# Why has this guy been sentenced to jail? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 2, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332 "2009-10-02T12:30:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mojo\_Pin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mojo\_Pin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_Pin)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/41 "2009-10-02T19:56:32Z")
This I think is insane. This could have been any one of the self righteous _cough_s in this thread; to say that he _deliberately_ killed someone is true only in the sense that a conscious action of his unfortunately led to an unintended death. I think this sentence is a sad waste of life. Let him make his amends with the family, hell make him give all of his professional earnings in 32 mo to them. But just putting him away? What good is that? No amount of vindictive jailing is going to eliminate human error. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/42 "2009-10-02T20:10:18Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > No. It was just a coincidence. He could have been scratching his nose or adjusting his trousers or scanning the sideview mirror. But no, in this case, he was looking at his iPod and people jump to the conclusion that he was grossly reckless. No, I think people look at the fact there is a man dead because of this guy looking at his iPod and so reach the reasonable conclusion that he was grossly reckless. If the accident had resulted in a slight ding to the read bumper, I’d reach the conclusion that he was somewhat reckless. If no accident had occurred, well, we wouldn’t even know about it and so we wouldn’t even reach the conclusion that he was “kinda” reckless. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/43 "2009-10-02T20:16:39Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Do people not understand that there is an irreducible risk associated with driving? There are unavoidable accidents. That’s why the state mandates drivers carry liability insurance. This guy is going to prison for nearly three years _because of an unfortunate coincidence._ Fiddling with an ipod is in the “reducible” part of the risk of driving. So is texting, eating, applying makeup, etc. This was not an unavoidable accident, it should have been avoided, and he didn’t avoid it, that’s why he’s in jail. For failing to do his part to keep the roads as safe as reasonably possible. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/44 "2009-10-02T20:30:20Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > The finding of “death by dangerous driving” is beyond question – there’s a good discussion of the guidelines [here](http://www.brake.org.uk/facts/death-by-dangerous-driving-guidelines), and avoidable distraction is listed as a “highly culpable standard of driving.” The maximum sentence is 14 years, and 32 months appears to be only slightly longer than average. > > The UK is not like the US. No place on Earth is like the US. Social responsibility is taken much more seriously than individual liberty, and this pervades every institution, including the legal system. Specifically with respect to driving laws, for example, the driving age is a year older, the driving tests are more difficult, and penalties for recklessness, as you can see, are more harsh. > > Also, he’s a bit famous, and they may have wanted to make an example. Fucking around with your entertainment devices, handheld or dash-mounted, is bad driving. Period. This is very true, European countries are often portrayed here in the States as having much “softer” punishments for crimes. Very often that is the case, but almost without exception every European legal system in which I’ve ever been told the penalties for automobile related offenses the European system has much harsher penalties. I was at a dinner once with several people from around the world (it was a RL meet up of people that play a very obscure and little known Swedish-made strategy game) and we discussed Bill Murray’s arrest for DUI in Sweden; I was surprised to find out that it wasn’t uncommon for people in some European states to lose their driver’s licenses permanently for DUI. In many U.S. states until very very recently a first offense DUI often resulted in only an extremely brief license revocation/suspension or in some cases one that still allowed you to drive for work and other purposes. I believe in Wisconsin a first offense DUI is treated as a traffic violation and not a criminal offense. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/45 "2009-10-02T20:35:28Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Sure, all of us have taken our eyes off the road for a second. But very few of us have done so when there was another vehicle close enough for us to have a collision during that time frame. Especially at the kind of speed where you could kill someone. If I’m running down a straight stretch with no traffic around me I’ll adjust the Ipod or put in a different CD or even root around in my purse with one hand. But I _don’t_ do those things when I’m behind someone, or when there is oncoming traffic, or when I’m passing someone or driving in traffic. Because it’s dangerous and stupid. This, I think, is the key. We are told that this happened “on the southbound carriageway of the M1 near Lutterworth in Leicestershire at about 2.50pm on Christmas Day.” I have no idea how fast or heavy the traffic was at that particular time and place, or how fast he himself was going at the time. But, unless the other driver was doing something strange and stupid, the fact that “he had been trying to change songs on his iPod in the black Mercedes CLC 180 sport car when he **ploughed into** the father-of-five” indicates to me that, under the conditions that prevailed at the time, what he was doing what negligently dangerous. I’ve taken my eyes off the road long enough to fiddle with an mp3 player or do other things, but not when I’m within “ploughing” range of any other vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/46 "2009-10-02T20:44:56Z")
