# Why has the government lost prestige since 1964? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2012, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937 "2012-05-24T11:17:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/21 "2012-05-24T15:35:11Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > That would not have been successful if government programs were improving the lives of most Americans as they did during the New Deal. Except of course…they are. The idea that the government doesn’t any good for people is _also_ right wing propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/22 "2012-05-24T15:45:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You have that backward. Look at my first post. I did not speculate on your motives for the thread and contributed a serious analysis of the situation. However, when another poster did voice suspicions regarding your motives, you used the opporetunity to post a list of _post hoc, ergo propter hoc_ “connections” between various events that involved racial issues. You are the one who appears to have confirmed other posters’, (not my), speculations regarding motives. First of all, you are right; you did not initiate negative speculations about my intentions in starting this thread. Second, negative speculations derail what deserves to be a serious discussion. It does not really matter how I feel, or who I like. What matters is whether or not my arguments are valid. Now, as my nickname indicates, I think the Democrats did most things right during the New Deal. I also think they made serious mistakes during the 1960s and 1970s. That should be obvious. The Democrats dominated the country from 1932 to 1968. Since 1980 the GOP has dominated the country. This has made it difficult for the Democrats to exploit what ought to be their strongest issue: the growing income gap. Currently the Republican Party is interfering with Obama’s efforts to fix the economy. The United States is like a sinking ship. Captain Obama is trying to save the ship. The Republicans are staging a mutiny. I do not like this. I think the discussion should be on why they are able to get away with it. Since the election of Barack Obama the percentage of Americans who identify themselves as conservatives has grown. > **[Conservatives Remain the Largest Ideological Group in U.S.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/152021/conservatives-remain-largest-ideological-group.aspx)** > > Political ideology in the U.S. held steady in 2011, with 40% of Americans continuing to describe their views as conservative, 35% as moderate, and 21% as liberal. This marks the third straight year that conservatives have outnumbered moderates,... Blaming this on right wing propaganda is liberal self indulgence. Propaganda only works when it resonates emotionally. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/23 "2012-05-24T15:47:04Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Why do you think so many Americans trusted the government to do the right thing in 1964? Naivete. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/24 "2012-05-24T15:58:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Except of course…they are. The idea that the government doesn’t any good for people is _also_ right wing propaganda. The reason people believe this “right wing propaganda” is because much of it conforms to what they know to be true. The election of 1964 can be seen as the high water mark of the Democratic Party. Lyndon Johnson won 61 percent of the vote. The Democrats won two to one majorities in both houses of Congress. Back then if you had asked a middle aged lower income white man what the Democrats had done for him he would have been told you how his father got a job after Roosevelt had been elected. He would tell you how Social Security takes care of his parents. He would have told you how he has benefited from increases in the minimum wage, and how unemployment compensation has helped when he was unemployed. In 1980 if you asked a middle aged lower income white man what the Democrats had done to help him, you would probably have had to listen to an angry explanation of how affirmative action kept him from getting a job with the fire department, how his children had been bused to a predominately black school where they were sometimes beaten up by blacks. He would have told you about how he had to move out of the neighborhood where his family had lived for several generations. Blacks moved in because of the Open Housing Act of 1968. He, friends, and relatives began to become the victims of black crime. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/25 "2012-05-24T16:03:17Z")
Man, that middle aged 1980’s white dude sure is a racist fuck. Glad we’re past the 80’s. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/26 "2012-05-24T16:04:53Z")
Wow, those middle aged lower income white guys sure are fickle. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/27 "2012-05-24T16:10:35Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Ah, the classic “Dem darkies, dey is bad!” gambit. > Nobody could have seen that coming. Personally, I would have guessed it had a lot to due with the practices of the Johnson and Nixon administrations. But given the OP, I guess not. It’s like asked David Icke who’s at fault for something. No matter what it is, he’s always going to blame the lizard people. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/28 "2012-05-24T16:10:43Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Ah, the classic “Dem darkies, dey is bad!” gambit. > Nobody could have seen that coming. Coming from Newdeal? Gosh, I was expecting him to blame it on all the lying going on about the war in Vietnam, the publishing of the Pentagon Papers, Nixon’s secret plan to win the war, Watergate, CREEP and the plumbers and all of that. The last thing I would have expected was for him to blame those genetically inferior darkies. Okay, I can’t keep a straight face that long; it’s exactly what I expected him to say. