# Why hasn't DSK's accuser been deported? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623 "2011-08-22T05:34:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/81 "2011-08-25T14:22:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Pretty sure the disposition will say “dismissed”. Not sure where you are, but in my state, prosecutors dismissing a charge typically ask the judge to “null pross” the case, meaning that they are making a motion for _nolle prosequi_, what every other state would call a dismissal without prejudice. It’s true that if you have some leverage or the dismissal is part of a plea deal, the prosecutor will move for dismissal instead, which everyone always understood was a dismissal with prejudice. The distinction between the two is that a case null prossed can always be refiled. A case dismissed with prejudice cannot. Interestingly, although this was long understood to be true when I practiced criminal law, it wasn’t until 2006 that the issue was finally settled, in a case in which the defendant, Roe (his real name, by the way!) faced a second indictment after his case was dismissed, but _not_ nul prossed, by the Commonwealth. As the Virginia Supremes explain: > [@Roe v. Comm.](#): > > A nolle prosequi and a motion to dismiss are separate and distinct procedures. Code § 19.2-265.3, which governs nolle prosequi, states: “Nolle prosequi shall be entered only in the discretion of the court, upon motion of the Commonwealth with good cause therefor shown.” Pursuant to the plain language of Code § 19.2-265.3, the Commonwealth is not entitled to a nolle prosequi unless it demonstrates the requisite good cause. A dismissal at the request of the Commonwealth does not require a showing of good cause. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/82 "2011-08-25T14:27:41Z")
> [@PBear42](#): > > I guess you think I would feel differently if I were the accused. In fact, no, I wouldn’t. I would understand that dismissal of the charges because prosecutors concluded they couldn’t prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt does not establish my innocence. Ditto as to acquittal after trial. That’s not a “sweeping statement.” It’s the law. OJ was acquitted, but this didn’t prove he was innocent. The sweeping statement you made was, “No, lack of evidence isn’t very good reason to believe he didn’t do it.” Now, not having enough evidence to reach “guilty beyond a reasonable doubt” is, I agree, not a good reason to believe you didn’t do it. But simply lack of evidence, with no qualifiers? Yes, that’s an excellent reason to believe you didn’t do it. > [@](#): > > BTW, in case you missed it, what prompted my post was **AK84’s** [response](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14168186&postcount=36) to **OM4th’s** [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14167803&postcount=30) about her rape experience. In the latter, she explains that she didn’t file a police report because she recognized she couldn’t prove the charge. **AK84** responded, in substance, if there’s no evidence then the rape didn’t happen. Balderdash. It just means the rape couldn’t be proven. The same is true of the DSK incident. As **OM4th** has said several times, we don’t know what happened and probably never will. This doesn’t mean DSK’s accuser lied. Only that she _might_ have. A concern which raises reasonable doubt There’s a huge difference between those two things. Do you really not see the difference? Yes, I do. Your sweeping statement was intended to be read in response to that post, and follow from it. In that context, you’re right on the money. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/83 "2011-08-25T14:30:15Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > WTF has that got to do with the topic? First, how do you know posters’skin color, you’ve got an app for that? Plus, judging from the even-more-common-in-the-US “white girl falsely accuses black guy of rape” trope, your point is so off target, one wonders if you havent posted in the wrong thread. Because there’s actually a history of black men being falsely accused of rape. It’s not “a trope”. For that reason it is somewhat understandable for black men to be nervous about false accusations. However, it’s hysterically absurd watching white men run around like chickens with their heads cut off squawking about how common it is for women to falsely accuse men of rape. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/84 "2011-08-25T14:41:25Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Because there’s actually a history of black men being falsely accused of rape. It’s not “a trope”. > > For that reason it is somewhat understandable for black men to be nervous about false accusations. > > However, it’s hysterically absurd watching white men run around like chickens with their heads cut off squawking about how common it is for women to falsely accuse men of rape. So your contention is that more black men have falsely accused of rape than have white men? I would be interested in seeing some evidence for this proposition. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/85 "2011-08-25T15:37:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So your contention is that more black men have falsely accused of rape than have white men? > > I would be interested in seeing some evidence for this proposition. Ditto. I’m not willing to credit the more extremist studies I’ve seen, but the last time I tried to get serious numbers about this the false accusation rate was extrapolated to be somewhere around 5-10%. Not insignificant. