# Why has the U.S. Army ruined the beret? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 18, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764 "2011-02-18T01:47:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/21 "2011-02-18T13:53:40Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > They have a very tight looking beret precisely to distinguish them from the poofy artist-beret. Take a look at **Bump** ’s last two links. Both of them are adequately neat and uniform-like without being ridiculously tight. > [@devilsknew](#): > > Yes… they are attractors in a camo situation… they stick out like a sore thumb in enemy territory. I didn’t think it was meant to be combat wear, just for walking around. Doesn’t the army have dozens of different kinds of uniforms and headgear for actual operations? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/22 "2011-02-18T14:19:18Z")
Can these berets be found in a second hand store? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/23 "2011-02-18T14:25:10Z")
Back when I was a kid you could get a lot of stuff at Army-Navy Surplus stores. I don’t know whether they still exist. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/24 "2011-02-18T14:39:20Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Back when I was a kid you could get a lot of stuff at Army-Navy Surplus stores. I don’t know whether they still exist. Whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/25 "2011-02-18T14:42:11Z")
I still don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/26 "2011-02-18T14:43:11Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I still don’t get it. **Prince:** _Raspberry beret, the kind you find in a second hand store, Raspberry beret, if it was warm, she wouldn’t wear much more…_ ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/27 "2011-02-18T15:15:50Z")
Personally I like them better than the old doughboy style caps which made their wearers look like fast food workers. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/28 "2011-02-18T15:19:08Z")
Ferris Bueller attempted a revival. [http://frothygirlz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/ferris.jpg](http://frothygirlz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/ferris.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/29 "2011-02-18T15:44:06Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > I always think the traditional beret with that little stem in the middle makes the wearer’s head look like an acorn. 😃 In Spain we refer to people who wear one of those in the fashion you describe (not in the way pictured in the photograph) as the “screwed-on look”, because in order to achieve it you need to turn the beret around on your head while pulling down on its band; it’s generally viewed as a sign of being “shorter than a beret’s stem” (ie. dumber than a ['stache of Rons](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=495672)). I remember a video of some German-singing dude, waaaay back when videos were a new thing, wearing a beret like that… _shudder_ how anybody could think a screwed-on beret looks good is just beyond me! Those white ones from the French Army are a bit overlarge, but nowhere near what you can see given as “championship hats” for sports around Euskal Herria (lit. “the Basque Country”, it includes Euskadi, about half of Navarre and an area in SW France). Check out [this one](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_0c5v3QO_0CI/SvQaBx_2GDI/AAAAAAAAA90/uvW70agY7UY/s400/chema+txapela.jpg), and it’s nowhere near the biggest I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/30 "2011-02-18T16:09:03Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Has the U.S. Army really abused it worse it than the [French Army?](http://images.francetop.net/uploads/pics/chasseurs%20alpins_65312.jpg) 😕 Chefs with rifles?! In sailor suits?! Imitating the Pillsbury Dough-Boy?! ---
**Author:** ![JerseyMarine2092](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyMarine2092](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyMarine2092)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/31 "2011-02-18T16:50:40Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > It’s actually wonderful camouflage, though. From a modest distance, it makes the wearer look like they’re in the Air Force. Hey, don’t begrudge the Air Force. They take their corporate image seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/32 "2011-02-18T17:03:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Chefs with rifles?! In sailor suits?! Imitating the Pillsbury Dough-Boy?! Chasseurs Alpins. Alpine Troops, they have a white uniform (among others) since they predominantly operate in snowy mountains. