# Why has the U.S. Army ruined the beret? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 18, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764 "2011-02-18T01:47:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/81 "2011-02-21T00:12:31Z")
I like the Civil War style stetsons-cool! ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/82 "2011-02-21T01:21:12Z")
I’m still trying to decide if the [Uniformed Secret Service](http://www.memoryhole.net/album/misc/2004/DC/Museums/AmericanHistory/index-Pages/Image20.html) [uniforms](http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GmbSxHr2wik5Anbg7HEsQA) under Nixon were better or worse than what we’ve seen here so far. The shakos ain’t helping anything, I’ll tell you that much. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/83 "2011-02-21T04:18:05Z")
Now here’s a [sharp-looking guy in a snazzy beret](http://www.nouilles.info/sdpix/36350.html) 😃 > [@control-z](#): > > I think it’s really dumb looking and I cringe every time I see our soldiers wearing them. A baseball cap is at least functional. That depends. I’m amongst those chefs who don’t like being made to wear a baseball cap while cooking. Most complaints are about “tradition”, but my complaint is more practical: Brims/bills are good for blocking heat and light coming from _above_. Cooks deal with heat (and smoke) coming from _below_, and a brim just traps that heat and smoke around your face. I wear a bandana when I work. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/84 "2011-02-21T10:55:07Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > BTW, been living in France for decades, still have to see one of my fellow countrymen wearing a beret. It’s mostly a SW France thing. > [@clairobscur](#): > > In fact, it’s mostly a thing of the past. They’re still seen in the Spanish side of that area; they’d almost become lost but are now making a comeback among young men. They’re a lot lighter than most winter hats and caps, do not blow away as easily as most summer ones, and they’re great insulation in both summer and winter without being ticklish. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/85 "2011-02-21T18:25:05Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > I think it was raspberry beret, if it was worn, she wouldn’t wear it much more. Yeah, but which version paints a better picture? ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/86 "2011-02-22T07:13:26Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Personally I like them better than the old doughboy style caps which made their wearers look like fast food workers. No, the modern Kepi inspired fAast food workers hats. You have it a bit twisted. Symbols are usually appropriated in Chronological Order and Inspired Identity (Political, Real, or Existential). That is my only deep insight about Symbology, it can be such a strange science. The hats of our heroes… it boils down to. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/87 "2011-02-22T07:39:55Z")
It’s the Tricorne, Kepi, [Bicorne](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicorn) theory. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/88 "2011-02-22T08:17:27Z")
And who doesn’t identify with nyfd.fdny?!@911 ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/89 "2011-02-22T09:17:51Z")
I remember I could get an army, straight up desert beret, khaki, regulation, Pre-Desert Storm issue at thje A&N Surplus for a dollar. They even had a metal insert for form. Don’t know which country they came from or where they manufactured at. ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/90 "2011-02-22T20:10:50Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > It’s the Tricorne, Kepi, [Bicorne](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicorn) theory. The Tricorne, and bicorne, IMO, as a RevWar reenactor are the most useless items I’ve had to wear. Both shapes interfere with the musket being held shouldered on the left shoulder (opposite of today’s arms), though the tricorne is slightly better, and neither does a thing to shade the wearers eyes from the sun. Prior to getting my own rifleman’s hat (a round brimmed hat, with the left side turned up and pinned with a cockade), I was borrowing a bicorne, which was accurate to the time, but not my unit. My eyes hurt all day, and I was constantly fiddling with it’s placement after knocking it about with my musket barrel. The rifleman’s hat is proper to my unit (a loyalist Ranger company), though we didn’t use rifles. It’s a pain to transport, and put down somewhere, but very practical in the field, and does a great job in the rain, by keeping the water off my face. Alas, one of the things I’m finding as I learn more about RevWar military equipment, is that much of it was about looks, more than practicality. I imagine that modern military is no different. The beret, except for covering the head, provides no protection from sun, nor rain hitting the face/eyes as far as I can tell. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/91 "2011-02-22T21:04:59Z")
> [@butler1850](#): > > Alas, one of the things I’m finding as I learn more about RevWar military equipment, is that much of it was about looks, more than practicality. I imagine that modern military is no different. The beret, except for covering the head, provides no protection from sun, nor rain hitting the face/eyes as far as I can tell. Actually, today’s military is pretty serious about functionality for field dress; you’re unlikely to find soldiers or marines in the field wearing something as useless as a beret. They’ll probably have a helmet of some kind or a boonie hat, both of which are practical. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/92 "2011-02-22T21:16:41Z")
I wore a red beret back when I was a Boy Scout. > **[United States boy scout uniform garments: headwear berets](https://histclo.com/youth/youth/org/sco/gar/hat/beret/scouniberetus.htm)** > > The red beret was one of the various types of headwear worn by American Boy Scouts. The traditional Boy Scout hat was the lemon-squeezer hat designed by Lord Baden Powell. (Americans now call it the Smokey Bear hat.) British, American. and other... ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/93 "2011-02-22T22:25:26Z")
