# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 105
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2081 "2012-03-27T16:05:34Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > And now you’re either lying or deliberately being retarded. This isn’t the forum for insults, **you with the face**. Don’t make a post like this in this topic or forum again. Just a note, not a warning. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2082 "2012-03-27T16:06:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Cite? Any statements other than the shooter’s? Nope. But that is the consensus as of now, we have nothing to support the other side. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2083 "2012-03-27T16:07:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Details are scarce, but that seems to be the consensus, based upon the statements. ..of the guy who may be charged with homocide. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2084 "2012-03-27T16:07:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There is no evidence at all to support this version of events. I merely suggest it as a more likely alternative than Martin casing the neighborhood for jewelry. There’s no evidence of either, but I don’t see you jumping all over DrDeth’s junk for speculating. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2085 "2012-03-27T16:09:38Z")
Let’s calm down and take the outrage down a notch, everyone. This was my third time coming in here to give out warnings or notes. From here on I’m going to be giving out warnings if anyone gets too insulting or makes a post better suited for the Pit, so please think before you post and take an extra second to cool off if you need to. At this point, nobody participating in this thread shouldn’t have seen the last three step-ins. Remember to use the Pit if you really want to say how you feel toward another poster in here (as opposed to saying it in here). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2086 "2012-03-27T16:09:44Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I merely suggest it as a more likely alternative than Martin casing the neighborhood for jewelry. There’s no evidence of either, but I don’t see you jumping all over DrDeth’s junk for speculating. Ok, that’s a possible assumption, sure. Nothing supports it, but it’s possible, I suppose. But indeed we do have evidence that Martin jumped Zimmerman. Self-serving evidence, sure. But no evidence that other way. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2087 "2012-03-27T16:10:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How do we know any of this? Is it just Zimmerman’s statement? For example, how do we know his head was pounded into the sidewalk, rather than he slipped and fell? Because we have a witness report saying that’s what happened, and the physical evidence indicates that Zimmerman was in a fight? Oh, and also because we don’t desperately search for every possible explanation that makes Zimmerman look guilty and Martin look innocent. Objectivity FTW! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2088 "2012-03-27T16:14:01Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I merely suggest it as a more likely alternative than Martin casing the neighborhood for jewelry. There’s no evidence of either, but I don’t see you jumping all over DrDeth’s junk for speculating. Phrase it, instead of as statement of fact, as a statement of possibility unsupported by evidence and I won’t “jump all over it”. See, there is evidence that Martin jumped Zimmerman. You may not believe that evidence, but it is evidence nevertheless. There is no evidence whatsoever, believable or not, to support your statements. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2089 "2012-03-27T16:16:41Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Because we have a witness report saying that’s what happened, and the physical evidence indicates that Zimmerman was in a fight? > > Oh, and also because we don’t desperately search for every possible explanation that makes Zimmerman look guilty and Martin look innocent. Objectivity FTW! If I’m suggesting anything, it’s that there’s not enough data in the public sphere to make much of a judgment on anything beyond that there was a physical confrontation between them, and Zimmerman shot Martin. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2090 "2012-03-27T16:21:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If I’m suggesting anything, it’s that there’s not enough data in the public sphere to make much of a judgment on anything beyond that there was a physical confrontation between them, and Zimmerman shot Martin. There’s things we can add to that: (1) Martin easily could have made it home at a casual walking speed while Zimmerman was on the phone. (2) Zimmerman was getting the crap kicked out of him, and had legitimate reason to fear for his life. The thing we don’t know is who confronted who. But it’s clear that both people could have easily avoided it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2091 "2012-03-27T16:25:50Z")
> [@treis](#): > > There’s things we can add to that: > > (1) Martin easily could have made it home at a casual walking speed while Zimmerman was on the phone. > > (2) Zimmerman was getting the crap kicked out of him, and had legitimate reason to fear for his life. > > The thing we don’t know is who confronted who. But it’s clear that both people could have easily avoided it. Neither of those seemed particularly clear to me- for (1) what does “while Zimmerman was on the phone” have to do with Martin getting away? And (2) seems awfully hard to evaluate objectively, especially without medical reports- what makes you say that he “was getting the crap kicked out of him, and had legitimate reason to fear for his life”? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2092 "2012-03-27T16:29:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If I’m suggesting anything, it’s that there’s not enough data in the public sphere to make much of a judgment on anything beyond that there was a physical confrontation between them, and Zimmerman shot Martin. There is more evidence though. We know Zimmerman referred to Martin as a “fucking coon” and we know he thought Martin was an asshole who might get away. We know Zimmerman left the safety of his car to stalk Martin through the rain in the dark with a gun. Omitting these facts is not a fair representation of the factual record. