# Why hasn't DSK's accuser been deported? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623 "2011-08-22T05:34:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/21 "2011-08-22T14:18:28Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/22 "2011-08-22T14:27:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > So your saying that guilty rapists are persecution victims? Well if they are charged with rape, obviously they’re guilty. Since they’re guilty, why the fuck should we waste any money on these scumbags for a nonsense trial that’s gonna confirm their guilt anyway(which is obvious since they were accused of that in the first place)? I say go directly from charging someone to putting him into jail for life. Anything less is hypocrisy. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Anecdotally, practically everybody knows women who have been raped, and practically none of those rapes were reported. So right, so many women are not reporting rapes that if you’re accused of rape, it’s either that: - finally some gal had the courage to put an end to your rape spree - or you’re an innocent guy, but what with the unreported rapes and all, in the grand scheme of things, it evens out injustice. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/23 "2011-08-22T14:34:53Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Well if they are charged with rape, obviously they’re guilty. If they’re actually charged then they _probably_ are guilty. It’s such a difficult crime to prosecute that most accusations don’t get that far unless the evidence is better than an accusation and the victim isn’t too easy to brand as a slut. > [@](#): > > So right, so many women are not reporting rapes that if you’re accused of rape, it’s either that: > > - finally some gal had the courage to put an end to your rape spree > - or you’re an innocent guy, but what with the unreported rapes and all, in the grand scheme of things, it evens out injustice. If the accusation is deliberately false and malicious (which hardly ever happens), then the guy is unlikely to ever be prosecuted, much less convicted. Guys having their lives ruined by false rape accusations is pretty much an imaginary phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/24 "2011-08-22T14:39:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If they’re actually charged then they _probably_ are guilty. It’s such a difficult crime to prosecute that most accusations don’t get that far unless the evidence is better than an accusation and the victim isn’t too easy to brand as a slut. > > If the accusation is deliberately false and malicious (which hardly ever happens), then the guy is unlikely to ever be prosecuted, much less convicted. Guys having their lives ruined by false rape accusations is pretty much an imaginary phenomenon. As seems to be the presumption of innocence, in your mind. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/25 "2011-08-22T14:45:07Z")
> [@OscarGold](#): > > Or at least why haven’t the proceedings to begin the process of deporting her, why hasn’t that begun? We are talking about an admitted immigration fraudster here. I particularly do not like her because she has the audacity to come to our country and use our legal system to be a rabble-rouser, a victimcrat, a professional grievance-monger. We barely tolerate our own citizens who are like that, why should we tolerate an illegal immigrant who does it? > > Her face also grosses me out. It _might_ just be because she’s the complaining witness in an ongoing criminal investigation, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/26 "2011-08-22T14:46:09Z")
There’s a difference between making a statement about statistical probabilities and making a statement about any specific case. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/27 "2011-08-22T14:47:12Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I said both of those things myself. Most rapes never get reported. Most rapists never suffer any consequences. Most burglars never suffer consequences. Most people who commit battery never suffer any consequences. Most people who commit drug crimes never suffer any consequences. Child pornographers, copyright violators, and servers who spit in your food because you tip badly will likely never have to answer for their crimes. None of those is an epidemic social problem that you’re describing rape to be. We do our best to prosecute rapists. Nobody here is less than outraged at rapists. You can not say with any confidence that false rape accusations are “mostly theoretical” though. Every study done on the matter shows that rape is more likely than other crimes to be falsely reported. Some studies say that the difference is pretty small (but still significant), while others find false accusations make up 40% of rape claims. None of this diminishes the fact that actual rapes are very pitifully under-reported. I challenge you to prove that it’s because of a lack of vigor on the part of investigators or prosecutors, though. You’re all ready to go to war because people aren’t “outraged” enough at rapists. I challenge you to back that assertion up, by answering exactly how we can improve the justice system to put more rapists in jail. In my opinion, we’re doing as good as can be expected. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/28 "2011-08-22T14:47:31Z")
> [@OscarGold](#): > > (…) use our legal system to be a rabble-rouser, a victimcrat, a professional grievance-monger. I may not be up to date on this, but it is my understanding that rape (as per rape kit test) did occur. Just so that I am clear, your cite above has a different understanding? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/29 "2011-08-22T14:53:14Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > None of this diminishes the fact that actual rapes are very pitifully under-reported. I challenge you to prove that it’s because of a lack of vigor on the part of investigators or prosecutors, though. I didn’t say it was because of a lack of vigor by prosecutors and investigators. They can’t investigate or prosecute what doesn’t get reported. Rape is under reported because most victims don’t want to go through the ordeal of having to report it, testify about it, undergo the inevitable slut shaming and accusations of lying and then still only have a small chance of success. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/30 "2011-08-22T15:16:02Z")
