_religious_,” but maybe that’s just me! See, to me, a belief in gods, spirits etc. is a _religious_ belief; and so, a person holding such beliefs is _religious_, regardless of whether these beliefs are orthodox or heterodox, organized or unorganized, collective or individual, etc., etc. - and, yes, _regardless of whether that person self-identifies as “religious” or not_. To be blunt: I don’t buy that there is any real, meaningful difference between being “religious” and being “spiritual.” I think that “I am spiritual but not religious” only really means “I hold _some_ kind of religious beliefs but it’s all pretty vague and kinda loose but that’s totally OK 'cuz it feels good and empowering and all that. Also it’s _totally_ not like any traditional church or anything, those guys are assholes #fuckthepope #exceptmaybethenewone #hesactuallykindacute #yolo.” ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/132 "2013-12-05T23:12:51Z")
Interesting thread. So what is happening to all the churches, cathedrals, monasteries, etc. in Europe? There must be many hundreds of such abandoned buildings…have they been converted to other purposes? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/133 "2013-12-05T23:23:23Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > The religiosity of the USA in the last half-century or so is not historically typical. The USA has been a substantially “post-Christian,” “rationalist,” culture at various points, and indeed rebelled for its independence in such an era. How big a part of the American population are we talking about here? Did the U.S. ever have a “post-Christian,” “rationalist” majority? > [@foolsguinea](#): > > It’s just that various missionaries, charlatans, and quacks have descended on it repeatedly, hence the “Great Awakenings.” OK, that’s absurd. Has the U.S. had a whole bunch of prominent non-Christians, Deists, rationalists etc. in its history, including amongst its Founding Fathers? Why yes, of course. But its Christianity runs a hell of a lot deeper than just temporary flare-ups due to the pernicious agitation of those dastardly “missionaries, charlatans and quacks.” They had millions upon millions of followers - who were all, clearly, fervently religious, and who were almost certainly fervently religious even _before_ those “missionaries, charlatans and quacks” rode into town. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/134 "2013-12-05T23:33:08Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Interesting thread. So what is happening to all the churches, cathedrals, monasteries, etc. in Europe? There must be many hundreds of such abandoned buildings…have they been converted to other purposes? Many have, yes. I don’t have the numbers, but here in Copenhagen, Denmark, it pops up in the newspapers every few months - yet another church closed, and me oh my what to do what to do? One former church in the city center has been turned into an exhibition hall. Works nicely. Another church nearby has been turned into a concert hall - and the same happened across the water, in Malmö, Sweden. Some have suggested turning former churches into mosques - as you can perhaps imagine, that raised quite the ruckus here in Denmark, where nativism and anti-Islamic prejudice runs deep. Even the left-wing Social Democrats went bananas, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Huvudtvatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Huvudtvatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huvudtvatt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/135 "2013-12-05T23:51:39Z")
This is a big problem for the Church of Sweden. Hundreds, maybe thousands of churches see little to no use and cost a fortune in maintenance. A few churches in the bigger cities have been repurposed, but for the many churches in the middle of nowhere it wouldn’t be feasible. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/136 "2013-12-05T23:58:23Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > See, to me, a belief in gods, spirits etc. is a _religious_ belief; and so, a person holding such beliefs is _religious_, regardless of whether these beliefs are orthodox or heterodox, organized or unorganized, collective or individual, etc., etc. - and, yes, _regardless of whether that person self-identifies as “religious” or not_. > > To be blunt: I don’t buy that there is any real, meaningful difference between being “religious” and being “spiritual.” To be blunt, 😉 : You can make up your own definitions if you feel like, but the word religion is primarily used to mean _organised_ belief, usually in a deity. Considering that most atheists’ only problem with religious belief is that it is organised and hence capable and desirous of affecting public life, this is not a trivial distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/137 "2013-12-06T00:05:29Z")
Can’t believe it’s not been mentioned so far (apologies if I’ve missed a post that does mention it) but has anyone considered the possibility that two world wars and numerous pogroms taking place on European land might just have had an affect on people’s attitudes towards the idea of an omni-benevolent, omniscient and omnipotent god? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/138 "2013-12-06T00:20:56Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > To be blunt, 😉 : You can make up your own **definitions** if you feel like, but the word religion **is primarily used to mean** _organised_ belief, usually in a deity. Are we going after “definitions,” or are we going after what the word “is primarily used to mean”? If we’re going after “definitions,” you’ll find that some definitions accept organized belief only, while others do not. Here’s one: > [@](#): > > the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. Here’s another: > [@](#): > > 1. > > a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. > b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. > 2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order. > 3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. > 4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. Now, if we’re going after what the word “is primarily used to mean,” then on what do you base your claim? > [@bldysabba](#): > > most atheists’ only problem with religious belief is that it is organised and hence capable and desirous of affecting public life, this is not a trivial distinction. _Most_ atheists!? How do you know what problem _most_ atheists have with religious belief? Cite, please? More importantly: For the purposes of this thread, how is the “problem” that “most atheists” may or may not have with “religious belief” relevant in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/139 "2013-12-06T00:37:37Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Can’t believe it’s not been mentioned so far (apologies if I’ve missed a post that does mention it) but has anyone considered the possibility that two world wars and numerous pogroms taking place on European land might just have had an affect on people’s attitudes towards the idea of an omni-benevolent, omniscient and omnipotent god? Nah, I’m not buying it. The European country that suffered the very _worst_ from all those world wars, pogroms and other atrocities was arguably the Soviet Union. And yet, only 13% of modern-day Russians self-identify as atheists (and that, mind you, is after more than seventy years of atheist indoctrination). That doesn’t really seem to fit with your theory. Poland, too, suffered horribly during most of the 20th century - and yet, theism there hovers around 79%, and only a measly 5% of the population doesn’t believe in any sort of “spirit, God or life force.” Conversely, Sweden stayed neutral and unharmed throughout the entire 20th century, and yet only 18% of the population believes in God. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198/140 "2013-12-06T00:56:32Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Are we going after “definitions,” or are we going after what the word “is primarily used to mean”? If we’re going after “definitions,” you’ll find that some definitions accept organized belief only, while others do not. > > Here’s one: > > Here’s another: > > Now, if we’re going after what the word “is primarily used to mean,” then on what do you base your claim? Wikipedia should do. > [@](#): > > Religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.[note 1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that are intended to explain the meaning of life and/or to explain the origin of life or the Universe. From their beliefs about the cosmos and human nature, people derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle. According to some estimates, there are roughly 4,200 religions in the world.[1] > Many religions may have organized behaviors, clergy, a definition of what constitutes adherence or membership, holy places, and scriptures. The practice of a religion may also include rituals, sermons, commemoration or veneration of a deity, gods or goddesses, sacrifices, festivals, feasts, trance, initiations, funerary services, matrimonial services, meditation, prayer, music, art, dance, public service or other aspects of human culture. Religions may also contain mythology.[2] > The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith, belief system or sometimes set of duties;[3] however, in the words of Émile Durkheim, religion differs from private belief in that it is “something eminently social”.[4] As for most atheists having a problem with the organised part of religious belief, my claim comes from following much debate on the subject. Anytime the question is asked - why do you care if you don’t believe, why can’t you let it be? The answer is invariably the same - because religious belief impinges upon public life, and thus forces us to push back. This is true of practically every debate on religion, including most on this board. If you really want to pursue this, I could cite a few instances, but it seems superfluous to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-religious-belief-eroded-in-europe-but-not-the-united-states/675198.md?page=8)