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/33 "2011-02-18T17:16:04Z")
Three dubious points: As an old, old soldier my preference is for starch, bright brass and polished leather. The current duty uniform, beret included, meets none of those fashion preferences. The John Wayne blue uniform is fine as an evening dress uniform but you have to wonder what has happened to the waist length mess dress blouse. As a duty uniform Blues stinks – no accessable pockets, high water waist on the trousers. As an extra, in the bad old days when Southeast Asia was going to hell and the Russian were expected to come storming through the Fulda Gap at any moment, I was stationed just down the road from a battalion of the Fifth Cuirassier, a French armored infantry out fit. They wore the beret and were one tough and well disciplined bunch of mothers. While mocking all things France has been a favored American past time (a taste we acquired from the British who just hate and fear all foreigners) it is a practice I will not follow. No one who has been to Verdun can think differently. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/34 "2011-02-18T17:23:53Z")
> [@Spavined\_Gelding](#): > > As an extra, in the bad old days when Southeast Asia was going to hell and the Russian were expected to come storming through the Fulda Gap at any moment, I was stationed just down the road from a battalion of the Fifth Cuirassier, a French armored infantry out fit. They wore the beret and were one tough and well disciplined bunch of mothers. While mocking all things France has been a favored American past time (a taste we acquired from the British who just hate and fear all foreigners) it is a practice I will not follow. No one who has been to Verdun can think differently. Just out of curiosity, I don’t suppose the French 5th Cuirassiers wore actual cuirasses? ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/35 "2011-02-18T17:28:04Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > Just out of curiosity, I don’t suppose the French 5th Cuirassiers wore actual cuirasses? The same way the First Cavalry Division actually ride horses. They do, however, have those God-awful black hats. Another military fashion aboration. ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/36 "2011-02-18T17:47:16Z")
> [@Spavined\_Gelding](#): > > While mocking all things France has been a favored American past time (a taste we acquired from the British who just hate and fear all foreigners) it is a practice I will not follow. No, you’re better than that, as your comment in brackets shows. A true citizen of the world, a person of culture and universal tolerance. Just not of the British. You’ll hear no ill of the French, having just discovered Verdun, but the British (who incidentally were pretty much everywhere BUT Verdun, fighting on foreign soil with our allies… which we didn’t have because we hate and fear all foreigners) will ever be fair game. And it’s pastime, not past time. But I’m probably only correcting you because I hate and fear you as a foreigner. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/37 "2011-02-18T17:56:16Z")
What’s weird, is when the beret completely hangs down over one eye, like (for you old bastards) Veronica Lake. I can just hear a DI: “cover up that eye soldier!!”. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/38 "2011-02-18T18:02:06Z")
> [@Teacake](#): > > No, you’re better than that, as your comment in brackets shows. A true citizen of the world, a person of culture and universal tolerance. Just not of the British. You’ll hear no ill of the French, having just discovered Verdun, but the British (who incidentally were pretty much everywhere BUT Verdun, fighting on foreign soil with our allies… which we didn’t have because we hate and fear all foreigners) will ever be fair game. > > And it’s pastime, not past time. But I’m probably only correcting you because I hate and fear you as a foreigner. I guess he was just reacting to posts 4 and 12 with the usual mixture of fagotry and cowardice that is expected to be the make-up of any French. But that didnt seem to spark any indignation in you, did it? ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/39 "2011-02-18T18:04:20Z")
I think it’s really dumb looking and I cringe every time I see our soldiers wearing them. A baseball cap is at least functional. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/40 "2011-02-18T18:50:19Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > Just out of curiosity, I don’t suppose the French 5th Cuirassiers wore actual cuirasses? The buttons on the collar of business shirts are the last vestige of that: its ancestor was where the [gorget](http://www.cowanauctions.com/itemImages/taa7186.jpg) was attached; itself the last bit of armor to be worn as military fashion. Why does the US Army have to wear hats from other cultures? The beret entered the French Army via the native dress of the [farmers who took potshots at the Prussians in 1870](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francs-tireurs). The “policeman” barracks cover was invented by the (gasp!) Russians, and the flat caps by the French in WWI because they could be stuffed into a pocket easier than a kepi when switching to a helmet. I know feathered war bonnets would be a bit much, but Native Americans did have some simple fur hats for winter and head scarves for summer that could be adapted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764.md?page=3)