# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 102
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2021 "2012-03-27T02:10:04Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > OK. She was wrong. Zimmerman did not say Martin had a gun. > > But can we at least all agree that this is what he was intimating? Why must everything be an occasion to score points? Yes. That’s clearly what he was suggesting. But again, what he said doesn’t make him a liar. Martin’s hand could absolutely been near his waistband, albeit for some innocuous reason, and Zimmerman accurately reported this to the dispatcher. She brought the fact up to show Zimmerman was a liar, since Martin was unarmed, when in fact this shows no such thing. And… The drug thing? I am waiting for the tox screen. Where did she get the information that Martin was clean? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2022 "2012-03-27T02:12:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why did you announce that the drugged out thing turned out not to be true? My bad, **Bricker**. You know, I just figured that since I have no reason to believe the kid was “drugged out”, and no drug paraphenalia was found on his body, then he wasn’t “drugged out”. If the tox data comes back and shows the kid was high as a kite, I’ll eat those words. Folks in this thread keep talking about Zimmerman being injured, in the absence of medical reports. How about you correct them for treating things as fact when they haven’t been verified by a professional? > [@](#): > > Zimmerman did not say that Martin had a weapon: What do you think he’s alluding to when he said Martin was holding his hand in his waistband? Do you think he was making an idle non sequiter? I mean, as much I’d like to think “And he’s a black male” is a non sequiter, we all know that it wasn’t. He was explaining why the guy merited immediate attention from law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2023 "2012-03-27T02:21:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > She brought the fact up to show Zimmerman was a liar, since Martin was unarmed, when in fact this shows no such thing. And now you’re either lying or deliberately being retarded. I never said Zimmerman was being a liar because he implied that Martin was armed threat. I brought up it to show that he was _wrong_ and therefore is not a credible authority regarding the kid’s behavior or actual threat level. Like **monstro** , I’ve had my fill of nonsensical sniping. Have at it by yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2024 "2012-03-27T02:42:22Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > What did she make up?! > > No, Zimmerman did not say “HE HAS A GUN!!” But if he didn’t think the kid had a gun, why would he say he’s got his hand in his waistband? Why would he mention that he’s got something in his hand in that scared, pissing-his-pants kind of way? Are you kidding me? He says “He’s got his hand in his waistband” in the same tone of voice he says “He’s got a button on his shirt”. > [@monstro](#): > > It is the only REASONABLE interpretation of what he said. Only someone who is arguing for the sake of arguing would accuse someone of making shit up when they’re only using common sense. We’re eleventy thousand posts deep with this thing, chewing and stewing over a million permutations of the same scenario, and yet you are the only one breaking your back on this point. So let me get this straight. Zimmerman explicitly states details such as Martin having a button on his shirt, but the fact that he is armed wasn’t worth a direct mention? You were issued with a different version of common sense than me. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2025 "2012-03-27T02:44:58Z")
> [@Terraplane](#): > > He spent a lot of his time being suspicious of black kids. [Link](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/25/1077587/-7-to-9-Year-Old-Looked-Suspicious-Enough-to-Zimmerman-to-Call-911). And hispanics can be plenty racist! Hope this helps. Yeah, you’re going to have to do better than a daily kos blog linked to an Occupy Syndey page. > [@Terraplane](#): > > Yet the guy who was paranoid about black kids shooting a black kid to death seems perfectly reasonable? Nah, this particular black kid hated white people. Plus, I think he had something against Laotians. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2026 "2012-03-27T03:07:24Z")