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/29 "2012-05-24T16:11:04Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Man, that middle aged 1980’s white dude sure is a racist fuck. > Glad we’re past the 80’s. What about his complaints would have been inaccurate? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/30 "2012-05-24T16:13:20Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Okay, I can’t keep a straight face that long; it’s exactly what I expected him to say. You Samoans are all the same. You have no faith in the essential decency of the white man’s culture. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/31 "2012-05-24T16:15:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Decades of relentless anti-government propaganda from the Right. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The only reason I did not post the Gallup survey that began to track trust in the government was because I could not find it. > > I would like a serious discussion. You are trying to derail it by derogating my intentions. > > Both of my parents worked for the Government. I grew up hearing about what a great man Franklin Roosevelt was and how unfortunate it was that Adlai Stevenson was not elected president in 1952 and 1956. > > I dislike and distrust the business community. The only alternative to big business is big government. The decline in the prestige of the government is painful to me. I believe that it is legitimate to inquire into why the government has lost prestige, and that all suggestions should merit respectful consideration. Most of the posts in this thread are simultaneously hilarious, horrifying, and ignorant. The two I’ve quoted are some of the most egregious. Liberals, even atheists, have a form of religion even though they apparently don’t realize it–they worship government. How else to explain the blind faith that government can make virtually anything and everything better? How else to explain the belief that children belong to the state, not to their families? (A belief that shows itself in the passage of helmet laws, booster seat laws, etc.) And–how else to explain the fact that not one poster in the thread–the vast majority of whom are clearly liberal–has seen fit to bring up the well-known, well-documented fact that **the government has at times deliberately harmed people and lied about it**. For starters, there’s all the nuclear testing–some of which was admittedly done in ignorance, but far from all of it. > **[Nevada Test Site | Cancer and test site](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada_Test_Site#Cancer_and_test_site)** > > Many communities east of the Nevada Test Site, including Cedar City, Enterprise, and St. George, Utah, received fallout from above-ground nuclear testing in the Yucca Flats at the site. Winds routinely carried the fallout of these tests directly through St. George and southern Utah. Marked increases in cancers such as leukemia, lymphoma, thyroid cancer, breast cancer, melanoma, bone cancer, brain tumors, and gastrointestinal tract cancers were reported from the mid-1950s through 1980. > On May 19... Then there’s the infamous Golf of Tonkin incident, which coincidentally(?) took place about the time that the level of trust in government started dropping. Then there’s the Tuskegee syphilis experiment, in which the all-wise, all-benevolent government that you people praise knowingly stood by and watched people die. > **[Tuskegee Syphilis Study](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment)** > > The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male (informally referred to as the Tuskegee Experiment or Tuskegee Syphilis Study) was a study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the United States Public Health Service (PHS) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on a group of nearly 400 African American men with syphilis as well as a control group without. The purpose of the study was to observe the effects of the disease when untreated, to the point of death and The P... In short, the decline of trust in government happened because the government showed in a clearer way than ever before its great power and desire to harm and deceive people. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/32 "2012-05-24T16:17:17Z")
If only there has been post after post pointing out just that. Luckily we needed some to come in and rant about liberals and atheists. Good job! ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/33 "2012-05-24T16:23:09Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Most of the posts in this thread are simultaneously hilarious, horrifying, and ignorant. The two I’ve quoted are some of the most egregious. > > Liberals, even atheists, have a form of religion even though they apparently don’t realize it–they worship government. How else to explain the blind faith that government can make virtually anything and everything better? How else to explain the belief that children belong to the state, not to their families? (A belief that shows itself in the passage of helmet laws, booster seat laws, etc.) > > And–how else to explain the fact that not one poster in the thread–the vast majority of whom are clearly liberal–has seen fit to bring up the well-known, well-documented fact that **the government has at times deliberately harmed people and lied about it**. > > For starters, there’s all the nuclear testing–some of which was admittedly done in ignorance, but far from all of it. > [Nevada Test Site - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada_Test_Site#Cancer_and_test_site) > > Then there’s the infamous Golf of Tonkin incident, which coincidentally(?) took place about the time that the level of trust in government started dropping. > > Then there’s the Tuskegee syphilis experiment, in which the