# Why hasn't Obama repealed "Don't Ask Don't Tell"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2009, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178 "2009-07-07T08:35:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lonestar88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lonestar88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonestar88)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/21 "2009-07-07T15:34:24Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Why not? We’ve had drafts before while gays weren’t allowed in the military. **In fact, during the Vietnam War, anti-draft/anti-war groups suggested that people say they were gay so they wouldn’t be drafted. Most notably, that’s how Chevy Chase got out of serving in 1967** ; by falsely claiming he was gay. You answered your own question. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/22 "2009-07-07T15:41:41Z")
> [@lonestar88](#): > > You answered your own question. I don’t think I did. The fact is, neither a ban on gays in the military, nor a few people falsely claiming to be gay to dodge the draft stopped the draft from happening in the past. I don’t see why it would in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/23 "2009-07-07T15:45:17Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Yes, Obama has a lot on his plate. > > But issuing an executive order takes a second. He could have done it any time, and WOULD have done it if he really cared about it. Hell, I’m a conservative Catholic, and even I would have given the order to allow gays to serve openly. > > The Left has to accept that Obama is either > > 1. A coward, or > > 2. A BS artist… As I lefty, I’m not all that impressed with Obama so far. Single payer should have been the law of the land by now. However, the military suffers from a serious infection of old time religion. Pissing them off by forcing gays onto em is just bound to cause all sorts of trouble. It’s better to purge the infection _then_ change the policy. Prudence is neither cowardice nor BS. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/24 "2009-07-07T15:47:38Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t think I did. The fact is, neither a ban on gays in the military, nor a few people falsely claiming to be gay to dodge the draft stopped the draft from happening in the past. I don’t see why it would in the future. Claiming you were gay and had a lot more social reprecussions and was considerably more taboo in 1967. Even a lot of the people who were actually gay didn’t openly claim to be gay, nevermind But now much of the stigma is gone, and its a hell of a lot easier to claim to be gay then to pull up stakes and run to Canada. Plus, of course, while in 1967 a good chunk of the actual gay population was in the closet and so presumably got drafted anyways. Now that closeted gays are rarer, even beyond people falsely claiming to be gay, DADT would be excluding several percent of the population from the draft. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/25 "2009-07-07T15:49:42Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > …that’s how Chevy Chase got out of serving in 1967; by falsely claiming he was gay. Reminds me of the movie Stripes. \*Now, sometimes the Army’s your best shot. There’s some questions I have to ask. They’re a little personal. Have you ever been convicted of a felony or a misdemeanour? That’s robbery, rape, car theft, that sort of thing? - Convicted? - Yeah. - No. - Never convicted. That’s good. Good. Are either of you homosexuals? You mean, like, flaming or…? Well, it’s a standard question we have to ask. No, we’re not homosexual, but we are willing to learn. Yeah, would they send us someplace special? \* ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/26 "2009-07-07T15:51:20Z")
How about: Obama isn’t a champion of gay rights? The black community as a whole is pretty anti-gay. Obama has said that he’s opposed to gay marriage on religious grounds. So why would you think he has a burning desire to overturn ‘don’t ask - don’t tell’? My guess is that his military advisers have told him not to do it, and his political advisers have told him not to do it, and it’s an issue that doesn’t matter much to him, so he’s not going to do it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/27 "2009-07-07T16:13:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > How about: Obama isn’t a champion of gay rights? > > The black community as a whole is pretty anti-gay. Obama has said that he’s opposed to gay marriage on religious grounds. So why would you think he has a burning desire to overturn ‘don’t ask - don’t tell’? Well, he did make a campaign promise to do so. That doesn’t equate to a “burning desire”, but it does mean that he supports the repeal. > [@](#): > > My guess is that his military advisers have told him not to do it, and his political advisers have told him not to do it, and it’s an issue that doesn’t matter much to him, so he’s not going to do it. My guess is that, to the extent anyone is really even talking about this, it’s members of his party in Congress who are slowing things down. I expect that there are at least a few Democratic Congresscritters who are not wild about going on record as having allowed gays in the military. As others have noted, Congress must act on this. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/28 "2009-07-07T16:38:39Z")