Given that the people defending Zimmerman seem to be arguing that he was not being aggressive in stopping and questioning Martin, would they support armed citizens from a group like the Black Panthers patroling white neighborhoods in Florida and questioning passersby? This is an honest question. It seems to me that it is the natural outcome of SYG laws. If people who don’t see anything wrong with Zimmerman’s actions, but are still opposed to my proposal, could you explain why? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2027 "2012-03-27T03:14:17Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Given that the people defending Zimmerman seem to be arguing that he was not being aggressive in stopping and questioning Martin, would they support armed citizens from a group like the Black Panthers patroling white neighborhoods in Florida and questioning passersby? > > This is an honest question. It seems to me that it is the natural outcome of SYG laws. If people who don’t see anything wrong with Zimmerman’s actions, but are still opposed to my proposal, could you explain why? Ah yes, because those of us defending Zimmerman are all just terrified of black people. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2028 "2012-03-27T03:17:20Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Given that the people defending Zimmerman seem to be arguing that he was not being aggressive in stopping and questioning Martin, would they support armed citizens from a group like the Black Panthers patroling white neighborhoods in Florida and questioning passersby? > > This is an honest question. It seems to me that it is the natural outcome of SYG laws. If people who don’t see anything wrong with Zimmerman’s actions, but are still opposed to my proposal, could you explain why? No. Because I can’t tell how you got from “not aggressive” to “nothing wrong.” My positions that I have not heard enough to create probable cause that Zimmerman is guilty of a crime. How you extrapolate from that to approval of his tactics, I have no idea. So if you’re asking me if I apply the same standard to Blank Panthers toting guns and patrolling white neighborhoods, the answer is yes: nothing about that makes me believe that there is probable cause to find a crime in that description. Or are you unable to discern a difference between “see nothing wrong” and “think it’s illegal?” ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2029 "2012-03-27T03:21:31Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Given that the people defending Zimmerman seem to be arguing that he was not being aggressive in stopping and questioning Martin, would they support armed citizens from a group like the Black Panthers patroling white neighborhoods in Florida and questioning passersby? > > This is an honest question. It seems to me that it is the natural outcome of SYG laws. If people who don’t see anything wrong with Zimmerman’s actions, but are still opposed to my proposal, could you explain why? How about having the Black Panthers patrolling mixed neighborhoods and stopping white people in the neighborhood on legit business or visiting friends? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2030 "2012-03-27T03:35:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. > > Because I can’t tell how you got from “not aggressive” to “nothing wrong.” > > My positions that I have not heard enough to create probable cause that Zimmerman is guilty of a crime. How you extrapolate from that to approval of his tactics, I have no idea. > > So if you’re asking me if I apply the same standard to Blank Panthers toting guns and patrolling white neighborhoods, the answer is yes: nothing about that makes me believe that there is probable cause to find a crime in that description. > > Or are you unable to discern a difference between “see nothing wrong” and “think it’s illegal?” I can discern a difference between bending over backwards to put one person’s actions in the best possible light, but being uncomfortable with a minority doing the same thing. You said in post 1538 > [@](#): > > No. Because as an American citizen, I have the right to approach you on the street and ask you questions, without any particular legal authority. As long as you are free to disregard my questions, I have not infringed on any of your rights. So I guess you wouldn’t have a problem with the armed Black Panthers stopping citizens and asking questions? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2031 "2012-03-27T03:36:55Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > My bad, **Bricker**. You know, I just figured that since I have no reason to believe the kid was “drugged out”, and no drug paraphenalia was found on his body, then he wasn’t “drugged out”. If the tox data comes back and shows the kid was high as a kite, I’ll eat those words. > > Folks in this thread keep talking about Zimmerman being injured, in the absence of medical reports. How about you correct them for treating things as fact when they haven’t been verified by a professional? Criminy, I’ll have half the posts in this thread. I assume that when someone says that Martin’s girlfriend says she heard Martin say he was being followed, even though they should qualify it as totem-pole hearsay from Martin’s family’s lawyer, they really meant to add that qualification each time, but assume its obvious. In other words, if there is a source for a claim, I have about given up on demanding that people say, “According to the Martin family lawyer’s account of the girlfriend’s account of the phone call…” By the same token, Zimmerman’s