# Why hasn't South America played a bigger role in the world? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 28, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347 "2012-11-28T03:57:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Oedipus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Oedipus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oedipus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/1 "2012-11-28T03:57:48Z")
Now, I will by no means call myself a South American history scholar. Hell, I barely know what’s going on down there most of the time anyway. But I think that reveals the larger problem. Until very, very recently, South America hasn’t done jack on the world stage. I get that it had problems early on before the conquistadors came and brought with them beasts of burden and wheel technology. However, America started at roughly the same place and it became the great nation it is today. When great leaders rose from the unlikeliest of places, South America never really produced a Napoleon, or a Genghis Khan, or a Washington. Even though it seems to have abundant natural resources, it just never really took off and everyone seems to just kind of forget about them until the World Cup rolls around every 4 years. Even in the greatest and most expansive conflict known to man, Brazil was the only country to take part in WWII, and, even then, they barely participated. So what happened? Why, out of all of the places in the world, did South America get the short end of the stick? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/2 "2012-11-28T04:04:41Z")
Smart cookies! Look what happens to the big, aggressive players. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/3 "2012-11-28T04:18:10Z")
When they aren’t being oppressed by _el Norte_? I dunno, Lula’s pretty well-regarded, but if you’re looking for a Genghis Khan, South America’s not a real natural place for that. ---
**Author:** ![Oedipus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Oedipus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oedipus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/4 "2012-11-28T04:20:17Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Smart cookies! Look what happens to the big, aggressive players. Say what you want, I’m sure it was pretty nice in the empires while the ruler was still around…you know…before someone not as awesome stepped in and ruined it all. ---
**Author:** ![Oedipus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Oedipus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oedipus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/5 "2012-11-28T04:23:08Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > When they aren’t being oppressed by _el Norte_? I dunno, Lula’s pretty well-regarded, but if you’re looking for a Genghis Khan, South America’s not a real natural place for that. I know South America isn’t the steppes of Asia nor 19th century France…but there have been people to develop huge empires in worse conditions than the Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/6 "2012-11-28T05:20:11Z")
Well, as far as world leaders, please Wikipedia the articles on Jose de San Martin, Bernardo O’Higgins and Simon Bolivar. As far as not knowing much about South America, I’m afraid only you can fix that. You should travel and visit. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/7 "2012-11-28T05:36:18Z")
During the past two centuries South American countries have had to emerge from a sequence of dictatorships to create stable democracies. In addition these countries seldomly engaged in war between themselves, mainly dealing with civil wars. These situations discouraged investment and growth until recently. In this century South America is emerging rapidly as an economic force. ---
**Author:** ![Oedipus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Oedipus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oedipus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/8 "2012-11-28T05:39:59Z")
> [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > Well, as far as world leaders, please Wikipedia the articles on Jose de San Martin, Bernardo O’Higgins and Simon Bolivar. > > As far as not knowing much about South America, I’m afraid only you can fix that. You should travel and visit. I’ll concede Bolivar. I’m still wondering, though, why Brazil and the other countries lagged behind sonics for so long (and still are in some cases). Brazil has had the land and resources to be a top 10 country for a LONG time, but its only been in the past couple years that they’ve cracked that list. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/9 "2012-11-28T10:46:20Z")
> [@Oedipus](#): > > I’m still wondering, though, why Brazil and the other countries lagged behind sonics for so long (and still are in some cases). Brazil has had the land and resources to be a top 10 country for a LONG time, but its only been in the past couple years that they’ve cracked that list. Well, speaking in terms of economics people often don’t appreciate how big a difference the neighbourhood makes. So, if you’re a country in Eastern Europe, and you implement market reforms, you may see your economy shoot up 7 or 8 percent a year for a while with little effort because you have wealthy markets to sell to (yes, even in the current climate), lots of places to buy parts from / send stuff for assembly if need be, good infrastructure nearby if you want to send your goods further afield etc. Conversely if you implement similar market reforms in a landlocked african country, you may see virtually no growth for a long time. And while countries are dirt poor they are timebombs for things like civil wars and rebellions, which also often spill over borders. So significant regions of the world can become poverty traps. Such has been the case with South America. The nearest decent market is the US, and that’s not so near\*. But change is definitely underway and it’s certainly further along than africa. - Yes, I know China is not close to the US either, but China has not needed to rely on the US as the only place to buy and sell. China has lots of wealthy neighbours. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/10 "2012-11-28T10:50:33Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Smart cookies! Look what happens to the big, aggressive players. What does happen to them? I can’t see a pattern. In terms of being “aggressive” France and the UK have everybody beat and I’d rather live in either of those countries than anywhere in South America. Today, America is the big boy and life seems pretty good for the overwhelming majority of Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/11 "2012-11-28T13:14:46Z")
> [@Oedipus](#): > > So what happened? Why, out of all of the places in the world, did South America get the short end of the stick? Shorter than Africa? ---