> [@Daddypants](#): > > Because there are much more important things in the US and around the world to fix first. Uh…does that mean that this is less important than the DTV switch that he devoted time to already? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/29 "2009-07-07T16:40:24Z")
It could still be ahead of getting the NCAA to establish a Division 1 football playoff system, though. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/30 "2009-07-07T16:45:04Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t think I did. The fact is, neither a ban on gays in the military, nor a few people falsely claiming to be gay to dodge the draft stopped the draft from happening in the past. I don’t see why it would in the future. Yeah, let’s not forget [Perry Watkins](http://glbthistory.org/OutranksWeb/Vietnam/Vietnam.htm). > [@](#): > > Drafted by the U.S. Army in 1968, Perry Watkins admitted he was gay. He even became something of a minor celebrity for his drag shows as “Simone” in enlisted men’s clubs. The Army discharged him in 1981 based on his admission of homosexuality in 1968, but the courts order him reinstated, because Watkins had never lied to the Army. He’s African-American, too. Wee! ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/31 "2009-07-07T16:46:08Z")
So if I understand, he needs to spend his political capital on the economy, the environement, and health care. And then he will be able to use his remaining political capital on DADT, I wonder how much he will have left. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/32 "2009-07-07T16:46:12Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > But now much of the stigma is gone, and its a hell of a lot easier to claim to be gay then to pull up stakes and run to Canada. Plus, of course, while in 1967 a good chunk of the actual gay population was in the closet and so presumably got drafted anyways. Now that closeted gays are rarer, even beyond people falsely claiming to be gay, DADT would be excluding several percent of the population from the draft. There’s still an awful lot of stigma regarding homosexuality, so I don’t think it would be common. Especially, because of don’t ask, don’t tell, the draft board just wouldn’t ask. What would likely happen is what the current _de facto_ military policy is on homosexuality, which is, if you’re gay and they need you enough, they overlook it until they don’t need you anymore, and then they kick you out for being gay. Regardless of the actual regulations, that’s been the military’s real policy on homosexuality for quite some time. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/33 "2009-07-07T16:48:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It just amazes me that this is even an issue for the political conservatives. I always thought high regard for the men and women serving in the military was a firm aspect of their political outlook. The homosexual men and women serving in the military have given excellent service to this country, same as most other service members. Why should what they do in the privacy of their own bedroom change any of that? It is appalling really. I guess I qualify to answer this. Actually I do support repealing DADT, but this notion you have of protecting the privacy of a bedroom is just a foolish piece of twaddle when discussing military matters. According to the UCMJ there is no real privacy in this area - many things that are either small offenses or completely legal in the civilian world are criminalized in the military, as they are an affront to good order and discipline. Likewise, as a practical matter privacy does not exist in the military to the degree that it does in civilian life. For about two years of my Navy enlistment I had 95 roommates - what privacy existed there? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I have seen the military suggest that homosexuals undermine unit cohesion and some other buzz-terms of military life. Has that ever been shown? Again, note that I support repeal of this law. That doesn’t change the fact that I witnessed two severe incidents in my five years of active duty involving gay servicemembers - these were massive breakdowns of discipline that had adverse effects on two separate military units. So while I think repeal is necessary, I don’t kid myself that things will be hunky-dory afterwards. A massive amount of training and strong discipline within units will be necessary to accomplish this, and even then there will be some incidents that will have to be dealt with individually. The same applies to straight servicemembers, who get in trouble from time to time for adultery, nonsupport, sexual abuse, harassment and numerous other crimes. It would be wishful thinking to suppose that gay servicemembers are immune from this, both as perpetrators and victims. Dealing with this in the aftermath of repeal is the real test, and while I think the military can handle it people who don’t see the need for this are fooling themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/34 "2009-07-07T17:01:26Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I guess I qualify to answer this. Actually I do support repealing