lawyer is the source for the Zimmerman injury. It is, of course, nowhere near a factually solid claim, but at least there is some reason beyond imagination to say that Zimmerman was injured. My own feeling, of course, is that I have no idea if he was injured or not. In contrast, there is no source for the definitive claim that Zimmerman was wrong when he said Martin looked drugged out. The mere fact that no drug paraphernalia was on his body doesn’t in the least compel the conclusion. Now, the same argument would apply to anyone that said Martin definitively was involved with drugs. No reliable evidence indicates that is true. I don’t think Zimmerman’s comment means a damn thing, and I don’t regard these reports about high school discipline as meaning anything. In short, there is no evidence in either direction, and no one can make any definitive statement either way. As to Martin’s phoe call and Zimmerman’s injury, they both have sources that are making direct claims — still unproven, but at least something to say, “According to lawyer so-and-so…” > [@](#): > > What do you think he’s alluding to when he said Martin was holding his hand in his waistband? Do you think he was making an idle non sequiter? I mean, as much I’d like to think “And he’s a black male” is a non sequiter, we all know that it wasn’t. He was explaining why the guy merited immediate attention from law enforcement. Agreed on the waistband – Zimmerman was suggesting the possibility of a weapon. But again, he may have been accurately reporting where Martin’s hand was. That makes him mistaken about the conclusion, but not a liar. As to the black male comment… Zimmerman could simply have been providing a description. Any bolo broadcast starts out with a mention of race. Or he could have been implying that the fact that Martin was a blck male was another indicia of dangerousness. I don’t know. Neither do you. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2032 "2012-03-27T03:39:43Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > So I guess you wouldn’t have a problem with the armed Black Panthers stopping citizens and asking questions? You seriously cannot distinguish between “someone has a right to do it” and “I wouldn’t have a problem with them doing it”? You have the right to stand in the middle of the sidewalk on a busy street and cuss out every passerby in strongest terms. I would have a problem with you doing it. But I would still think you have the right to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2033 "2012-03-27T03:41:05Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > And now you’re either lying or deliberately being retarded. I never said Zimmerman was being a liar because he implied that Martin was armed threat. I brought up it to show that he was _wrong_ and therefore is not a credible authority regarding the kid’s behavior or actual threat level. > > Like **monstro** , I’ve had my fill of nonsensical sniping. Have at it by yourselves. But he wasn’t wrong, that you know of. Martin’s hands could have been near his waistband. If so, then he scrupulously reported only the actual facts as he saw them, with no embellishments, making him very credible indeed. See the problem? In fact, as between you and Zimmerman, I can find more incorrect claims of fact made by you in this thread than we know of from Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2034 "2012-03-27T03:42:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I wouldn’t get too exercised about body position. He can stagger in any direction and fall in any manner and Zimmerman can add to that by pushing him. All that’s relevant is that it was consistent with Zimmerman’s story. So what is important is entry wound angle, direction, and distance. A. “stagger”? How does he “stagger” when the position he was in, according to the “Zimmerman had to defend himself” story, is on top of zimmerman, who was on his back on the ground. This means that he was on his knees with his legs spread widely apart. If he was shot in the chest from that position, do you think it’s believable that he would remain alive long enough, not to mention remain strong long enough to maneuver himself up and on to his feet? Where his body landed and the blood spatter and staining are all evidence of what happened. B. If he’s staggering from a gunshot wound to the chest and Zimmerman is on his feet as well and pushes him…Zimmerman’s self-defense argument gets shot all to hell as far as I’m concerned. (No pun intended) > [@RickJay](#): > > I don’t think it’s reasonable to really think anything at all of a person walking down the street. What sort of person would be suspicious of a guy walking down the street for anything? A paranoid lunatic, perhaps. > [@treis](#): > > Some people are the suspicious types, and some aren’t. Indeed: Zimmerman was an unreasonably suspicious type, elevating his suspicion to deadly paranoia. > [@](#): > > He saw someone suspicious run away OH! You mean Martin was suspicious! What exactly was so