**Author:** ![Oedipus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Oedipus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oedipus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/12 "2012-11-28T14:57:04Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Well, speaking in terms of economics people often don’t appreciate how big a difference the neighbourhood makes. So, if you’re a country in Eastern Europe, and you implement market reforms, you may see your economy shoot up 7 or 8 percent a year for a while with little effort because you have wealthy markets to sell to (yes, even in the current climate), lots of places to buy parts from / send stuff for assembly if need be, good infrastructure nearby if you want to send your goods further afield etc. > > Conversely if you implement similar market reforms in a landlocked african country, you may see virtually no growth for a long time. And while countries are dirt poor they are timebombs for things like civil wars and rebellions, which also often spill over borders. > So significant regions of the world can become poverty traps. > > Such has been the case with South America. The nearest decent market is the US, and that’s not so near\*. But change is definitely underway and it’s certainly further along than africa. > > - Yes, I know China is not close to the US either, but China has not needed to rely on the US as the only place to buy and sell. China has lots of wealthy neighbours. I think this may be getting us closer to the root of the problem… Did all of these South American places get dirt poor, rather than expanding exponentially like their northern neighbor, because the conquistadors just sucked up all their resources instead of turning SA into a more stable, long-lasting colonial region? ---
**Author:** ![Jormungandr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jormungandr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jormungandr)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/13 "2012-11-28T17:34:19Z")
It really depends on what country you’re talking about here. Wars had huge impact on many of them. Up to the late 1800’s. Bolivia large sources of nitrate and a coastline. After the [War of the Pacific](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific), it had neither. Paraguay was nearly was wiped out by Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay in the [War of the Triple Alliance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War), with some estimates putting the death toll at 60% to as high as 90% of the entire population. ---
**Author:** ![Oedipus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Oedipus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oedipus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/14 "2012-11-29T03:20:11Z")
Very interesting post from **Newlyfailedaccount** in Reddit’s AskHistorian’s section (where I’m currently taking a beating for my wording). > [@](#): > > Interesting observation on the matter but the development of South America has always been marred by political divisions relating to the conservative and liberal elements. To add further, the greatest struggle to South America was its failed economic potential in which much of its economy was based off commodity prices (Still sort of is today). I would argue that in fact, South America has played a relatively marginal role within international politics up until the later part of the 20th century > While it is true that a large number of European immigrants did arrive during the 19th and early 20th century, the long term benefits were short lived as Argentine beef couldn’t sustain constant economic growth along with Brazilian rubber and coffee. The politicalization of economic policy via the Import Substitute Model did provide a sort of frame work for industrialization yet, produced long term failure as those industries proved both unprofitable and inefficient. > \*I’ll write more later, have no time right now > TLDR: South America failed to establish a stable long term economic and political policy. In return, limited its role on the World stage. > Ever heard the quote, “As wealthy as an Argentine”? Link to other thread: [Reddit - The heart of the internet](http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/13x1y6/why_hasnt_south_america_played_a_bigger_role_in/) ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/15 "2012-11-30T20:32:22Z")
Well, I’d say that the biggest reason was that until about 1970 or so, none of these nations had anything like a modern manufacturing economy. They were all agricultural economies, with the export of raw materials a close second. That meant that they had to import most of their machinery, which meant that developing a high tech military was next to impossible. Look at Argentina-it went to war with Great Britain in 1982-with a navy that consisted of WWII-vintage ships, and an airforce made up of opbsolete aircraft imported from europe. The results were predicatble-Argentina was handed a humiliating defeat. Brazil is now ready to play a world role-it has its own indigenous manufacturing economy, and is powerful enough to start exerting influence beyond its borders. Brazil makes its own guns, tanks, ships and fighter planes. But its the only country in SA capable of doing so. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/16 "2012-11-30T20:50:36Z")
Since its founding, the United States has offered its people freedom in the fields of religion, thought, speech, and economic activity, more than almost any other country on earth. It has also been open to immigration until fairly recently. This made the United States a highly desirable place to live, and countless talented people have moved here. Once here, they founded businesses, invented inventions, and otherwise made life better. South American countries have not offered their people nearly as much freedom on average. The continent’s history is marked by wars, dictatorships, and oppression. In most South American countries, at most times, people were not free to found businesses and seek personal profit. Basic freedom such as speech were often limited. In some countries laws restricted freedom to practice any religion but Catholicism until the 19th century, though they were rarely enforced. A century ago, Argentina seemed like a country poised for prosperity and generally a good life, but the Juan Person dictatorship and his socialist policies put an end to that. Argentina has been a basket case ever since. It’s true that South America generally has a great many natural resources. However, contra anything Jared Diamond may have written, natural resources don’t determine a country’s destiny. Freedom is what matters. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-south-america-played-a-bigger-role-in-the-world/642347/17 "2012-11-30T21:35:03Z")
South America isn’t really _that_ rich in natural resources, as far as continents go. A huge portion of the continent is jungle, high altitude mountains and desert, none of which are particularly good for agriculture. Their mineral resources aren’t really spectacular either-- they’ve got some precious metals, but not a lot a lot of accessible energy resources. I think they’re generally doing okay for themselves considering what an utter dog of a continent they’ve got to work with.