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2093 "2012-03-27T16:29:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Neither of those seemed particularly clear to me- for (1) what does “while Zimmerman was on the phone” have to do with Martin getting away? Because it gives us an indisputable, minimum amount of time between their first encounter and the shooting. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And (2) seems awfully hard to evaluate objectively, especially without medical reports- what makes you say that he “was getting the crap kicked out of him, and had legitimate reason to fear for his life”? It doesn’t seem very hard to evaluate objectively to me. The police found him with a bloody nose, swollen lip, and bleeding from the back of his head. It takes olympic level mental gymnastics or an epic level of willful denial to conclude anything other than Zimmerman got his ass kicked. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2094 "2012-03-27T16:32:28Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > There is more evidence though. We know Zimmerman referred to Martin as a “fucking coon” and we know he thought Martin was an asshole who might get away. We know Zimmerman left the safety of his car to stalk Martin through the rain in the dark with a gun. Omitting these facts is not a fair representation of the factual record. Neither is saying Zimmerman stalked Martin or that he definitively said fucking coon. What you call “stalking” is running for ~20 seconds to see where a suspicious guy ran off to. And I hear “fucking punk”, not “fucking coon”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2095 "2012-03-27T16:33:39Z")
> [@treis](#): > > It doesn’t seem very hard to evaluate objectively to me. The police found him with a bloody nose, swollen lip, and bleeding from the back of his head. It takes olympic level mental gymnastics or an epic level of willful denial to conclude anything other than Zimmerman got his ass kicked. And that necessitates the conclusion “… and had legitimate fear of his life”? If this is the standard, then would you be comfortable with every bar fight ending with the guy who’s getting his ass kicked pulling out a gun and killing his opponent? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2096 "2012-03-27T16:34:07Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > . We know Zimmerman referred to Martin as a “fucking coon” … Very highly debated. In fact we don’t even know who or what Zimmerman was talking about when he muttered a phrase that sounds like that under his breath. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2097 "2012-03-27T16:39:55Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Because it gives us an indisputable, minimum amount of time between their first encounter and the shooting. But you said “casual walking speed”- if Zimmerman saw him and made the phone call, then chased Martin, how does Martin get away at “casual, walking speed”? > [@](#): > > It doesn’t seem very hard to evaluate objectively to me. The police found him with a bloody nose, swollen lip, and bleeding from the back of his head. It takes olympic level mental gymnastics or an epic level of willful denial to conclude anything other than Zimmerman got his ass kicked. I’ve had all these injuries at various times (once altogether, along with jammed, bleeding fingers and a black eye)- and I certainly didn’t “fear for my life”. These are extremely minor injuries, even altogether- when I boxed in college, I sparred once with a talented 11-year old. Two or three decent punches from an 11-year old and my nose was bleeding. My lip could have easily been swollen too- I don’t remember. If that was the extent of his injuries, then no, Zimmerman’s “ass” was not “kicked”, in the sense of a brutal beating. And if that was the extent of his injuries, then he did not have reasonable cause to fear for his life. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2098 "2012-03-27T16:46:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Cite? Any statements other than the shooter’s? There was also a witness who saw Martin assault Zimmerman and the fact that Zimmerman’s injuries are consistent with his story. Some forensic evidence would be helpful here. Was there any of Zimmerman’s blood, tissue or hair on the sidewalk? Was there any bruising on Martins hand? Frankly I’m starting to think if there was any evidence against Zimmerman, they would have thrown Zimmerman under the bus by now. They already threw their own police chief under the bus. Zimmerman is a nobody. Why would they protect him? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2099 "2012-03-27T16:47:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And that necessitates the conclusion “… and had legitimate fear of his life”? If this is the standard, then would you be comfortable with every bar fight ending with the guy who’s getting his ass kicked pulling out a gun and killing his opponent? Yes. It’s a waste of a way to die, and I can generate sympathy for the family and friends. But for the guy that started a fight and got shot? All I’d say to him is, “this is why you don’t start fights”. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But you said “casual walking speed”- if Zimmerman saw him and made the phone call, then chased Martin, how does Martin get away at “casual, walking speed”? Because Martin was a couple hundred feet from his house, and Zimmerman spent the next couple minutes on the phone with the cops. We can be pretty sure Zimmerman wasn’t preventing Martin from going anywhere, because there’s no mention of it on the recording. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If that was the extent of his injuries, then no, Zimmerman’s “ass” was not “kicked”, in the sense of a brutal beating. And if that was the extent of his injuries, then he did not have reasonable cause to fear for his life. I guess I’m not super tough guy. If I see someone bleeding from their nose, with a swollen lip, and bleeding from the back of their skull then I say they got their ass kicked. I mean, what do you want Zimmerman to do? “Gee, he’s smashing my head into the ground, but I haven’t felt a fracture yet. Better wait until I get my ass kicked a little more before pulling my gun”. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2100 "2012-03-27T16:48:11Z")
> [@treis](#): > > What you call “stalking” is running for ~20 seconds to see where a suspicious guy ran off to. You don’t know how long Zimmerman was stalking Martin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=104) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=106)