# Why hasn't DSK's accuser been deported? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623 "2011-08-22T05:34:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/141 "2011-08-28T17:19:25Z")
[quote=“Ibn\_Warraq, post:139, topic:593623”] I’m not sure what makes you think that it was “most likely” a “consensual encounter”.[\quote]I’ve discussed this in another thread, and am not inclined to rehash it. As I said, YMMV. > [@](#): > > Beyond that, the “the NY Post’s source” was a member of the defense team who refused to even provide evidence for his claim or give his name. > > That hardly strikes me as a reliable source. IIRC, their source was a member of the prosecution team. It’s not uncommon for sources to refuse to reveal their names, and it’ snot hard to understand why a source in the prosecutor’s office would do so in this case. Note that in the final prosecution report presented to the judge, two thirds of the original material. Was edited out to avoid embarresing the accusor. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/142 "2011-08-28T19:33:12Z")
[quote=“Fotheringay-Phipps, post:141, topic:593623”] > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m not sure what makes you think that it was “most likely” a “consensual encounter”.[\quote]I’ve discussed this in another thread, and am not inclined to rehash it. As I said, YMMV.IIRC, their source was a member of the prosecution team. It’s not uncommon for sources to refuse to reveal their names, and it’ snot hard to understand why a source in the prosecutor’s office would do so in this case. > > Note that in the final prosecution report presented to the judge, two thirds of the original material. Was edited out to avoid embarresing the accusor. No, the source for the Post’s allegation was a member of the defense team. That’s why it’s utterly asinine to insist that she “probably” was a prostitute. As Gawker(hardly the bastion of responsible journalism) put it. [http://gawker.com/5817649/new-york-post-calls-dsk-accuser-a-whore](http://gawker.com/5817649/new-york-post-calls-dsk-accuser-a-whore) > [@](#): > > So, we’ve got a single, anonymous source, “close to the defense,” who implies, without ever saying, that the maid was a prostitute. Yes… we’d say that’s more than enough evidence to call someone a hooker on the cover of your paper. Just another laudable Saturday-morning front page from the New York Post, America’s Finest News-paper and Identifier of Whores. And yes, had she been white, there’s no way that the media would be so casually tossing around such charges. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/143 "2011-08-28T20:15:34Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > And yes, had she been white, there’s no way that the media would be so casually tossing around such charges. And DSK was arrested because he is Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/144 "2011-08-28T20:33:51Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > And DSK was arrested because he is Jewish. I’m sorry but that’s a remarkably silly comment. Black women have long been stereotyped as hookers. Jewish men have not been stereotyped as being rapists. Besides, while anti-Semitism is certainly still a factor in France, though obviously not remotely as bad as anti-Arab or anti-Muslim bigotry, it’s considerably less in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/145 "2011-08-28T21:00:27Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Lol. > You remind me of **OM4th**. What are you talking about? I never said anything about the woman’s claim reminding me of anything. In fact I explicitly said I think she could be lying, because she has a history of lying and has convincingly lied about rape in the past. You seem to have difficulty reading people’s statements through any other lens but your own prejudice. All I did was talk about what a hellish experience I had when I felt pressured to report childhood abuse that I could not prove, and how difficult it is for any woman who has been victimized to do right in the eyes of others. Maybe falsely accused men feel the same way, I dunno, but it’s not like with your attitude we’re going to have any kumbayah moment about it anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/146 "2011-08-28T21:30:31Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > What are you talking about? I never said anything about the woman’s claim reminding me of anything. In fact I explicitly said I think she could be lying, because she has a history of lying and has convincingly lied about rape in the past. I was refering you saying you couldnt understand how a rape accusation could ruin someone’s life, and saying two sentences later that,of course, having rape charges against you dropped doesnt mean the rape didnt happen. It’s not the contents of your posts or Indygrrl that are similar, it’s the strange way with which you both wrote your posts and that result in some pretty bizarre logic. > [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > You seem to have difficulty reading people’s statements through any other lens but your own prejudice. I wouldnt know what my prejudice lens is supposed to be in this case cause I have no idea about the truth of the events. The only thing that seems reliable is that there was sexual intercourse. From this, I can not deduce anything nor make sweeping statements. Colour me prejudiced. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/147 "2011-08-28T23:18:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Did you believe Crystal Mangum when she accused the whiite, entitled, aggresive lacrosse players at Duke of rape? I honestly can’t remember what my initial thoughts were on that case, but yes, I think I did believe her at first. However, I don’t think it was long after the story broke that it became clear to me that her story was full of holes. As for Diallo’s prior rape story, I haven’t read enough about it to know any details. My only impression is from her account of what happened in the hotel room with DSK. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/148 "2011-08-29T03:27:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But it didn’t. Why don’t you quote the section you feel demonstrates the point’ and I’ll show you why it doesn’t. Because I can see where this is going and it doesn’t seem fun, and it isn’t my battle anyway. I understand the points you’re both making, and I already said I mostly agree with all of it. I just think it’s kind of dirty pool to try to make your point by saying you couldn’t find what **Ibn Warraq** was referring to, and giving the impression that you were poring over the stuff he cited but just couldn’t find it in there, even while quoting him accurately saying what those sources contained. I get that you think he overreached initially, and that you’ve interpreted his statement to imply something that you think you can nail him on, but jesus. He said here’s some documents about white people falsely accusing black people of rape and lynching them for it, and if you read them, which you said you did, you know that’s what they are. You just don’t think they back up his point about white people being paranoid, and probably disagree about what “massive numbers” means. That wouldn’t have been clear to somebody just casually passing through the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/149 "2011-08-29T03:47:58Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > I was refering you saying you couldnt understand how a rape accusation could ruin someone’s life, and saying two sentences later that,of course, having rape charges against you dropped doesnt mean the rape didnt happen. In order for these statements to be contradictory, the latter statement would have to imply that I thought anyone accused of rape is guilty. I don’t. I don’t assume anyone accused is guilty. I just don’t, and I know very few people who do. But obviously it’s possible to be sexually assaulted and not have the evidence to prove it. I provided one such example. Sexual assault can have very complex psychological ramifications on the victim, which may lead to behavior that looks suspicious for anyone not wanting to find fault in the accused. As for a rape accusation ruining one’s life, I don’t understand it. I don’t think being raped can ruin one’s life either. I think both concepts are hyberbolic and do nothing to help the victim in either case. Furthermore, I’ve only ever seen rapists and pedophiles get away with their shit while the victims themselves are crucified. It doesn’t mean real consequences don’t ever happen for the victims of false accusation, it just means I don’t understand it because it’s completely contrary to my lived experience. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/150 "2011-08-29T05:03:21Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > As for a rape accusation ruining one’s life, I don’t understand it. I don’t think being raped can ruin one’s life either. I think both concepts are hyberbolic and do nothing to help the victim in either case. Furthermore, I’ve only ever seen rapists and pedophiles get away with their shit while the victims themselves are crucified. It doesn’t mean real consequences don’t ever happen for the victims of false accusation, it just means I don’t understand it because it’s completely contrary to my lived experience. I can see saying you understand that being raped doesn’t _necessarily_ ruin one’s life, that it didn’t ruin _your_ life, but to say you don’t think it CAN ruin a person’s life? How can you speak for anyone but yourself with regard to that? I don’t think whether or not it “helps” the victim has anything to do with how much damage gets done to a person, and to what extent it effects their life. As for rape or molestation accusations ruining one’s life, I don’t see how that’s difficult at all to imagine. Once a man is accused of something like that, even if he is proven not guilty, there will always be people who will believe he did it. He will most likely lose his job, lose his standing in his community, lose his wife and kids, not to mention having to register as a sex offender everytime he moves. I’ve seen a lot of bad things happen to victims too, and almost none of the women I’ve known who’ve been assaulted and/or abused have gotten anything resembling justice. I know that a shitload of rapists and molesters get away with their crimes over and over. I consider Law and Order SVU a friggin’ fantasy series because it’s so unlike real life with all of the respecting victims, catching perps, guilty verdicts, and whatnot. Still, I think it’s a whole different realm of problems when we start talking about people who have been falsely accused. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/151 "2011-08-29T11:03:46Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > I can see saying you understand that being raped doesn’t _necessarily_ ruin one’s life, that it didn’t ruin _your_ life, but to say you don’t think it CAN ruin a person’s life? How can you speak for anyone but yourself with regard to that? I don’t think whether or not it “helps” the victim has anything to do with how much damage gets done to a person, and to what extent it effects their life. You’re talking to a woman who was disowned by half of her family at the age of 17 - I know the effects can be severely disruptive to one’s life. All I’ve got is my opinion based on my own experience, independent research and a decade of PTSD. A lot of the trauma caused by sexual assault stems from the cognitive patterns of the victim during the aftermath. Catastrophic thinking on the part of the victim literally intensifies the magnitude of the trauma. ‘‘S/he ruined my life’’ is such an all-or-nothing cognitive distortion that I consider it actively harmful for the victim to conceptualize a trauma that way. Of course, I wouldn’t be so blunt with someone in the midst of the aftermath of sexual assault, because these are very difficult thought patterns to change and the last thing you want to do is make a victim feel more to blame for his/her own situation. But that’s just the clinical reality, and any therapist worth his salt should be helping victims to think in a more rational way about their experience. > [@](#): > > Still, I think it’s a whole different realm of problems when we start talking about people who have been falsely accused. There’s understanding something on a cognitive level, and then there’s understanding it on a gut level. I’m so unable to understand this on a gut level that it makes me frustrated and angry. Cognitively, I understand what you’re saying though. I will give more consideration to victims of false accusation. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/152 "2011-08-29T13:14:21Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > I honestly can’t remember what my initial thoughts were on that case, but yes, I think I did believe her at first. However, I don’t think it was long after the story broke that it became clear to me that her story was full of holes. Maybe I just don’t understand what you mean by “believe,” then. My position is that every rape accusation made by a claimed victim should be investigated thoroughly, and never dismissed without an investigation. In that sense, I believe _in_ every accusation. But I also think that when there’s no reason to take a position for or against the ultimate truth or falsity of a claim, then taking a position anyway is a questionable step. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/153 "2011-08-29T13:51:48Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > No, the source for the Post’s allegation was a member of the defense team. > > That’s why it’s utterly asinine to insist that she “probably” was a prostitute. OK, so I dug up the article and my memory was correct after all. The Post had sources both from the prosecution and the defense. [Cite](http://m.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/she_laid_low_as_da_paid_for_digs_8Udq6nhQaHaC4KOOfkctpI) (emphasis added) > [@](#): > > The so-called victim, whose web of lies has crippled the Manhattan DA’s case against the former International Monetary Fund boss, played host to a parade of paying male visitors in the weeks after Strauss-Kahn’s arrest, a **prosecution** source said. > > “While she was under our supervision, there were multiple ‘dates’ and encounters at the hotel on the DA’s dime,” the source said of her paid hotel room. “That’s a great deal for her. She doesn’t have to cover her expenses.” ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/154 "2011-08-29T21:41:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Maybe I just don’t understand what you mean by “believe,” then. > > My position is that every rape accusation made by a claimed victim should be investigated thoroughly, and never dismissed without an investigation. In that sense, I believe _in_ every accusation. > > But I also think that when there’s no reason to take a position for or against the ultimate truth or falsity of a claim, then taking a position anyway is a questionable step. It means that I’m inclined to believe a woman when she says she’s been raped. The percentage of false accusations is too small to put a lot of doubt in my mind when I hear someone say they were raped. Naturally, YMMV, but that’s how I feel about it. I would love to see every rape accusation investigated thoroughly, unfortunately, Law and Order SVU is a fantasy. And if there’s no reason to take a position on the truth of the claim, then why even have threads about the topic? Why even disuss it? In this case, only DSK and Diallo know exactly what transpired in that hotel room, the rest of us have to go by what we read and see on the news. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/155 "2011-08-29T22:14:21Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > The percentage of false accusations is too small Can you put a cite to this, of curiosity? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/156 "2011-08-29T22:32:45Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > It means that I’m inclined to believe a woman when she says she’s been raped. The percentage of false accusations is too small to put a lot of doubt in my mind when I hear someone say they were raped. Naturally, YMMV, but that’s how I feel about it. What do you think the percentage of false accusations is? ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/157 "2011-08-30T00:02:55Z")
> [@](#): > > FBI reports consistently put the number of “unfounded” rape accusations around 8%. > **[Rape statistics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics)** > > Statistics on rape and other acts of sexual assault are commonly available in industrialized countries, and have become better documented throughout the world. Inconsistent definitions of rape, different rates of reporting, recording, prosecution and conviction for rape can create controversial statistical disparities, and lead to accusations that many rape statistics are unreliable or misleading. > In some jurisdictions, male on female rape is the only form of rape counted in the statistics. S... > [@](#): > > According to a recent study by the American Prosecutors Research Institute, false rape allegations account for two to eight percent of all reported rapes. [http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/the\_voice\_vol\_3\_no\_1\_2009.pdf](http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/the_voice_vol_3_no_1_2009.pdf) [http://www.awolau.org/2010/04/05/myth-busters-false-rape-reports/](http://www.awolau.org/2010/04/05/myth-busters-false-rape-reports/) ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/158 "2011-08-30T02:25:43Z")
See, as a man who’s got hit with such an accusation, 8% doesn’t feel small to me. Certainly not even close to as big a problem as the crime of rape. But the fact it’s a small problem compared to the problem of rape doesn’t mean it’s negligible. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/159 "2011-08-30T02:34:37Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > OK, so I dug up the article and my memory was correct after all. The Post had sources both from the prosecution and the defense. [Cite](http://m.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/she_laid_low_as_da_paid_for_digs_8Udq6nhQaHaC4KOOfkctpI) (emphasis added) I’m not particularly convinced by Diallo, but I find it pretty difficult to believe that she was turning tricks right under the NYPD’s nose. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623/160 "2011-08-30T02:49:00Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > See, as a man who’s got hit with such an accusation, 8% doesn’t feel small to me. > > Certainly not even close to as big a problem as the crime of rape. But the fact it’s a small problem compared to the problem of rape doesn’t mean it’s negligible. I don’t think it’s negligible, and I sympathize with people who have been falsely accused, but it’s still small enough that I believe women when they say they’ve been raped. Most of the time the victim’s account of what happened rings true because it’s similar to stories I’ve heard from women in my life who have been raped or abused, or both. The idea that there are so many women calling rape when it’s a “buyers remorse” situation is ridiculous. And I’m sick of people using it as more reason to doubt and shame victims. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-dsks-accuser-been-deported/593623.md?page=9)