# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 103
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2041 "2012-03-27T04:09:41Z")
> [@treis](#): > > This information isn’t from Zimmerman’s lawyer. It was first reported by the Orlando Sentinel and appears to have been leaked by someone in the police department. It could be, but it could also be the DA’s office. I wouldn’t be surprised if we aren’t in the high double, low triple digits concerning the number of people who might have access to these records. I doubt that Seminole county has real sophisticated IT people. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2042 "2012-03-27T04:18:36Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You seriously cannot distinguish between “someone has a right to do it” and “I wouldn’t have a problem with them doing it”? > > You have the right to stand in the middle of the sidewalk on a busy street and cuss out every passerby in strongest terms. I would have a problem with you doing it. But I would still think you have the right to do it. People have been completely dimissive of the idea that Martin felt intimidated or threatened by Zimmerman’s actions, but when it is suggested that maybe blacks should arm themselves and engage in the same activity, suddenly it is not a good idea. An armed stranger questioning you on the street in threatening. Anyone who says Martin should not have been scared by Zimmerman’s actions should not have a problem with others replicating that behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2043 "2012-03-27T04:23:15Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > People have been completely dimissive of the idea that Martin felt intimidated or threatened by Zimmerman’s actions, but when it is suggested that maybe blacks should arm themselves and engage in the same activity, suddenly it is not a good idea. I’m all for armed Neighborhood Watch, black or white. > [@](#): > > An armed stranger questioning you on the street in threatening. Anyone who says Martin should not have been scared by Zimmerman’s actions should not have a problem with others replicating that behavior. As I said before, it is quite possible that both Martin and Zimmerman’s behavior falls under “self-defense” under Florida statutes. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2044 "2012-03-27T04:31:28Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > BTW, I noticed it took less than 15 days to pass 2000 posts is that anywhere close to a record? Just about 650 posts more, to pass that nearby Great On-Going Dating Thread! ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2045 "2012-03-27T04:55:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > No surprise here. The family is ready to cash in on all the hysteria. Interting that the applications were last week. Not long after the shooting and they were already seeing money potentials. > [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t see anything nefarious about this. Neither do I, especially with all the [Trayvon-inspired artwork](http://www.thecomplexmedia.com/blog/2012/03/creative-feature-art-for-trayvon/trayvon-martin-digital-illustration_web/) popping up. If some opportunist gets the bright idea to make a quick buck by manufacturing hoodies with Trayvon’s name on them, the Martin family are now in a legal position to put a stop to it. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2046 "2012-03-27T05:23:46Z")
> [@Terraplane](#): > > He spent a lot of his time being suspicious of black kids. [Link](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/25/1077587/-7-to-9-Year-Old-Looked-Suspicious-Enough-to-Zimmerman-to-Call-911). And hispanics can be plenty racist! Hope this helps. See, now this is the problem with stories like this. Someone reports something and then someone else repeats it, and it becomes fact. I found a better link for this, which links to a pdf of the police incident reports. Wanna know why the racist bastard called the cops on this kid? > [@](#): > > COMPL ADVD S43 IS WALKING ALONE & IS NOT SUPERVISED ON BUSY STREET // COMPL CONCERNED FOR WELL BEING Yeah. That racist asshole called the cops because he saw a kid on a busy street alone and was concerned for his welfare. Page 37 of this pdf: [http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/911CallHistory.pdf](http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/911CallHistory.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2047 "2012-03-27T05:44:23Z")
More slowly coming out about Trayvon. He’s not quite the innocent skittles angel his family claims. He had multiple suspensions. Maybe Zimmerman was right? This kid may have been checking out the neighborhood for a break in. [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html) > [@](#): > > Trayvon Martin was suspended from school in October in an incident in which he was found in possession of women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that a schools security staffer described as a “burglary tool,” The Miami Herald has learned. > [@](#): > > According to the report, on Oct. 21 staffers monitoring a security camera at Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School spotted Trayvon and two other students writing “W.T.F.,” an acronym for “What the f—,” on a hallway locker, according to schools police. The security employee, who knew Trayvon, confronted the teen and looked through his bag for the graffiti marker. > > Trayvon’s backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described the screwdriver as a burglary tool. [http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/26/3515140/multiple-suspensions-paint-complicated.html](http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/26/3515140/multiple-suspensions-paint-complicated.html) ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2048 "2012-03-27T05:56:04Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Zimmerman doesn’t show any indication of being scared of Martin. He’s upset that Martin is running because he thinks he is a thief that will get away. > [@aceplace57](#): > > More slowly coming out about Trayvon. He’s not quite the innocent skittles angel his family claims. He had multiple suspensions. Maybe Zimmerman was right? This kid may have been checking out the neighborhood for a break in. > [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html) > > [http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/26/3515140/multiple-suspensions-paint-complicated.html](http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/26/3515140/multiple-suspensions-paint-complicated.html) Since when is a screwdriver burglary tool? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2049 "2012-03-27T06:10:03Z")
When its in a backpack with 12 pieces of jewelry. A screwdriver is all you need to pop open a door. A lot of door jams can be bent/twisted over with a screwdriver or pry bar. Then the bolt on the lock slips loose from the plate. My carpenter just reinforced the lock on my storage building by putting blocking between the studs. So you can’t do that as easily. Now, I have two studs nailed together with the blocking. It would be a lot harder to pry that stud over. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2050 "2012-03-27T06:13:25Z")
