# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 112
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2221 "2012-03-28T15:42:07Z")
Does anyone know where I can find a copy of the police saying this: Zimmerman said he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck, police said. Read more here: [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/19/2703029/us-department-of-justice-fbi-and.html#disqus\_thread#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/19/2703029/us-department-of-justice-fbi-and.html#disqus_thread#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy) I contacted the author of the piece. He told me he wasn’t at his computer so he couldn’t access his notes to see exactly where and when this came from the police. Does anyone else know where and when the police said this? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2222 "2012-03-28T15:52:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. > > Except for the key difference: everywhere else, self-defense is an affirmative defense, to be offered up at trial. “The accused shot this victim,” says the prosecution to the jury. “Yes,” says the defense, “But my guy was justified; it was self-defense.” > > Here, the claim of self-defense must be overcome by probable cause before an arrest can even be made. The law specifically says that a law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force, but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful. The law further says that the person is “immune from prosecution,” which includes “arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.” > > THAT is why the SYG law makes a difference. It’s still up to the discretion of the police. If I call the cops to report that I shot someone in my bedroom, and they come to find my front door smashed open, a guy in all black with a sledgehammer, and me in my pajamas, they aren’t going to arrest me. Nor will I be charged or have to use an affirmative defense at trial. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2223 "2012-03-28T16:02:20Z")
A few questions: Why not say I’m packing and the police are on their way? How does someone who you’re so afraid of that you won’t give out your address to the dispatcher get near enough to take a swing on you? Why aren’t you fighting back? Concussion symptoms? How do get the gun if he’s sitting on you? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2224 "2012-03-28T16:14:09Z")
And now the police are saying that they recommended filing charges, but the county prosecutor wouldn’t back them up: [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2718130/sanford-cops-wanted-to-charge.html#morer](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2718130/sanford-cops-wanted-to-charge.html#morer) Truth or ass-covering retcon? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2225 "2012-03-28T16:21:32Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > And now the police are saying that they recommended filing charges, but the county prosecutor wouldn’t back them up: [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2718130/sanford-cops-wanted-to-charge.html#morer](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2718130/sanford-cops-wanted-to-charge.html#morer) > > Truth or ass-covering retcon? According to an ABC story, the lead detective filed an affidavit (possibly while going after an arrest warrant?) the same night as the killing saying he didn’t buy Zimmerman’s story. Based on that I would say truth. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2226 "2012-03-28T16:35:01Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Unless Martin was done kicking Zimmerman’s ass when he was shot. > At least one witness puts M and Z apart after the start of the altercation and before the fatal shot. > > Austin Brown, iirc. Since the Orlando Sentinel said: > [@](#): > > Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest from very close range, according to authorities. That doesn’t seem plausible. In any case Austin **McLendon** didn’t actually say that, but I wouldn’t be surprised is you read something that said he did. Go back and read post #1420. I also saw a video interview with McLendon, but I need to find it. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2227 "2012-03-28T17:31:28Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Go back and read post #1420. I also saw a video interview with McLendon, but I need to find it. I found where the video was, but they seem to have taken it down for some reason. [http://www.loop21.com/life/trayvon-martin-witness-fears-his-own-life](http://www.loop21.com/life/trayvon-martin-witness-fears-his-own-life) Here are my comments on the video in post #1446 > [@](#): > > Listen to the interview more carefully. Austin McClendon never said that the person he saw on the ground initially was Martin and he never said he saw two people on the ground. You need to separate what McClendon actually said from what Maurice Garland wrote. > > The most interesting part was where McClendon talked about how dark it was. It would tend to cast some doubt about whether the other witness “John” could tell a red shirt from a gray shirt. I checked and sunset would have been at 6:24 in Sanford that night. I’ll have to check how dark it is in my backyard at 36 minutes after sunset. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2228 "2012-03-28T17:45:26Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > And now the police are saying that they recommended filing charges, but the county prosecutor wouldn’t back them up: [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2718130/sanford-cops-wanted-to-charge.html#morer](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2718130/sanford-cops-wanted-to-charge.html#morer) > > Truth or ass-covering retcon? [ul] [li]Detective: I’ve got a dead guy and a guy that admits shooting him. Let me arrest him.