# Why hasn't the media rubbed our noses in COVID deaths? It might be the thing that saves us **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [November 27, 2020, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555 "2020-11-27T05:43:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2020, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/41 "2020-11-28T22:48:03Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > That’s all rather silly. “Freedumb from masks” messaging isn’t about fear of libs coming into your home with lock on masks. Are you sure? I mean, maybe not _that_ exact rhetorical scenario I used, but from where I sit it just looks like the bog-standard slippery slope argument that surrendering one freedom equals surrendering them all, which equals literal slavery. “If they can make us do XXX then they can make us do ANYTHING”. It’s absolutely fear-based. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/42 "2020-11-28T22:50:59Z")
@FigNorton > It’s something that makes you feel good about, because you don’t have stupid fears like that other guy, but it isn’t useful for understanding what’s going on. You don’t know me from Eve, so don’t tell me what makes me feel good. It doesn’t matter to me if antimaskers are concerned, afraid, angry, or apathetic. The outcome of their behavior is the same. Shitty people doing shitty things will never make feel good. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2020, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/43 "2020-11-28T22:53:10Z")
Relax. It was a general statement about why “people”, not you specifically, like to ascribe bad or pitiable emotions to the motivations of their opponents. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2020, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/44 "2020-11-28T22:55:21Z")
Since I never attributed fear to anyone’s motivations, you should not have addressed that general statement to me. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2020, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/45 "2020-11-28T22:56:55Z")
Well, sorry. My first paragraph was addressing you directly and the second was meant generally. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/46 "2020-11-28T22:58:44Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Are you sure? I mean, maybe not _that_ exact rhetorical scenario I used, but from where I sit it just looks like the bog-standard slippery slope Yes, I’m sure. Calling a slippery slope argument a fear based argument is pretty much exactly what I meant in my response to Monstro. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2020, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/47 "2020-11-28T23:05:04Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > Yes, I’m sure. Calling a slippery slope argument a fear based argument is pretty much exactly what I meant in my response to Monstro. What is a slippery slope argument based upon if not fear? Whatever is waiting at the bottom of the slope, it ain’t a plate of cookies and a big hug. It’s a thing you fear. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2020, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/48 "2020-11-28T23:07:25Z")
Ok, then everything is based on fear. Always bring an umbrella? Fear. Save a percentage of your income so you can ride out unemployment?. Fear. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/49 "2020-11-28T23:09:24Z")
Apparently some things are also based on purposeful misunderstanding. This is also a very powerful messaging strategy, as you are showing us. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/50 "2020-11-28T23:12:18Z")
No, that’s you. Fear of harm and pursuit of happiness drives us all at the base level. Normally that’s modified by higher emotions and rationality. You want to drop all nuance so things you don’t agree with are “fear based”. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/51 "2020-11-29T00:01:46Z")
Not looking to continue a fight or anything but you made me think of something I wanted to talk about: > [@Slippery slope vs the Ratchet Effect](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/slippery-slope-vs-the-ratchet-effect/926703): > > So, I’m not a fan of “logical fallacies” calls being used as a debate tactic in general. But one that bugs me most is “slippery slope”. I think slippery slopes happen, both for good and ill. I think the studied concept of the Ratchet Effect is kinda an obvious example. Does anyone want to discuss how they’re same/different concepts? Or other related things. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/52 "2020-11-29T02:31:00Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > My grandfather died of pneumonia when he was 94 and they had no problem listing pneumonia as the cause of death. There’s no reason COVID should be any different. > > We don’t have a problem determining COVID as cause of death. We have a problem with a political faction full of people who emphatically don’t want COVID listed as a cause of death, ever. You seem really sure that this is always cut and dried. There seems to be a whole lot of reason to believe it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/53 "2020-11-29T14:24:25Z")
Again, just zero out all the deaths of people over 75. We still have 100k dead. The only reason that number isn’t devastating is some weird psychological quirk that makes it look small next to 250k. When we are at 500k dead, will the 250k under 75 will also be treated as insignificant, so long as “most” of the dead are still old? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/54 "2020-11-29T16:54:56Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I suppose that there is among some people a sense of _“how come we are **not** getting from across the country the same sort of alarmed pulling-our-hair out OMG WE’RE DOOMED, DOOMED I TELL YOU reporting that we were getting out of NYC in March/April??”_ We’re not getting the alarms of NYC in March because people aren’t dying at the rate they were in NYC in March. Yes it’s spooled up to the predicted second wave but it’s still nowhere near the localized disaster of NYC. What people HAVE experienced since March is unemployment, depression, delayed medical care, loss of education, suicide… These are not trivial matters and are not sustainable in a binary system of deaths versus social collapse. There has to be balance between both sides of the pandemic. IMO rubbing people’s noses in it will at some point create the opposite effect. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/55 "2020-11-29T17:34:07Z")
At Thanksgiving my brother, an anti-masker and anti-vaxxer was going off on the big family Zoom call about how vulnerable people need to either hide away or die and the rest of us need to go on with life. He then tried to explain that he doesn’t mean to dismiss my parents’ concerns. My mother told him that she was not an idiot. She understands what he means is that he’s prepared to sacrifice a few years of my father’s life so he can “get on with life”. My father has serious respiratory issues. He managed bro restrain himself for one hour and twenty minutes before dropping this steaming turd into the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/56 "2020-11-29T18:06:15Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > At Thanksgiving my brother, an anti-masker and anti-vaxxer was going off on the big family Zoom call about how vulnerable people need to either hide away or die and the rest of us need to go on with life. He then tried to explain that he doesn’t mean to dismiss my parents’ concerns. My mother told him that she was not an idiot. She understands what he means is that he’s prepared to sacrifice a few years of my father’s life so he can “get on with life”. My father has serious respiratory issues. No guess about what stance your mother would take on it, but I wonder if your father expects his entire community to stop down their lives because of his respiratory issues. Or even his son. You know, some of this stuff might cut both ways, a lot more so than many people have stopped to think about. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/57 "2020-11-29T19:48:04Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > No guess about what stance your mother would take on it, but I wonder if your father expects his entire community to stop down their lives I will gladly stop going to bars, restaurants, movie theaters, and house parties if it means that hundreds of thousands of people–teachers, doctors, nurses, bus drivers, college students, AND old folks–get to live and live _well_. If someone expects me to literally stop living just so a 75-year-old person can fart around another day, they are sadly mistaken. I’m not dying for anyone. But I will shop online and order takeout. I will wear a mask when I know I’ll be in close proximity to people. These measures don’t deprive me of life. They make me appreciative of life. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/58 "2020-11-29T21:37:19Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > You seem really sure that this is always cut and dried. There seems to be a whole lot of reason to believe it’s not. There are a lot of _people_ who believe it’s not. That’s not the same thing as a _reason_ it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/59 "2020-11-30T05:50:07Z")
My understanding is that assigning a cause of death often requires much in the way of judgment and perhaps some in the way of probabilities, and that’s if it gets to be carefully done at all. Someone here on this board wrote a detailed and very helpful post explaining what the process is often like. Your understanding that it’s sort of self-evidently binary does not seem to comport with those opinions. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555/60 "2020-11-30T12:04:52Z")
What about the 50k deaths of people under 65? It seems to me that that number alone would be enough from radical action. That’s an absolutely shocking number. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-media-rubbed-our-noses-in-covid-deaths-it-might-be-the-thing-that-saves-us/926555.md?page=4)