Was it a sharpened screwdriver? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2051 "2012-03-27T06:13:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > True. But many of us had this question on our minds- "Why the hell would Martin attack this dude for no reason? Make no sense. " But now some will be thing “Ah the kid was out looking for house to break into, all hopped up on drugs, then this Law-abding pillar of the community spoiled his little criminal plan so the kid attacked him!” And, if the ME’s report comes back with Martin testing positive…\* game over man, game over. \* > . Do you know how many teenagers would test positive for a drug like marijuana? I don’t think I’ve ever known anyone who had not tried it(or would admit they had not), and the rest were on a spectrum from occasional to daily smoker. Then you had the harder drugs like cocaine or heroin which were not unheard of especially as people got older. Then there were research chemicals off the internet, whatever chem du jour in a bag that hadn’t been scheduled yet. THEN there were the teens who had hookups for diet pills/stimulants purchased in Mexico and used as study aids. A teen testing positive for drugs proves…well that they aren’t home schooled I guess. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2052 "2012-03-27T06:20:03Z")
“Burglary Tools” is very much a context type term. Any homeowner has a toolkit with hammers, screwdrivers and pry bars for home repairs. That’s totally legal. If those same items are found with stolen items, a knit mask, gloves, a knife, or a gun then they could be considered burglary tools. Its a judgement call on the cops and prosecutors part. They have to prove your intent to use those tools for a crime. They can actually charge you with possession of burglary tools. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2053 "2012-03-27T06:35:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > “Burglary Tools” is very much a context type term. Any homeowner has a toolkit with hammers, screwdrivers and pry bars for home repairs. That’s totally legal. > > If those same items are found with stolen items, a knit mask, gloves, a knife, or a gun then they could be considered burglary tools. Its a judgement call on the cops and prosecutors part. They have to prove your intent to use those tools for a crime. They can actually charge you with possession of burglary tools. Well, no one charged Trayvon with a crime, the jewelry was not identified as being stolen, and there were no other “burglary tools”. The only one who called it that was someone from the school. So I call bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2054 "2012-03-27T12:28:21Z")
Another article in the Orlando Sentinel today. [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326\_1\_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager) I identified what appears to me two new pieces of information. > [@](#): > > He said he was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his gated community. > [@](#): > > Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest at very close range, according to authorities. Based on the map that the Sentinel published which showed the Zimmerman house, that would indicate Zimmerman was driving North on Retreat View Circle toward the North gate when he saw Martin. The second quote appears to be an answer to my question about gun shot residue. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2055 "2012-03-27T12:39:54Z")
> [@treis](#): > > (1) Martin doesn’t appear to be on the phone when Martin calls the cops. Zimmerman mentions details such as him having a button on his shirt, but says nothing about a cell phone. This is a fact which is easily determined by reviewing the phone records to see if the calls overlap. I think you will be proven wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2056 "2012-03-27T13:02:04Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Do you know how many teenagers would test positive for a drug like marijuana? I don’t think I’ve ever known anyone who had not tried it(or would admit they had not), and the rest were on a spectrum from occasional to daily smoker. Then you had the harder drugs like cocaine or heroin which were not unheard of especially as people got older. Then there were research chemicals off the internet, whatever chem du jour in a bag that hadn’t been scheduled yet. THEN there were the teens who had hookups for diet pills/stimulants purchased in Mexico and used as study aids. > > A teen testing positive for drugs proves…well that they aren’t home schooled I guess. 🙂 _Had experimented with_ is different than _currently under the influence._ ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2057 "2012-03-27T13:14:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > _Had experimented with_ is different than _currently under the influence._ Marijuana can be detected in hair up to 90 days post use, and I think thats only because they only look at the past 90 days of hair growth. For blood and urine it depends what your use was like and your metabolism but its anywhere from days to a month. This is the longest detection period of common drugs I believe. My point being that having drugs detectable doesn’t mean you were currently intoxicated. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2058 "2012-03-27T13:16:06Z")
At one point, Martin is far enough away that Zimmerman can’t tell for sure that Martin’s black but he can tell that he’s on drugs. That is dubious. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2059 "2012-03-27T14:26:33Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Since when is a screwdriver burglary tool? A medium size (around 12" long) flat blade screwdriver is suitable for forcing entry to school lockers. Don’t ask how I know. He is lucky the school didn’t consider it a dangerous weapon instead. Regardless of the intended purpose, there is no reason to have it in your book bag at school. Though I don’t see the relevance any of this has to the case, other than to tarnish the angelic image that was initially portrayed of Martin. Sad really. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2060 "2012-03-27T14:31:56Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Well, no one charged Trayvon with a crime, the jewelry was not identified as being stolen, and there were no other “burglary tools”. The only one who called it that was someone from the school. > > So I call bullshit. I call objection, relevance. Why are we even discussing this burglary tool garbage? What possible relevance does it have to the events of the night in question? Zero. None. Zip. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=102) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=104)