all-wise, all-benevolent government that you people praise knowingly stood by and watched people die. > [Tuskegee Syphilis Study - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment) > > In short, the decline of trust in government happened because the government showed in a clearer way than ever before its great power and desire to harm and deceive people. During the New Deal and for several decades afterward the government advanced policies that improved the lives of most Americans. Even indirectly, Democratic policies benefited most Americans. From the administrations of Lyndon Johnson to that of George W. Bush there was more job creation per year under Democratic presidents than under Republican presidents. There was also more job creation under Harry Truman than under Dwight Eisenhower. [http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/](http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/) ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/34 "2012-05-24T16:25:14Z")
Not to mention the numerous coups and COINTELPRO. It’s not that the federal government ever wasn’t expansionist (Manifest Destiny), it’s just harder to ignore people’s reactions to it. > [@Flyer](#): > > How else to explain the belief that children belong to the state, not to their families? If I were to equivocate (which I won’t), I’d point out that blind adherence to property rights (as evinced even in metaphor) is as much a religion as unwavering support for the government. That’d be a tu quoque fallacy though, so I’ll avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/35 "2012-05-24T16:35:32Z")
The best way to change perception is to change reality. The US government had won the Second World War and succesfully imported Democracy to Japan and Germany. The Marshall Plan had rebuilt Europe. The Great Depression had been overcome and the United States’s economy was the envy of the entire world. Thus perception of the government was that it could accomplish important things. Then we had the Vietnam War which was an expensive and embarrassing failure. The War on Poverty which was an expensive failure. Watergate and the tapes revealed how craven people in power were. Inflation and stagflation revealed that the government did not know how to run the economy. Iranians took our embassy staff hostage and we did nothing about it. The USSR invaded Afghanistan and we refused to go to an Olympics. Communists were winning civil wars all around the world. At the end of the 1970s government had proved itself inept, incompetent and out of touch. So therefore people held in low esteem. Or the right wingers invented a mind control device that caused people to ignore reality and start distrusting government. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/36 "2012-05-24T16:36:29Z")
Vietnam - we can’t win wars anymore Watergate - the government is corrupt Stagflation - the government can’t do shit to fix the economy Iran - little nations can take our people with impunity These then give rise to Ronald “The government is the problem” Reagan ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/37 "2012-05-24T16:42:12Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Tens of millions of Americans do not agree with FOX News and right wing talk radio because they watch and listen every day. They watch and listen every day because they agree. That’s my point, and a contributing factor to the anti-government movement. News is entertainment packaged to sell advertizing dollars. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/38 "2012-05-24T17:00:34Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > That’s my point, and a contributing factor to the anti-government movement. News is entertainment packaged to sell advertizing dollars. I dislike FOX News and Rush Limbaugh. Nevertheless, they would not have the vast followings they do unless they spoke to the reality perceptions of millions of white Americans. If the government had continued to be as receptive to the needs and desires of the white majority as it had been during the 1930s Ronald Reagan would have died in obscurity as a forgotten grade B movie actor, and Rush Limbaugh and FOX News would never have received their followings. For too long liberal Democrats dismissed legitimate white concerns about crime, busing, and affirmative action as white racism. This dismissal helped to create the Republican ascend ency. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/39 "2012-05-24T17:11:23Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I dislike FOX News and Rush Limbaugh. Nevertheless, they would not have the vast followings they do unless they spoke to the reality perceptions of millions of white Americans. > > If the government had continued to be as receptive to the needs and desires of the white majority as it had been during the 1930s Ronald Reagan would have died in obscurity as a forgotten grade B movie actor, and Rush Limbaugh and FOX News would never have received their followings. > > For too long liberal Democrats dismissed legitimate white concerns about crime, busing, and affirmative action as white racism. This dismissal helped to create the Republican ascend ency. If the government had continued to be as receptive to the needs and desires of the white majority as it had been during the 1930s then the US would be a backwards, racist, intolerable cesspool of crime and violence. I mean, even more so. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937/40 "2012-05-24T17:16:48Z")
Well, just look at the things that our, ahem, hypothetical 1980’s racist wanted: segregated schools, legally discriminating against blacks for housing and no program to redress systemic employment discrimination. I guess we could’ve instituted apartheid to make such, er, hypothetical-1980’s-racists happy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-government-lost-prestige-since-1964/622937.md?page=3)