Berets are fairly silly looking to begin with. The US Army increases that by trying to make it skull tight all around, but still display the flash on front straight up. That is what leads to the pucker. If it was allowed to be softer on the left and smoothly flow into the flash on front, it would look better. But it would still be a beret. > [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > The buttons on the collar of business shirts are the last vestige of that: its ancestor was where the [gorget](http://www.cowanauctions.com/itemImages/taa7186.jpg) was attached; itself the last bit of armor to be worn as military fashion. Got a cite that the buttons on shirt collars come from there? Because I’m skeptical. The buttons anchor the collar and enclose the tie. > [@Alessan](#): > > … you’re supposed to look “soldierly”, but not like some sort of “chocolate soldier”. Tuck in your shirt, blouse your pants, … “Chocolate soldier”? "“Blouse” your pants? > [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Personally, I think the US Army should have stayed with the ever popular forage cap, from the late 1850’s and worn throughout the US Civil War. > > These hats disappeared for some reason, but I can’t find a reason why. Apparently, they were cheap to make, popular to wear, and didn’t look anything like a beret. If anyone knows why the US Army phased out the forge cap, please post a link. Because they look dumb, with that flat disk on top. > [@devilsknew](#): > > I think it was raspberry beret, if it was worn, she wouldn’t wear it much more. Um, no. The line is about how she would wear the beret, and if the weather was warm, she’d be showing off as much of her body as she could legally expose. As opposed to if it was cold, when she would wear clothes to keep warm. It’s a statement about how sexy she was and how she flaunted it. It makes no sense as a comment about the upkeep of her beret, as if she only wore it on the days it was in good shape or something. (How does the beret go from being in bad shape on one day - worn out - and then in good shape the next? Or are you proposing she would stop wearing the worn out one, and go buy a new one from a second-hand store?) ---
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/94 "2011-02-23T00:30:50Z")
Why can’t the U.S military go with something like the German WW2 uniforms? I’m not sure it would fly, but they looked good : [http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4653948020\_8bf13a8444.jpg](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4653948020_8bf13a8444.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/95 "2011-02-23T01:14:09Z")
> [@Quintas](#): > > Why can’t the U.S military go with something like the German WW2 uniforms? I’m not sure it would fly, but they looked good : > > [http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4653948020\_8bf13a8444.jpg](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4653948020_8bf13a8444.jpg) Actually, it would fly. See the designs for a prospective new Air Force [**uniform**](http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:New-air-force-uniform-blues-female.jpg). Nazi uniforms are sharp because they were designer made. Hugo Boss had a hand in a few of them. Can the military bring back jackboots? Has it been long enough? Michael Jordan has a Hitler stache. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/96 "2011-02-23T02:09:30Z")
John Wayne wears a proper beret in the move _[The Green Berets](http://sanseverything.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/johnwayne.jpg)_. It doesn’t hug his head – just touches it at one point on the crown. Much, much better looking. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/97 "2011-02-23T02:39:54Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > “Chocolate soldier”? "“Blouse” your pants? “don’t look like a chocolate soldier” = don’t make such a point of looking martial that you look affected instead. “blouse your pants” = when wearing boots, make sure your pants hem doesn’t just hang down loose so you could step on it and stumble or rip it, but gather it neatly at ankle height or above. [See here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Army_Combat_Uniform.jpg) (Of course, needless to say, when it comes to uniforms [this is](http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01472/millitary-uniform_1472713i.jpg) [just wrong](http://media.monstersandcritics.com/galleries/1887291/0184443355085.jpg). And he was among the ones who could best work the style!) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/98 "2011-02-23T04:01:35Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > “don’t look like a chocolate soldier” = don’t make such a point of looking martial that you look affected instead. That’s exactly what the Tillman photo looks like to me. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/99 "2011-02-23T04:08:05Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Actually, it would fly. See the designs for a prospective new Air Force [**uniform**](http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:New-air-force-uniform-blues-female.jpg). I think that uniform looks _extremely_ good. It looks like a police uniform, and police uniforms by and large look good. I don’t think it looks Nazi-like, but I do think it’s very sharp and squared-away. I hope they go with it. A similar uniform, but dark green instead of blue, would look good for the Army. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764/100 "2011-02-23T06:32:06Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > “don’t look like a chocolate soldier” = don’t make such a point of looking martial that you look affected instead. According to Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > A derogatory term for a soldier who would not fight but would look good in a uniform, shortened from “Chocolate Cream Soldier”, a term featured in Richard Harding Davis’ 1897 book Soldier of Fortune > [@JRDelirious](#): > > “blouse your pants” = when wearing boots, make sure your pants hem doesn’t just hang down loose so you could step on it and stumble or rip it, but gather it neatly at ankle height or above. [See here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Army_Combat_Uniform.jpg) [Blousing.](http://www.panthers505.com/class_a.htm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-the-u-s-army-ruined-the-beret/571764.md?page=6)