# Why has Walmart not failed due to opposition? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 20, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305 "2005-04-20T20:33:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/41 "2005-04-22T20:16:40Z")
You think there’s a number out there? If Walmart can drive down the price of goods d/t its sheer sizie and clout–is that always beneficial to the entire market/economy? that is my point–I don’t think it is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/42 "2005-04-22T20:20:49Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > You think there’s a number out there? > > If Walmart can drive down the price of goods d/t its sheer sizie and clout–is that always beneficial to the entire market/economy? > > that is my point–I don’t think it is. You seem to think there is a number out there, since you say Walmart is wrong. What is the correct number? If you don’t know what it is, then you have no way of knowing if Walmart is “wrong” or not. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/43 "2005-04-22T20:22:23Z")
Rather than getting bogged down in specific numbers, just outline the correct methodology for determining supplier prices, and tell us how that differs from Walmart’s methodology. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/44 "2005-04-22T21:29:10Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > It’s hard to fight a Walmart when they promise and deliver jobs to a community that desperately needs them. If the book \*How Wal-Mart Is Destroying America (and the World) and What You Can Do about It \* is to be believed, Wal-Mart hires the equivalent of 1 person per $150,000 in annual sales the store does, while most small stores hire about 1 person per $100,000 in sales. They hire the majority of their people part-time, so they won’t have to pay benefits, and they pay an average of a buck an hour less. This means that if Wal-Mart comes into your town and hires 100 people, there are about 150 people losing their jobs, and the 100 that get the jobs are earning less than they would have at the other stores. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/45 "2005-04-22T21:33:46Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > IThis means that if Wal-Mart comes into your town and hires 100 people, there are about 150 people losing their jobs, and the 100 that get the jobs are earning less than they would have at the other stores. Actually, what it means is that if WalMart doesn’t come to your town, 150 people are being overpaid. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/46 "2005-04-22T22:08:24Z")
I just want to know who these retailers who pay more that WalMart are. See, John, I think some of our agreeing is that, while I am officially a Democrat, I was a liberal Republican back when that wasn’t an oxymoron and am still a good social capitalist. And since the Walmarts by me lack most of the negative features people have mentioned here I can’t see what people are complaining about. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/47 "2005-04-23T00:33:57Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Well, I loathe Walmart. > > I dislike their treatment of employees, the dirtiness of their stores, the crap merchandise that is falling off shelves, the lack of help when needed, the only one lane open to purchase things, the mind controlled “greeter” at the front door. > > Maybe it’s changed–I haven’t gone in one in 2 years. I thank god I live in a suburban area, where I have plenty of retail choices. > > I don’t know why it is still around–apparently I am in the minority in not liking it. > > I would rather pay a bit more for a product and know that I am helping to keep local business afloat, than to help the Walton family. > > Walmart can call the shots because of its sheer size–but that doesn’t make its gouging of suppliers “right” or even good for the long haul, in terms of our economy. Does “I would rather” mean that you do? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/48 "2005-04-23T00:45:28Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Well, I loathe Walmart. Careful, your drool is making the floor slippery. > [@](#): > > I dislike their treatment of employees, the dirtiness of their stores, the crap merchandise that is falling off shelves, the lack of help when needed, the only one lane open to purchase things, the mind controlled “greeter” at the front door. You may be living in the past or in a different world than I do. At my local Wal-Mart, it is the cleanest store in town, employees were hired when they applied for the jobs; they were not drafted; the merchandise is not falling off the shelves; there is ample help whenever needed; six checkout lanes are usually open; and I haven’t seen a “greeter” for years. Could your observation apply to a poorly-managed store, not the whole chain? > [@](#): > > Maybe it’s changed–I haven’t gone in one in 2 years. I thank god I live in a suburban area, where I have plenty of retail choices. Lucky you. I don’t, and Wal-Mart is a godsend. Obviously we pray to different gods. > [@](#): > > I would rather pay a bit more for a product and know that I am helping to keep local business afloat, than to help the Walton family. My, you are behind the times. Sam Walton died years ago and you can buy the stock on the stock market now. > [@](#): > > Walmart can call the shots because of its sheer size–but that doesn’t make its gouging of suppliers “right” or even good for the long haul, in terms of our economy. But it’s OK if local businesses gouge customers? ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/49 "2005-04-23T04:10:06Z")