I don’t understand how a rape accusation can ruin one’s life. I know _convicted_ rapists and _convicted_ child molesters who live perfectly normal lives as beloved members of their community, have families and jobs and privileges as if the crime had never happened. They also have victim stories about how they weren’t really at fault or were misrepresented at trial and they are oh-so-readily believed. So much of the public outrage about rape just rings hypocritically false to me, because when push comes to shove, in most people’s personal lives they will rationalize the hell out of anything just to keep believing the person they love/like/admire isn’t capable of that kind of thing. As for false accusations, having the charges dropped in no way proves that the rape didn’t happen. It just means there wasn’t enough evidence to convict. Without calling the police I had one show up at my door asking me to file a report on sexual abuse. I was 17 years old and the crime had been reported by a social worker. I was completely caught off guard - still wearing my pajamas. The cop was not much older than me, clearly inexperienced at talking to victims and uncomfortable with the situation, it was so embarrassing, but it’s such a standard idea that the right thing to do is report, I went along with it. Even as I told him I felt like it sounded ridiculous and shameful. Suddenly, I said, ‘‘Do we have to do this?’’ He said, ‘‘Well, you don’t have to file a report.’’ So I didn’t. There was no way I could prove what happened anyway. Some would believe (and maybe the cop thought) that I decided not to report because I had been lying and realized I was in over my head. But suppose I had succumbed to the pressure and reported? Suppose the charges were later dropped because of the lack of evidence or the fact that I just didn’t want to go through with it? Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. But that wouldn’t stop everyone from believing what they wanted to. That’s the fucked up reality about the position victims are in. Nothing we do is right. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/31 "2011-08-22T15:32:15Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I think the penalty for falsely accusing someone of rape should be whatever the maximum penalty the accused rapist would have received if convicted based on this false accusation. I would also be in favor of having that individual’s full name, address, place of employment and other personal details published for the public record - _and_ that the snake in question be prohibited from changing legal names. > > People who do this are the lowest of the low…they ought to have their lives totally destroyed. This is an excellent plan if your aim is to make sure that rape is _even more underreported_ than it is now. It also will encourage the rich and powerful to sexually abuse the poor and powerless. All and all, this is part of an excellent plan to revert the United States to the sexual politics of the 1940s. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/32 "2011-08-22T15:39:24Z")
DSK? Who would this be? ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/33 "2011-08-22T15:40:15Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Most burglars never suffer consequences. Most people who commit battery never suffer any consequences. Most people who commit drug crimes never suffer any consequences. Child pornographers, copyright violators, and servers who spit in your food because you tip badly will likely never have to answer for their crimes. None of those is an epidemic social problem that you’re describing rape to be. There’s always a witness to a rape. For the crimes you listed above, there’s often no evidence, no witness, or both. For crimes like copyright violators, it’s often impossible to even know that a crime has been committed. And none of those cause the kind of mental trauma and distress that rape does. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/34 "2011-08-22T15:48:31Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > DSK? Who would this be? Dominique Strauss-Kahn, former managing director of the International Monetary Fund. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/35 "2011-08-22T15:52:08Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > I don’t understand how a rape accusation can ruin one’s life. > > As for false accusations, having the charges dropped in no way proves that the rape didn’t happen. It just means there wasn’t enough evidence to convict. . No comment. Incredible the mind shuffling in action when rape is mentioned on this board. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/36 "2011-08-22T16:36:03Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > I don’t understand how a rape accusation can ruin one’s life. I know _convicted_ rapists and _convicted_ child molesters who live perfectly normal lives as beloved members of their community, have families and jobs and privileges as if the crime had never happened. They also have victim stories about how they weren’t really at fault or were misrepresented at trial and they are oh-so-readily believed. So much of the public outrage about rape just rings hypocritically false to me, because when push comes to shove, in most people’s personal lives they will rationalize the hell out of anything just to keep believing the person they love/like/admire isn’t capable of that kind of thing. > > As for false accusations, having the charges dropped in no way proves that the rape didn’t happen. It just means there wasn’t enough evidence to convict. Without calling the police I had one show up at my door asking me to file a report on sexual abuse. I was 17 years old and the crime had been reported by a social worker. I was completely caught off guard - still wearing my pajamas. The cop was not much older than me, clearly inexperienced at talking to victims and uncomfortable with the situation, it was so embarrassing, but it’s such a standard idea that the right thing to do is report, I went along with it. Even as I told him I felt like it sounded ridiculous and shameful. Suddenly, I said, ‘‘Do we have to do this?’’ He said, ‘‘Well, you don’t have to file a report.’’ So I didn’t. There was no way I could prove what happened anyway. > > Some would believe (and maybe the cop thought) that I decided not to report because I had been lying and realized I was in over my head. But suppose I had succumbed to the pressure and reported? Suppose the charges were later dropped because of the lack of evidence or the fact that I just didn’t want to go through with it? Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. But that wouldn’t stop everyone from believing what they wanted to. That’s the fucked up reality about the position victims are in. Nothing we do is right. Kiddo. Lack of evidence dose not mean; “off on a technicality” or “he really did it and the law is an ass”. Lack of evidence it is true dose not equate to innocence, but lack of evidence is very good reason to believe he did not do it. Most rape cases which fail at the evidence stage; fail because the victim waited for a long time before reporting or are demonstrably false. In abuse cases there is despite delay often other evidence to send the bugger down. Crimes involving the human body are actually easier to prove then other crimes. If I have to prosecute a rape case or a fraud case, I’ll take the rape; ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/37 "2011-08-22T16:47:46Z")
Sure, if you can prove someone falsely accused rape beyond a _reasonable doubt_ before a jury of twelve, I’m all for the penalties being harsh. The impression I got from **Argent Towers** , and I admit it is just an _impression_ and not necessarily what he was saying, is that if DSK is acquitted or (more likely) the charges get dropped, that is equivalent to saying his accused is guilty of false accusation. It doesn’t work that way, she’s entitled to all the presumptions of innocence that DSK was, and I very seriously doubt there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that this was a false rape accusation. I also think it is **far more likely** around the country that when charges of rape result in acquittals or the charges are dismissed (or never even filed) that it’s just a matter of there not being sufficient evidence to prosecute. **Not the same thing** as a false accusation, just an accusation that cannot be meaningfully proven in court. The unfortunate nature of rape is that most genuine rapes will indeed come down to he-said-she-said and it’s very difficult to do anything with that in a legal system that requires beyond a reasonable doubt for conviction. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/38 "2011-08-22T16:58:18Z")
**AK84** - What is your experience in the criminal justice system? I have been a public defender for 6 years and have probably represented upwards of 3,000 clients in that time. My experience is that rape is very often unreported to law enforcement (both from reading people’s psychologicals, and in discussions of prior history). I am not a mandatory reporter, and in fact, cannot report when a client tells me of abuse they experienced if they do not want me to report it. So I hear about a TON of stuff that never goes to law enforcement. I also know, personally, that prosecutors do not prosecute every case where a report is made because it can be very difficult to prove, victims do not want to be “revictimized” at trial, etc… I just had a case nolle’d where there was ample evidence that a rape occured. But it wasn’t a slam dunk. I am 99% confident that a rape occured. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/39 "2011-08-22T17:00:55Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Then show some evidence it is. Show that most rape are “unreported”. Which my own experience working in criminal justice shows is not the case. This is why I asked the question above… forgot to quote. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/40 "2011-08-22T17:03:06Z")
Regarding the idea of false accusations for rape, since this is something I’ve experienced myself, I feel like I should throw a few things out there. 1. The significant majority of rape allegations are true, as of the last study I read. 2. Anecdotally, many rapists are not punished nearly severely enough for their crimes, especially if they are in a social position where it’s easy to imagine they are just boys being boys (sports stars at any level) or some such horseshit. 3. False rape accusations should be prosecuted, at most, as perjury or misuse of police resources or making false complaints. Maybe civil libel/slander. \*\*Argent’s \*\*proposed punishment is ludicrious. 4. The damage from a false rape accusation is not generally legal. Generally, when I’ve seen it done, it’s done in an extreme attempt to isolate the falsely accused person from their friends and peer group (as happened to me) and/or destroy their local social standing, not an attempt to cause serious legal consequences. 5. The fact that there is a huge backlog of rape kits, the fact that police and nurses still in 2011 make any comments to a rape victim other than “here’s the rape kit, can you describe the perpetrator”, the fact that there are people who honestly believe that rape accusations are mostly false–all these things are completely unacceptable in this day and age. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623.md?page=3)