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/86 "2011-08-25T16:03:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So your contention is that more black men have falsely accused of rape than have white men? > > I would be interested in seeing some evidence for this proposition. I’m sorry, I thought lynchings, the KKK and what happened to the Scottsboro boys were well known historical facts. Just brush up on your American history and you’ll be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/87 "2011-08-25T16:06:17Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Ditto. I’m not willing to credit the more extremist studies I’ve seen, but the last time I tried to get serious numbers about this the false accusation rate was extrapolated to be somewhere around 5-10%. Not insignificant. I’m genuinely surprised that someone who is so passionate about false rape accusations would be unaware of the long history in the US of black men being lynched after falsely being accused of raping white women. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/88 "2011-08-25T16:27:22Z")
I’m not sure you guys are really disagreeing with each other. False rape accusations against blacks have historically been a little cog in the machine that was the systemic hatred of them by white Americans, that’s true. I think it’s inevitable that for almost any indicator of societal prejudice, your average black person will have historically had much more to worry about in terms than your average white person, and that’s true of getting railroaded for rape as much as anything else. But that doesn’t make it true that false accusations were made less often against whites overall, or that that’s true today even if it was true then; it just means it’s historically been a lot better to be white than black in the event that it happens. And, since whites are currently arrested for rape twice as often as blacks, either blacks almost never actually commit rape, compared to whites, or more whites are falsely accused than blacks are, which on the other hand says nothing about what the experience for any one individual who is accused might be. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/89 "2011-08-25T16:29:24Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m genuinely surprised that someone who is so passionate about false rape accusations would be unaware of the long history in the US of black men being lynched after falsely being accused of raping white women. I’m perfectly aware of that in its historical context. I’m also aware that, with the best statistics I can currently muster, around 5-10%of rape accusations are false, regardless of the gender of the alleged perpetrator. So as soon as you explain what the blue hell the historical trends in false rape accusations have to do with the facts on the ground today, I’ll be happy. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/90 "2011-08-25T16:30:47Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I’m not sure you guys are really disagreeing with each other. My personal annoyance is with the broad “hysterical” brush being used by the man–there are people (in this thread!) who are practically in hysterics about it, true, but their existence doesn’t say anything about the actual risk, which I understand to be small but significant. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/91 "2011-08-25T16:31:53Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I’m perfectly aware of that in its historical context. I’m also aware that, with the best statistics I can currently muster, around 5-10%of rape accusations are false, regardless of the gender of the alleged perpetrator. > > So as soon as you explain what the blue hell the historical trends in false rape accusations have to do with the facts on the ground today, I’ll be happy. I really dont understand Ibn Warraq’s obsession with turning the DSK case (and the commentaries associated with it) into a race case. I could understand the poor vs rich angle, but the race angle seems really weird here. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/92 "2011-08-25T16:41:30Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > I really dont understand Ibn Warraq’s obsession with turning the DSK case (and the commentaries associated with it) into a race case. I could understand the poor vs rich angle, but the race angle seems really weird here. I wasn’t making a comment about the DSK case just that I could at least understand black men being terrified of false rape accusations due to their history. That said, had the maid in the DSK rape case Bern white I don’t think for two seconds the media would have been recklessly throwing around charges that she was a hooker. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/93 "2011-08-25T16:58:36Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m sorry, I thought lynchings, the KKK and what happened to the Scottsboro boys were well known historical facts. > > Just brush up on your American history and you’ll be fine. I cannot believe that Bricker doesn’t know about those incidents, and I seriously doubt he’s claiming that black men have not been disproportionately accused of rape. Rather, I read his comment as being a subtle (perhaps too subtle) allusion to the fact that white men outnumber black men in this country by a considerable margin, and always have. If there were 10 times as many white men as black men in the population in, say, 1950, then the rate of false accusations of rape against black men would have to be very high for the absolute numbers to be higher than those against white men. In fact I think that black men probably HAVE been accused in greater numbers as well as with greater frequency. But that’s just a feeling, and **Bricker** ’s not unreasonable to ask for statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/94 "2011-08-25T17:01:08Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I wasn’t making a comment about the DSK case just that I could at least understand black men being terrified of false rape accusations due to their history. > > That said, had the maid in the DSK rape case Bern white I don’t think for two seconds the media would have been recklessly throwing around charges that she was a hooker. You’re kidding? Swap Diallo with an Eastern Europe immigrant, and you have exactly the same story. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/95 "2011-08-25T17:13:27Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I wasn’t making a comment about the DSK case just that I could at least understand black men being terrified of false rape accusations due to their history. There you go with that word “terrified”–doesn’t quite mean the same as “aware of a risk”, does it? > [@](#): > > That said, had the maid in the DSK rape case Bern white I don’t think for two seconds the media would have been recklessly throwing around charges that she was a hooker. I think you’re more likely to be correct than not, which is a whole separate problem. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/96 "2011-08-25T17:24:50Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m sorry, I thought lynchings, the KKK and what happened to the Scottsboro boys were well known historical facts. > > Just brush up on your American history and you’ll be fine. Sure. And the Titantic is a well-known event too. But you cannot argue that it’s rational to be concerned about hitting an iceberg, get challenged on the frequency of that event, and respond by advising your interlocutor to study the history of the Titanic. I’m hip to American history. I don’t agree that, numerically, you have a case. Convince me otherwise with some hard data. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/97 "2011-08-25T17:26:40Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > You’re kidding? Swap Diallo with an Eastern Europe immigrant, and you have exactly the same story. No, had Diallo been white the media would not have recklessly thrown around charges she was a prostitute. Similarly if Natalie Holloway had been black, no one would know who she was. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/98 "2011-08-25T17:26:54Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Could her refugee status be revoked on the basis that her reasons for admittance were fabricated? From what I understand, she was raped by a person in her home country but completely made up a compelling story about being gang-raped by several men in order to increase the chances of acceptance. This is apparently a misconception. When she admitted to having fabricated the gang rape story she _claimed_ that she had done so in order to apply for asylum. Subsequently the prosecution discovered that the story was not part of her asylum request, and the claimed origin of the lie turned out to itself be a lie. Cite: [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/nyregion/housekeepers-false-tale-undid-strauss-kahn-case.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/nyregion/housekeepers-false-tale-undid-strauss-kahn-case.html) > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > That said, had the maid in the DSK rape case Bern white I don’t think for two seconds the media would have been recklessly throwing around charges that she was a hooker. I doubt if this is true. Especially as she most likely is one. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/99 "2011-08-25T17:38:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure. And the Titantic is a well-known event too. But you cannot argue that it’s rational to be concerned about hitting an iceberg, get challenged on the frequency of that event, and respond by advising your interlocutor to study the history of the Titanic. > > I’m hip to American history. I don’t agree that, numerically, you have a case. > > Convince me otherwise with some hard data. “I don’t agree that numerically that is the case”. “Convince me otherwise with some hard data.” I didn’t realize that you were ignorant of the thousands of black men lynched on false charges of raping white women. Go to a library and you’ll find plenty of evidence of this. By contrast I’m not aware of white people getting lynched after falsely being accused of rape. Now if you want to argue that historically black men have not historically been persecuted and falsely accused of rape by white men who were felt threatened by them then go ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/100 "2011-08-25T17:55:52Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I didn’t realize that you were ignorant of the thousands of black men lynched on false charges of raping white women. > > Go to a library and you’ll find plenty of evidence of this. You should probably look up the data to back up your claim yourself. According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States) > [@](#): > > The Tuskegee Institute has recorded 3,446 lynchings of blacks and 1,297 lynchings of whites between 1882 and 1968. > [@](#): > > As documented by Ida B. Wells, rape charges or rumors were present in less than one-third of the lynchings; such charges were often pretexts for lynching blacks who violated Jim Crow etiquette or engaged in economic competition with whites. Other common reasons given included arson, theft, assault, and robbery; sexual transgressions (miscegenation, adultery, cohabitation); “race prejudice”, “race hatred”, “racial disturbance;” informing on others; “threats against whites;” and violations of the color line (“attending white girl”, “proposals to white woman”). So it’s about 1,000 charges of rape, total. Question is how many of these charges were false accusations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623.md?page=6)