Lets keep this moderately on track, it’s rather obvious that there are quite a few people on the SDMB that despise Walmart. What the OP is asking is why this hasn’t seemed to have any great effect on their profitability. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/50 "2005-04-23T04:20:36Z")
Because there are only a relative few people on this board most people off it think WalMart is the bee’s knees. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/51 "2005-04-23T04:27:58Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Because there are only a relative few people on this board most people off it think WalMart is the bee’s knees. They think it’s hairy and covered with pollen? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/52 "2005-04-23T04:46:57Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > They think it’s hairy and covered with pollen? To hear some of the complaints about WalMart cleanliness here, yeah, but I repeat that they regularly clean both the hair and pollen at my local WalMart. ---
**Author:** ![mrunlucky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7993a0/32.png) [@mrunlucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrunlucky)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/53 "2005-04-24T20:26:59Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Also, their prices are usually lower than most places (when compared to real mom & pop stores). In my experience, the only places that can compete are other huge corporations. Most people go where the prices are the best. This is incorrect and part of the myth of Wal-Mart. Their low prices generally only apply to a small number of items, known as “price-sensitive” merchandise. > [@](#): > > Price-sensitive merchandise is displayed in prominent places such as the kiosk at the entrance to the store, as well as on end caps, in dump bins, and in gondolas down the main aisles. Consequently, when Wal-Mart customers see the items of which they know the price, the ones always priced lower in Wal-Mart, they start assuming that everything else is also priced lower than at competing stores. This assumption is simply not true. From [MyDD](http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/3/7/17936/90375). ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/54 "2005-04-24T23:12:10Z")
Related: [Wal-Mart vs. Target Using a 20-Item Shopping List](http://www.cockeyed.com/citizen/target/walmart_versus_target01.html) ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/55 "2005-04-24T23:18:36Z")
> [@arrosen](#): > > And the residents of Inglewood have several hundred less jobs in their community AND are paying more for toilet paper (and other stuff!) Since Inglewood, California is part of the LA Metro Area, it’s not really that hard for Inglewood residents to drive to a nearby city if they want to find a Wal-Mart. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/56 "2005-04-25T01:47:31Z")
I think what people are experiencing here is a relatively free-market capitalist democracy in action. A relatively small number of people object to WalMart for some reason or another. On the other hand, a vast majority (or at least enough to keep them in business) have voted with their wallets overwhelmingly in favor of WalMart. A few guys with anti-corporate rhetoric and a couple of placards are just no match for the combined spending power of millions of consumers. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/57 "2005-04-25T04:29:24Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I think what people are experiencing here is a relatively free-market capitalist democracy in action. A relatively small number of people object to WalMart for some reason or another. On the other hand, a vast majority (or at least enough to keep them in business) have voted with their wallets overwhelmingly in favor of WalMart. A few guys with anti-corporate rhetoric and a couple of placards are just no match for the combined spending power of millions of consumers. Nor can they compete against the bribery of hundreds of city councils. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/58 "2005-04-25T04:52:41Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Nor can they compete against the bribery of hundreds of city councils. What bribery? Marc ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/59 "2005-04-25T13:34:36Z")
Yes, Sven, that really does call for proof. Otherwise it’s baseless slander. ---
**Author:** ![modernhamlet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@modernhamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/modernhamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305/60 "2005-04-25T14:00:22Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > What is the correct price that WalMart should pay its suppliers? How about a price that doesn’t require said supplier to utilize slave and/or sweatshop labor to produce most of their goods? Modern economic realities have forced lower and lower-middle class Americans to buy on price alone. Quality and ethics play no role in the Walmart equation. Walmart **is** pure, unadulterated capitalism. It is ruthlessly efficient. It will continue to be ruthlessly efficient until society decides that there are factors other than economic efficiency that are important enough to us as a people, as a nation, and as a part of humanity to stop them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-has-walmart-not-failed-due-to-opposition/300305.md?page=4)