# Why hasn't the media rubbed our noses in COVID deaths? It might be the thing that saves us **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [November 27, 2020, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555 "2020-11-27T05:43:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/205 "2020-12-05T18:25:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > 95% of the population isn’t at significant medical risk of the virus. Everybody I know who got the virus described it as a mild flu. There are ICU wards FILLED with COVID patients on ventilators who would tell you it is anything but “mild”. Anecdotally, the people I know who have gotten it (tested as positive) did not go to the hospital and none died but all said it was one of the worst “flu-like” experience they have ever had. I know there are some with mild symptoms and some who never have symptoms. But it remains the ICU wards are full of sick people gasping for breath. 5x more Americans have died from it than died in 20 years in Vietnam. And they are most certainly not all really old people. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/206 "2020-12-05T18:28:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > More lives would have been saved if we focused assets on those who needed it instead of relying on a feel good financial bandaid that hinged on people’s behavior. Countries with successful mitigation efforts would beg to differ. (see: Germany) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/207 "2020-12-05T18:30:54Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Yes, I am, but I think that, given current trends on infections and hospitalizations, it’s a reasonable what-if question to ask. Yes but you’re asking it in a vacuum. There are 3 vaccines that are less than 2 weeks from use. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > You can build temporary hospitals all day long, but those need the right kinds of people to staff them, or we’re still SOL. Not entirely true but a reasoned concern absent a vaccine. Part, not all of the problem is a potential lack of specific ICU units. That is not a personnel shortage but a protocol shortage. We saw this with the hospital ship. It was sent to relieve non-covid patients but NY wanted it for covid patients so they reconfigured the ship. But yes, we could overrun the number of personnel needed. We still have military medical staff that can be used (and were in NYC). I would be concerned about that if we weren’t getting vaccines shortly. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/208 "2020-12-05T18:54:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes but you’re asking it in a vacuum. There are 3 vaccines that are less than 2 weeks from use. I most certainly am not, and I am absolutely well aware of the imminent vaccines. We are two weeks (hopefully) from the vaccines _beginning_ to be administered. This does not mean that there will be a magic light switch being flipped in the latter half of December, and things will suddenly get better. As I already noted to you, even though the first recipients of the vaccine are going to be those in assisted living facilities (and critical healthcare providers), they will not all be suddenly vaccinated and immune in two weeks. - It’s going to take a number of weeks (maybe even a couple of months) to get those populations vaccinated - All three of the initial vaccination formulae require _two_ doses, given three to four weeks apart - My understanding is that immunity still takes several weeks to develop, even after the second dose In the meantime, cases (and hospitalizations, and deaths) are going to continue to grow, rapidly, over the next couple of months. The widespread travel and family gatherings last weekend mean that the die has been cast – as bad as the numbers are now, they are going to be substantially worse by the end of December. And, those first rounds of vaccinations don’t address the people who are at significantly higher risk for complications, and death, due to age or co-morbidities, but who aren’t in assisted living. They probably aren’t going to be getting vaccinated until late winter or spring, and they are still going to be getting sick in the meantime. Don’t get me wrong – the news about vaccines is amazing, and I think we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. The issue is that the next couple of months, before all of the most vulnerable can get inoculated, are very likely to be a nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/209 "2020-12-05T19:14:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Countries with successful mitigation efforts would beg to differ. (see: Germany) Germany’s new case count was 1,453 at the beginning of Sept and now it’s 22,000. They have had a good track record for deaths. The UK was had twice the death count as the US. The high count has switched twice and they are again higher than the US. Do you want to compare the mitigation protocols of these 3 countries and explain why the numbers fluctuate as they have? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/210 "2020-12-05T19:20:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you want to compare the mitigation protocols of these 3 countries and explain why the numbers fluctuate as they have? Sure. Germany did it right then let their guard down. I do not know about the UK. I’ll have to read more. But I don’t think there is any mystery here. We know how viruses spread. [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-rki-idUSKBN28D18A](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-rki-idUSKBN28D18A) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/211 "2020-12-05T19:42:37Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > - It’s going to take a number of weeks (maybe even a couple of months) to get those populations vaccinated > - All three of the initial vaccination formulae require _two_ doses, given three to four weeks apart > - My understanding is that immunity still takes several weeks to develop, even after the second dose why do you think it will take months to vaccinate people in nursing homes? Are they hard to pin down? As to immunity [here is what Pfizer says](https://www.newscientist.com/article/2261805-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine/): **How long does it take for immunity to develop fully after vaccination?