DADT, but this notion you have of protecting the privacy of a bedroom is just a foolish piece of twaddle when discussing military matters. According to the UCMJ there is no real privacy in this area - many things that are either small offenses or completely legal in the civilian world are criminalized in the military, as they are an affront to good order and discipline. Likewise, as a practical matter privacy does not exist in the military to the degree that it does in civilian life. > > For about two years of my Navy enlistment I had 95 roommates - what privacy existed there? Note I said “their own bedroom”. When living with 95 other men I would not deem that as their own bedroom. When they go home on leave I’d say who they take into their bed is their own concern. Certainly some behaviors are not cool while living in a military situation and that is understandable. I see nothing about being homosexual that makes a person any less capable of living in they environment. Indeed many homosexuals do get on just fine in that environment today and are not sneaking into their bunkmate’s bed for a quickie. > [@](#): > > Again, note that I support repeal of this law. That doesn’t change the fact that I witnessed two severe incidents in my five years of active duty involving gay servicemembers - these were massive breakdowns of discipline that had adverse effects on two separate military units. So while I think repeal is necessary, I don’t kid myself that things will be hunky-dory afterwards. A massive amount of training and strong discipline within units will be necessary to accomplish this, and even then there will be some incidents that will have to be dealt with individually. > > The same applies to straight servicemembers, who get in trouble from time to time for adultery, nonsupport, sexual abuse, harassment and numerous other crimes. It would be wishful thinking to suppose that gay servicemembers are immune from this, both as perpetrators and victims. Dealing with this in the aftermath of repeal is the real test, and while I think the military can handle it people who don’t see the need for this are fooling themselves. Gay service members are people like anyone else. Some are smart, some stupid. Some are cool, some assholes. They merely have a particular sexual attraction. Nothing else about them makes them any different and they are subject to all the foibles any human is. So sure, there will be conflict with gay service members. Bet there are interracial conflicts on occasion too in the military but we do not segregate or restrict service because of this. How is this any different? There are lots and lots of cases where service men/women have served with distinction. Served for years and years. Then all of a sudden it’s, “You’re gay? You’re outta here!” Makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/35 "2009-07-07T17:05:04Z")
Because telling gay people they can wait for their rights seems to be a perfectly valid political strategy. Elected officials routinely bump gay issues to the back burner in citing just about anything as a ‘more important’ issue. Why should Obama be any different. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/36 "2009-07-07T17:15:36Z")
Why hasn’t Obama done something? Because he doesn’t give a shit about gay people – at least not after he’s gotten their vote. And hell, there will be enough gays who will buy the excuse that “he had to work on other priorities first but then will get to granting them equal rights” and subsequently vote for him for a second term (and it’s not like they’re going to vote Republican, anyway) that he doesn’t need to do anything for them. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/37 "2009-07-07T17:23:05Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > There are lots and lots of cases where service men/women have served with distinction. Served for years and years. Then all of a sudden it’s, “You’re gay? You’re outta here!” Makes no sense. [Here’s](http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090701/NEWS/907010355) a recent one. Yet another Arabic interpreter. It makes me weep that such a wonderful country can still be so blatantly, gloriously backwards. It would be deliciously ironic – the slavish, bumper-stickered soldier love and demand for protection at all costs versus the firing of a dozen valuable translators for what legal, consensual things they like to do with their genitals – if it weren’t so tragic. An excerpt: > [@](#): > > Choi’s unit — one of the nation’s oldest and most revered — has gained a new sort of notoriety since he came out. While the battalion finished urban warfare training in Kentucky last Sunday, Choi, who’d been excused, was grand marshaling the annual gay pride parade in San Francisco. > > When asked if the controversy was tough on the rest of the troops, Lt. Col. Paul Fanning, spokesman for the unit, quipped, “Compared to what?” > > Sifting through rubble at the World Trade Center? Losing soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan? “We just continue to do our mission,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![lonestar88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lonestar88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonestar88)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/38 "2009-07-07T17:46:51Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > There’s still an awful lot of stigma regarding homosexuality, so I don’t think it would be common. Especially, because of don’t ask, don’t tell, the draft board just wouldn’t ask. What would likely happen is what the current _de facto_ military policy is on homosexuality, which is, if you’re gay and they need you enough, they overlook it until they don’t need you anymore, and then they kick you out for being gay. Regardless of the actual regulations, that’s been the military’s real policy on homosexuality for quite some time. I don’t know about “an awful lot of stigma” now, even here in Texas. Especially for younger people, who have probably grown up seeing openly gay people on TV, something you didn’t see in the '60s. I think even some parents would encourage “coming out” vs drafting in, which I wouldn’t expect of many parents in the '60s. Besides, as everyone knows sexuality is a choice, right? The military currently is kicking people out for stating they are gay, hmmm, and here I thought it was a time of war and they need recruits… [http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/6505558.html](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/6505558.html) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/39 "2009-07-07T17:48:12Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090701/NEWS/907010355) a recent one. Yet another Arabic interpreter. It makes me weep that such a wonderful country can still be so blatantly, gloriously backwards. It would be deliciously ironic – the slavish, bumper-stickered soldier love and demand for protection at all costs versus the firing of a dozen valuable translators for what legal, consensual things they like to do with their genitals – if it weren’t so tragic. Here’s another one…[Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach](http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/05/local-war-hero-plays-by-rules-still-fired/). Some points of note: > [@](#): > > Air Force Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, a decorated military weapons systems officer who grew up in the Dayton area, is being recommended for discharge after 18 years of service for homosexual conduct, an Air Force spokesperson said. > > \ > > Fehrenbach, 39, an assistant director of operations for the 366th Operations Support Squadron at Mountain Home Air Force Base in Idaho, said Wednesday, May 27, that he was outed by a civilian acquaintance. > > Fehrenbach’s sister, Angela Trumbauer of Huber Heights, said her brother served in Iraq, Afghanistan and Kosovo and was awarded nine air medals, including one for heroism during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. > > \ > > Another lesson: They’re not just taking your service, they’re taking your veteran’s benefits. > > ``` > * Lt. Col. Fehrenbach will lose $46,000 a year plus medical benefits for the rest of his life because he won’t be permitted to serve less than two more years until he’s eligible for full retirement. > > * With an honorable discharge, Lt. Col. Fehrenbach would receive $80,000 in separation pay. Since he’s fighting the discharge, he will receive nothing at the end of his 18-year career. > > ``` > > SOURCE: [http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/05/local-war-hero-plays-by-rules-still-fired/](http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/05/local-war-hero-plays-by-rules-still-fired/) Note he did not “tell”. Someone else outted him. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178/40 "2009-07-07T17:54:11Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Gay service members are people like anyone else. Some are smart, some stupid. Some are cool, some assholes. They merely have a particular sexual attraction. Nothing else about them makes them any different and they are subject to all the foibles any human is. So sure, there will be conflict with gay service members. Bet there are interracial conflicts on occasion too in the military but we do not segregate or restrict service because of this. How is this any different? > > There are lots and lots of cases where service men/women have served with distinction. Served for years and years. Then all of a sudden it’s, “You’re gay? You’re outta here!” Makes no sense. This is one of those things you either get or you don’t. America’s military has a macho culture that looks down on homosexuality. People think it would undermine the morale of military service personnel to have open homosexuals in service. That’s all there is to it. I don’t know if this attitude is right or wrong, but there it is. Whether or not the American military should change its macho culture is a different issue. But it seems to me that this is clearly the reason why homosexuality in the military is so controversial. It’s a clear-cut thing. It is not comparable to racial issues because masculinity is a concept that transcends races or creeds. That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it. Maybe it’s different in other countries. The UK doesn’t have the same kind of macho culture in the military, I guess. But over here, in America, it does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-obama-repealed-dont-ask-dont-tell/502178.md?page=3)