[/li][li]DA: The guy is claiming self-defense and we don’t any evidence to show he’s lying. Come back when you have some evidence.[/li][/ul] Seems like a plausible conversation to me. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2229 "2012-03-28T18:07:32Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > [ul] > [li]Detective: I’ve got a dead guy and a guy that admits shooting him. Let me arrest him.[/li][li]DA: The guy is claiming self-defense and we don’t any evidence to show he’s lying. Come back when you have some evidence.[/li][/ul] > Seems like a plausible conversation to me. Or DA: “You don’t have enough evidence right now, and since it’s a Capital case, I’d have to convene a GJ anyway. Is the guy a flight risk? No? Ok, then just wait until we see that the GJ sez. “ ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2230 "2012-03-28T18:32:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Or DA: “You don’t have enough evidence right now, and since it’s a Capital case, I’d have to convene a GJ anyway. Is the guy a flight risk? No? Ok, then just wait until we see that the GJ sez. “ Yeah that’s fine. It would be weird not to follow procedure though in terms of questioning, crime scene evidence collection, confiscating the weapon for ballistics, and testing for sobriety. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2231 "2012-03-28T18:36:11Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Yeah that’s fine. It would be weird not to follow procedure though in terms of questioning, crime scene evidence collection, confiscating the weapon for ballistics, and testing for sobriety. They questioned him for hours. The stuff you see on the TV show CSI is rarely done IRL, but I have no doubt it was done to a limited extent. Apparently they confiscated the weapon, and there’s no reason to suppose they didn’t test it. They’d need a warrant to do a blood test for sobriety and the on scene investigators did not seem to think it was a issue. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2232 "2012-03-28T18:52:19Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > > > [@Hbns](#): > > > > > > … Gunshot wounds to the chest are rarely immediately incapacitating unless the victim is struck in the spine. It is almost a guarantee that Martin did not die “instantly”. … > > > > Funny that the point of aim when hunting is the chest, entirely because that’s where the heart and lungs are. > > > > How long do you think you’d live without an [aorta](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Aorta_scheme_noTags.svg)? > > > > CMC fnord! > > Like all of the deer I’ve hunted, long enough to take a few steps. To elaborate on this exchange; a couple of years ago I got a new pellet rifle that’s quicker to load and fire than my Crossman 760, and has 50% greater muzzle velocity, to boot. The first living thing I shot at with it was a squirrel at my bird feeder, shooting out the window. I thought I missed, because the squirrel jumped and ran after I shot, exactly the same way that ones I missed jump and run. Later that day, I had reason to go outside and walk on that side of the house. I found a dead squirrel ~10 feet (roughly 10 to 20 times the squirrel’s body length) away from where it was when I took the shot. By then, it was too late to stew the squirrel, but I wanted to see what my new toy had done, so I essentially did an autopsy on that squirrel. There was an entry wound in it’s chest, right where I had aimed, but no blood on the fur around the wound. Inside the squirrel’s chest cavity, I found hamburger where the heart should be. That squirrel lived _without a functioning heart_ long enough to act like a scared but uninjured squirrel, and long enough to convince me that I had missed it entirely. How long can you live without an Aorta? I’d say long enough to act like you still have one and get about 10 feet away from where you lost it. And not even leave a drop of blood to indicate you’d been injured. fnord, to you, too, CMC! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2233 "2012-03-28T19:15:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m going to say no: I can think of at least one scenario where it would be totally ineffective to demand your stuff back, but you lose it anyway. > > In _People v. Thomas_, the California case I mentioned back about ten pages ago, you could probably successfully demand your mouthpiece back, because the police are the custodians. But if a hospital is involved, they are not an agent of the police, and so if they refuse your demand, it doesn’t amount to a seizure. > > This is not an in-depth analysis, mind you. Thanks for your response. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2234 "2012-03-28T19:34:41Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > To elaborate on this exchange; a couple of years ago I got a new pellet rifle that’s quicker to load and fire than my Crossman 760, and has 50% greater muzzle velocity, to boot. The first living thing I shot at with it was a squirrel at my bird feeder, shooting out the window. I thought I missed, because the squirrel jumped and ran after I shot, exactly the same way that ones I missed jump and run. Later that day, I had reason to go outside and walk on that side of the house. I found a dead squirrel ~10 feet (roughly 10 to 20 times the squirrel’s body length) away from where it was when I took the shot. By then, it was too late to stew the squirrel, but I wanted to see what my new toy had done, so I essentially did an autopsy on that squirrel. There was an entry wound in it’s chest, right where I had aimed, but no blood on the fur around the wound. Inside the squirrel’s chest cavity, I found hamburger where the heart should be. That squirrel lived _without a functioning heart_ long enough to act like a scared but uninjured squirrel, and long enough to convince me that I had missed it entirely. > > How long can you live without an Aorta? > > I’d say long enough to act like you still have one and get about 10 feet away from where you lost it. And not even leave a drop of blood to indicate you’d been injured. > > fnord, to you, too, CMC! When I was a kid, my mom was killing chickens in the back yard. She would grab the chicken by the neck and swing it around until the body came off. I was grossed out by the headless chicken running around. In my book, running around without a head is more impressive than running around without a heart. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2235 "2012-03-28T20:51:05Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > From the 911 call: > > “Are you following him?” > > “Yes.” What didn’t you understand about my post? The word “follow” can mean anything from being Martin’s shadow to keeping an eye on him from a distance. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2236 "2012-03-28T20:53:25Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > To elaborate on this exchange; a couple of years ago I got a new pellet rifle that’s quicker to load and fire than my Crossman 760, and has 50% greater muzzle velocity, to boot. The first living thing I shot at with it was a squirrel at my bird feeder, shooting out the window. I thought I missed, because the squirrel jumped and ran after I shot, exactly the same way that ones I missed jump and run. Later that day, I had reason to go outside and walk on that side of the house. I found a dead squirrel ~10 feet (roughly 10 to 20 times the squirrel’s body length) away from where it was when I took the shot. By then, it was too late to stew the squirrel, but I wanted to see what my new toy had done, so I essentially did an autopsy on that squirrel. There was an entry wound in it’s chest, right where I had aimed, but no blood on the fur around the wound. Inside the squirrel’s chest cavity, I found hamburger where the heart should be. That squirrel lived _without a functioning heart_ long enough to act like a scared but uninjured squirrel, and long enough to convince me that I had missed it entirely. > > How long can you live without an Aorta? > > I’d say long enough to act like you still have one and get about 10 feet away from where you lost it. And not even leave a drop of blood to indicate you’d been injured. Could go either way- as I noted in the Pit thread, I have watched lots of videos featuring the death of actual human beings being shot, and it is surprising how much like marionettes whose strings have been cut they often look. Note that this does not mean they are dead, only that they have collapsed. But if the topic is of that much interest to you, the internet is filled with tons of examples of people being shot, going back to the second world war. Sometimes they stay erect, and lots of times they collapse immediately. Seems there needs to be an examination of all the circumstances here to establish what might have happened either way because it could go a long way towards proving or disproving Zimmerman’s version of events. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2237 "2012-03-28T20:56:15Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > When I was a kid, my mom was killing chickens in the back yard. She would grab the chicken by the neck and swing it around until the body came off. I was grossed out by the headless chicken running around. In my book, running around without a head is more impressive than running around without a heart. Are you hip to [Mike the Headless Chicken](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken)? He lived for 18 MONTHS after having his head chopped off!! True story. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2238 "2012-03-28T20:56:56Z")
Two questions: Is it known whether there were two gunshots or one? Did Martin allegedly pound Zimmerman’s head on pavement or grass? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2239 "2012-03-28T20:57:54Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Seems there needs to be an examination of all the circumstances here to establish what might have happened either way because it could go a long way towards proving or disproving Zimmerman’s version of events. Yes, we call those things ‘a Grand Jury hearing”. One is scheduled for April 10th, and has been so for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2240 "2012-03-28T21:06:40Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > A few questions: Why not say I’m packing and the police are on their way? How does someone who you’re so afraid of that you won’t give out your address to the dispatcher get near enough to take a swing on you? Walk quietly up to someone who has their back turned to you. > [@enomaj](#): > > Why aren’t you fighting back? Concussion symptoms? Yes, It’s pretty easy to knock someone out on the first blow or knock them to the ground in a daze. I’ve been nearly knocked out with just body contact playing sports. > [@enomaj](#): > > How do get the gun if he’s sitting on you? Depends on the holster used. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=111) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=113)