Jail time seems right to me. It’s as if he had killed someone while drunk, or texting, or otherwise impaired. He didn’t _mean_ to cause it, so in that sense it was an “accident.” But he was driving recklessly, taking an unecessary risk that resulted in the death of an innocent person because of the driver’s own negligence. Lock him up. ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/47 "2009-10-02T21:08:29Z")
The article says the father was killed but no one else was injured. Were there others in his car? Was he wearing a seat belt? Are there seat belt laws or regulations in the country where the accident took place? How far did the soccer player have to drift or whatever to hit the other car? Did he drive into oncoming traffic? T-bone the father? Hit him from behind? Does anyone have any more specific info on this? If it was something like he was fiddling with something then ended up in oncoming traffic and killed the dude, then yeah he fucked up a lot, go to jail. But personally I’d need more info before I can form an opinion on whether to fuck up a second life or not. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/48 "2009-10-02T21:08:59Z")
I feel like I could use some more info. Did he glance down at the iPod and click “next”? Because if so, how could that cause an accident unless he was already following too closely or something? Or, on the other hand, was he looking down for several seconds, trying to find a particular song in a list? The two things seems quite different. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/49 "2009-10-02T21:38:28Z")
> [@Mojo\_Pin](#): > > But just putting him away? What good is that? No amount of vindictive jailing is going to eliminate human error. There’s a compelling state interest in making an example of him, with the goal of discouraging others from similar actions. Of course, if I was the judge, I’d offer him a choice of 32 months or 32 lashes in a public square, televised so the entire nation can hear him weeping and begging. Play the tape in the schools to clearly demonstrate the state is not fucking around. Barbaric? Sure, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/50 "2009-10-02T21:51:12Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > OTOH, he ended a man’s life, leaving 5 children fatherless and a woman without her sworn life-partner. She now has sole responsibility for raising those 5 kids, a task that will not end for years and years… He should of course be obligated to pay child support untill all 5 children are 18 and done with school. I don’t know about England, but I’m pretty sure in the States a judge can order resitution as part of a criminal sentence without the family having to go through civil court. ---
**Author:** ![Never\_Say\_Dice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee59a6/32.png) [@Never\_Say\_Dice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Say_Dice)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/51 "2009-10-02T22:01:59Z")
Usually, they omit the part of being half tanked, on pills, or with an open bottle in the car, speeding, weaving in and out of traffic, because the cops are willing to settle for one admission. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/52 "2009-10-03T00:23:42Z")
If you want to take away his driving privileges that would seem reasonable. Perhaps until he completes a class on safe operations of a car. Putting him in jail does not make any sense, other then perhaps a way of the family of the victim to feel some sense of vengeance, which in the long run will not help them. This person could easily be any of us, we all are intentionally distracted at times, and that goes for every activity including driving, as we are human. It doesn’t have to be a mp3 player, perhaps re-reading directions or something catches your eye and you look a bit longer then you should. I do not want to be held to such a legalistic standard and I will not hold anyone else to it. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/53 "2009-10-03T00:33:07Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > This person could easily be any of us, we all are intentionally distracted at times, and that goes for every activity including driving, as we are human. And this is exactly why he needs to be in jail. A punitive sentence is necessary for deterrence. Ideally, people will say, “Oh, crap, that could be me! I don’t want to kill someone and face 3 years in jail just because I futzed with my iPod in the car! I’d better be careful.” ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/54 "2009-10-03T00:49:27Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > He should of course be obligated to pay child support untill all 5 children are 18 and done with school. I don’t know about England, but I’m pretty sure in the States a judge can order resitution as part of a criminal sentence without the family having to go through civil court. What if he would have killed a dude with no family? ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/55 "2009-10-03T01:07:58Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Do people not understand that there is an irreducible risk associated with driving? There are unavoidable accidents. That’s why the state mandates drivers carry liability insurance. This guy is going to prison for nearly three years _because of an unfortunate coincidence._ dude, there are no unavoidable car v car accidents, even calling them accidents is bullshit. unavoidable means a meteor fell out of the sky and hit your car. changing lanes without properly checking your blind spot and hitting someone is not an accident. crashing because the brakes failed in a poorly maintained vehicle is not an accident. rear ending someone because you werent looking where you were going and were following to close is not an accident, in fact virtually any condition you can think of where people crash while driving their cars involves human error. including things like driving at speed when its below freezing outside…black ice isnt a surprise under those conditions its to be expected. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/56 "2009-10-03T01:43:23Z")
It’s interesting. In 1987 actor [Matthew Broderick](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Broderick) killed a mother and daughter when he veered across into their lane and hit them head-on in Ireland. He too was charged with “causing death by dangerous driving” but ultimately was convicted of a lesser charge and only had to pay a small fine. He said he had no recollection of the incident whatsoever. I suppose if this fellow had said the same thing, instead of giving an actual reason for his distraction, he too may have gotten off with a slap on the wrist. ---
**Author:** ![fruitbat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fruitbat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fruitbat)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/57 "2009-10-03T02:21:38Z")
The judgemental priggery in this thread is really going into high gear. He was doing something that every one of us has done at some point or another in our driving career. Many people distract themselves regularly, or I would be imaging every driver I see looking in the backseat, putting on lipstick, reading, talking on their cell phones and texting. The difference is that this guy ended up killing someone. So if this guy’s behavior led to a death, should we be pulling over the texters and cell phone yakkers and charging them with attempted murder or some other serious crime? Putting him in prison and throwing away the key doesn’t accomplish anything. First, I want the prisons filled with people who are a future threat to my and my family’s well being. For the same reason I oppose the drug war, I oppose sentences like this. The more of these people you shove in prison the earlier the rapists, thugs and murderers get out. I doubt he is scheming in prison so he can get in a car and start fiddling with his MP3 again. He should get thirty days in jail and a stiff fine and the family of the victim undoubtedly would pursue civil actions agains the driver. That would be just and would be more than enough detterent to keep his attention on the road. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/58 "2009-10-03T03:51:36Z")
> [@fruitbat](#): > > The judgemental priggery in this thread is really going into high gear. He was doing something that every one of us has done at some point or another in our driving career. The judgmental backlash against the “judgemental priggery” is also going into high gear. You don’t know what he was doing. Maybe he was driving at a reasonable speed, glanced at his mp3 player for a second, and the father jumped in front of his car. Or maybe he was driving too fast, spent a long time looking through his library of music trying to decide which song to listen to, and rammed into and killed a man. It is certainly possible that he was mainly guilty of bad luck, but it is also very possible that he went above and beyond the “normal” level of bad driving. The fact that he did kill someone (rather than just injuring them) tends to suggest the latter, but we don’t have enough information to really decide. ---
**Author:** ![bri1600bv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@bri1600bv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bri1600bv)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/59 "2009-10-03T04:04:07Z")
Well, you’re responsible for maintaining control of your car. I take my eyes off the road all the time for only a split second…but not enough to risk plowing into someone, never been close to an accident. This guy didn’t…I know it’s an accident and it wasn’t done on purpose, that’s why it was probably “manslaughter” or something. It’s not like they put him in jail for life. ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332/60 "2009-10-03T08:44:40Z")
In the UK there exists several laws ranging from ‘driving without due care and attention’ right up to ‘death by dangerous driving’ I believe new legislation has been drafted ( may even be law now) to cover ‘death by careless or inconsiderate driving’ I believe the max punishment is an unlimited fine and upto five years Why this guy was charged with causing death by dangerous driving ( which covers extremely serious things such as road racing and driving the wrong way round a roundabout) I couldn’t say. Perhaps a Brit Solicitor doper may have a better definition of the relevant UK laws. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-this-guy-been-sentenced-to-jail/512332.md?page=4)