suspicious about Martin? > [@](#): > > paranoid racist that decided this was the time he was gonna bag him a darky. I don’t think that he was a racist interested in bagging him a darky. I do think he was a paranoid, delusional wannabe who lost all perspective in his unhealthy desire to be a hero, sacrificing an innocent kid in his zeal to make that happen. > [@treis](#): > > Are you kidding me? He says “He’s got his hand in his waistband” in the same tone of voice he says “He’s got a button on his shirt”. He said everything in exactly the same tone until he thought Martin was “getting away” by “oh shit!” running… which is the only time in the conversation that Zimmerman shows any kind of distress, excitement, or concern, when he thinks Martin is “getting away”. By the way, if Zimmerman thought he Martin was so scary coming _towards_ him…why was he so concerned that Martin was _NOT_ coming towards him? Why did he care if Martin was running? If Martin wasn’t running _towards_ Zimmerman, what was the problem at all? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2035 "2012-03-27T03:43:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I also will point out that if Martin was afraid of Zimmerman and truly minding his own business, why didn’t he call the Police?😕 I’m still wondering why he didn’t call his father. His father was a lot closer than the police. For that matter, did they every find Martin’s phone? I was reading that the grand jury will convene on April 10th. It is going to be a long couple of weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2036 "2012-03-27T03:44:37Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I can discern a difference between bending over backwards to put one person’s actions in the best possible light, but being uncomfortable with a minority doing the same thing. > > You said in post 1538 > > So I guess you wouldn’t have a problem with the armed Black Panthers stopping citizens and asking questions? As American citizens, the Panthers have the right to approach anyone on the street and ask them questions. As long as the person they approach is free to disregard their inquires and go about their business, they have not infringed on any rights. Which is what I said about Zimmerman. Same answer. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2037 "2012-03-27T03:54:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > By the same token, Zimmerman’s lawyer is the source for the Zimmerman injury. It is, of course, nowhere near a factually solid claim, but at least there is some reason beyond imagination to say that Zimmerman was injured. My own feeling, of course, is that I have no idea if he was injured or not. This information isn’t from Zimmerman’s lawyer. It was first reported by the Orlando Sentinel and appears to have been leaked by someone in the police department. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2038 "2012-03-27T03:54:33Z")
BTW, I noticed it took less than 15 days to pass 2000 posts is that anywhere close to a record? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2039 "2012-03-27T03:56:18Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > By the way, if Zimmerman thought he Martin was so scary coming _towards_ him…why was he so concerned that Martin was _NOT_ coming towards him? Why did he care if Martin was running? If Martin wasn’t running _towards_ Zimmerman, what was the problem at all? Zimmerman doesn’t show any indication of being scared of Martin. He’s upset that Martin is running because he thinks he is a thief that will get away. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2040 "2012-03-27T04:06:50Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > What do you think he’s alluding to when he said Martin was holding his hand in his waistband? Do you think he was making an idle non sequiter? I mean, as much I’d like to think “And he’s a black male” is a non sequiter, we all know that it wasn’t. He was explaining why the guy merited immediate attention from law enforcement. Read the transcript again carefully , from the beginning. The question of race is brought up originally by the dispatcher, not Zimmerman. > [@](#): > > Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic? > Zimmerman: He looks black. Notice Zimmerman’s exact words. He _looks_ black. Zimmerman’s not sure at this point; Martin is too far away. A little later we get: > [@](#): > > Zimmerman: Yeah, now he’s coming towards me. > Dispatcher: OK. > Zimmerman: He’s got his hand in his waistband. And he’s a black male. So now Martin is close enough for Zimmerman to be _sure_ that he is black, and passes that info to the dispatcher. Info the Dispatcher requested. I suppose Zimmerman should have said, “You know, I’ve been reading some stuff on the [internet](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=644144), and while I believe in gender, I don’t believe in race.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=101) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=103)