** The trial began assessing immunity seven days after the second shot. We know that protective immunity builds up within four weeks of the first dose, but Sahin says that it appears to develop earlier than that. Further details will be published in a matter of days, he says. So the second dose appears to reinforce the first dose. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/212 "2020-12-05T19:53:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > why do you think it will take months to vaccinate people in nursing homes? Are they hard to pin down? There are ~3 million people living in ~50,000 assisted care and residential facilities across the U.S., so it’s, in part, an issue of them being spread out and decentralized. The government is working with Walgreens and CVS to administer the vaccine to nursing home residents, as well as the workers at those facilities. In addition, it’s not yet clear exactly when enough vaccines will be available to complete the program. As per this _Washington Post_ article from yesterday: > [@](#): > > “The concept of vaccinating all the staff and residents in our facilities is monumental,” said Richard Feifer, executive vice president and chief medical officer of Genesis HealthCare, the largest nursing-home chain in the country with 341 facilities in 24 states. The company has about 30,000 residents in its care and 45,000 employees. > > Timing and volume of the vaccine that could be arriving at the doorstep of the nursing homes remains unclear. “That could begin in a matter of days to weeks,” Feifer said. > [@](#): > > Executives at CVS and Walgreens said in interviews that their biggest challenge remains uncertainties about the flow of vaccine supply. If the job goes smoothly, it could be complete by March. > > Long-term-care facilities were given a deadline to choose which pharmacy they wished to use to conduct on-site clinics. If they did not want to use CVS or Walgreens, they were free to choose another channel, but few have chosen that route. Walgreens said it was selected by about 20,000 of the facilities; CVS said it was chosen by about 30,000. > > “For us the complication has really been about planning for a wide variety of different outcomes in terms of timing and product available,” said Chris Cox, senior vice president at CVS who is the company’s liaison to Operation Warp Speed. **The goal is to get all the long-term care residents vaccinated within three months** — a schedule that includes both the initial shot and the booster, Cox said. CVS said it also will be vaccinating staff members in nursing homes. So, yes, really, it’s probably going to take months. > **[Beleaguered nursing homes prepare for monumental task of vaccinating...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/12/04/nursing-homes-residents-vaccine-cvs-walgreens/)** > > Building on their experience of delivering flu shots, the pharmacy chains are laying plans to administer the vaccines to 50,000 residential settings across the country. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/213 "2020-12-05T23:52:04Z")
We have 45 nursing homes in my county. There’s literally no reason why they all can’t be vacinated within a few days. you take the total number of people and divide that by the number that can be processed in a day. That’s how many medical people are needed to work a double shift. Done. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/214 "2020-12-05T23:55:17Z")
The people who are actually _in charge_ of doing this, and who are actually looking at the full logistics of it, are saying it’s going to take up to three months. It appears that a major factor is uncertainty in how many does that they will have access to, and when. I certainly hope it won’t take three months, but I do place at least some weight on the assessments of the people who are having to actually get it done. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/215 "2020-12-06T00:04:47Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Germany did it right then let their guard down. > > I do not know about the UK. I’ll have to read more. > > But I don’t think there is any mystery here. We know how viruses spread. Yes, we know how it spreads. But it doesn’t blow in on Monday with a warning whistle. It’s constantly moving because there is no way of locking everything down. This has been the problem from day one. If there’s no way of locking everything down then masks have limited effect over time. The more mobile a population the more it’s going to move around. It hasn’t hit the US as a unified event. It’s popped up from place to place just as it’s doing in places like Germany, the UK, and the US. Given the size of the US we’re a mirror of Europe in how it’s spread. So while I don’t discount effective use of masks over time the best use of money is to focus on the vulnerable which is exactly what we’re going to do with the vaccine. I think the hierarchy of distribution reflects what I’ve been saying. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/216 "2020-12-06T00:24:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So while I don’t discount effective use of masks over time the best use of money is to focus on the vulnerable which is exactly what we’re going to do with the vaccine. I think the hierarchy of distribution reflects what I’ve been saying. This is all well and good but the vaccines are only just now coming online. It will still take several months for that to works its way through. ISTM you have been complaining about mitigation efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/217 "2020-12-06T00:38:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > ISTM you have been complaining about mitigation efforts. I’m trying to point out that financial damage isn’t sustainable. I think it was Paul Volcker who said “, in the long term we’re dead”. Which means you also have to plan for the short term. Mitigation efforts that cause economic harm will deteriorate over time because it’s based on social behavior. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/218 "2020-12-07T07:32:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Why you would wait until the other half of the country is also sick is mystifying. Who said half the country would get sick? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > We know what to do. We’ve been getting some mixed and even contradictory messages about that. We were first told masks weren’t necessary. But later we were told they lied to keep supplying the limited number of masks to health care workers. But Fauci took his mask off when he thought the cameras were off. Biden lowered his mask to cough. Chicago spent $6 million to set up McCormick Place convention center as a hospital. I don’t know if _anyone_ was sent there, and they dismantled it. A Navy hospital ship was sent to New York. COVID cases were sent to nursing homes instead. If things are as bad as you say, the media has **every incentive** to plaster it all over the place just to hit Trump with it. **But they haven’t.** The first guess is that the situation really isn’t that bad **yet**. It’s bad, and it could get a lot worse, and we must do whatever we can to prevent it. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/219 "2020-12-07T09:26:41Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > There are ~3 million people living in ~50,000 assisted care and residential facilities across the U.S., so it’s, in part, an issue of them being spread out and decentralized. Those 3 million or so who Magiver feels are the target population who we will save by circling freezer trucks full of vaccine around nursing homes represent perhaps 15% of the US population aged 75 years or older. The other 85% over 75 years remain vulnerable. There are not enough aircraft in the USA to airlift them to the vanishing number of vacant ICU beds dotted around the countryside. Unless you want to send in your National Guard troops to protect Millicent Chudley at 53 Green Street, Crapton, she will remain vulnerable and at high risk until the vaccination is distributed and effective across the general population. With increased cases caused by Thanksgiving likely to be amplified by Christmas travel, its hard to see how the US hospital system will not hit capacity by late December. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/220 "2020-12-08T05:32:26Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > There are not enough aircraft in the USA to airlift them to the vanishing number of vacant ICU beds dotted around the countryside. We haven’t begun to tap into medical transport. Not even a little. When ICU’s max out we’ve built 17 field hospitals]([U.S. Field Hospitals Stand Down, Most Without Treating Any COVID-19 Patients : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2020/05/07/851712311/u-s-field-hospitals-stand-down-most-without-treating-any-covid-19-patients)). So far they’ve gone mostly unused but we’ve demonstrated the ability to build ahead of need. Not to underscore the seriousness of the current situation we’ve had the same discussion about Florida and how doomed that state was. Florida is now way down the list compared to other states. There is a repeating pattern of rise and fall within parts of the country. it’s not a unified event. We have 25 states with heard immunity above 30% and medical treatment improves with each day going forward. A lot has changed since March and we shouldn’t view it as if the same conditions existed. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/221 "2020-12-08T07:56:52Z")
I gather from other posts here that Florida is suspected of deliberate under-quoting of its figures. Maybe, maybe not, but what is the pattern if Florida is omitted? The field hospitals in your link are Field Hospitals, essentially segregated beds - not ICU beds. And even if they were, one of the persistent messages we hear is that medical staff are already worked to exhaustion. One state even wanted covid-infected staff to keep working! The lack of specialist trained medical staff is as critical as ICU capacity, and not able to be conjured up by airfreight from elsewhere. And, as you’ve been asked several times, how’s the airlift going in those states that are hitting critical right now? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/222 "2020-12-08T15:34:27Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > And, as you’ve been asked several times, how’s the airlift going in those states that are hitting critical right now? You tell me. You’re asking a non-question. I haven’t seen our airlift system taxed in the slightest in my state. You can literally watch them flying on Flight Aware if you’re bored. And as has been pointed out we sent a hospital ship to NYC. There’s no reason we can do the same with field hospitals. Covid medical treatment generally doesn’t involve surgery. It’s basic care and support with drugs and ventilators if needed. There’s no high-tech magic involved. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/223 "2020-12-08T16:19:35Z")
As it happens, South Dakota has flown out some of their patients. " Some COVID-19 patients flown out of state as S.D. hospital ICU capacity dwindles" > [@](#): > > Some COVID-19 patients flown out of state as S.D. hospital ICU capacity dwindles > South Dakota’s largest hospitals are at or above their capacity to care for critically ill COVID-19 patients, forcing some of the sickest patients to be flown out of state to receive care. > > The strain of a months-long surge in coronavirus cases has reduced hospital capacity to care for those with severe symptoms, making it increasingly uncertain whether the sickest South Dakotans will be able to get treatment in the state, health providers say. Meanwhile, ICU space is quickly evaporating in neighboring states as well. [https://eu.argusleader.com/amp/3834939001](https://eu.argusleader.com/amp/3834939001) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/224 "2020-12-08T19:56:14Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > Who said half the country would get sick? It’s a pandemic. Left to do its own thing with no mitigation efforts there is a good chance the vast majority of Americans would be exposed to the virus (with varying reactions). > [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > If things are as bad as you say, the media has **every incentive** to plaster it all over the place just to hit Trump with it. **But they haven’t.** The first guess is that the situation really isn’t that bad **yet**. It’s bad, and it could get a lot worse, and we must do whatever we can to prevent it. Define “bad” in your view? In the OP I mentioned Vietnam which caused a great outcry at the deaths and, currently, we have 5x as many COVID deaths…in less than one year. Pearl Harbor had 2,300 deaths. 9/11 had ~3,000 deaths. We are doing that daily now. How bad do you need it to be? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555.md?page=12)