# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 129
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2561 "2012-03-30T19:47:46Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If EMT tells the cops something important about the subject, is it the cop’s duty to note that? Yes or no. No. There are some things for which the answer would be yes, but not all things. Medically-related important things would be ‘no.’ So overall, the answer is no. ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2562 "2012-03-30T19:51:28Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If EMT tells the cops something important about the subject, is it the cop’s duty to note that? Yes or no. No. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2563 "2012-03-30T19:52:11Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If EMT tells the cops something important about the subject, is it the cop’s duty to note that? Yes or no. No. The police can assume that another professional badged public service dept of the same city will handle _their_ job and the police will have access to their reports. You batting average continues the same, note. You know, you can just say _“I don’t think Zimmerman was all that badly injured at all, he didn’t fear for his life, thus he had no reason to use deadly force”._ Perfectly fine _opinion_. Trying to read something into what’s missing when you have no idea of what legally should be/ can be/ or needs to be there is not. Give it up. The fact that the police didn’t say anything about the injuries is not meaningful. (damn it, bricker beat me to it. Not only smart, but _fast._ Darn him to heck) ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2564 "2012-03-30T19:55:57Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > Great, if there were wounds, they should be documented in the SFD report since they were the folks who rendered treatment to Zimmerman i.e., they were the “provider” per statute. Again, those aren’t released yet. HIPAA protects them, but there may be other reasons we haven’t seen them yet–for instance this matter is still being investigated. What’s your point? That it is speculation? Well sure, this is “IN My Humble Opinion” after all, and INMHO the beatdown Zimmerman’s supporters claim he got does not seem to jibe with the evidence. > [@](#): > > And while we’re at it, so many of you are saying the police report is faked to support Zimmerman or includes both initial and supplemental information and may not be complete. You can’t have it both ways. You suspect the police report? Then quit using it to show a lack of documentation of Zimmerman’s injuries. Sure, these are not mutually exclusive. I personally however, do not think it was faked or incomplete, I am concerned about the thoroughness of it, but that may be unfounded. ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2565 "2012-03-30T20:10:26Z")
**Gangster Octopus** you said > [@](#): > > It goes toward trying to figure put who is telling the truth. Many of Zimmerman’s public defenders are painting a picture that seems at odds with what actually happened. to **Terr’s** mention he/she doesn’t understand as to why some are stuck on your question: "If the answer is yes then would it be safe to assume that Zimmerman showed no signs of brain injury to the police that would merit such an insistence. " So, it’s not us about speculation, it’s about something that has no real bearing on the actual issue (although, I guess if there was a clear brain injury we wouldn’t be talking here). No one is claiming there was a significant brain injury. There were wounds-or not whichever camp you’re in. If there were wounds, they are mentioned in the police report and presumably the SFD report. But there is no duty for the police to document a declination of medical attention/EMS transport. There was a duty by the SFD. So, if that matters to you, we’ll find it there–when it is released. No need to give your HO on this issue. Any HO as to a duty on the part of the police to include information about a declination of EMS transport does not even live up to a civil standard of giving a crap. It’s straw grasping. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2566 "2012-03-30T20:10:30Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Sure, these are not mutually exclusive. I personally however, do not think it was faked or incomplete, I am concerned about the thoroughness of it, but that may be unfounded. So - if you don’t think it was faked, does that mean you do think Zimmerman was injured - bloody nose and back of head? ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2567 "2012-03-30T20:23:28Z")
I noticed this little blurb about Zimmerman’s clothes: [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/28/2717866/tough-minded-prosecutor-in-spotlight.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/28/2717866/tough-minded-prosecutor-in-spotlight.html) > [@](#): > > Corey said her investigators are painstakingly examining all the evidence, from Zimmerman’s gun to his\*\* clothes\*\* to witness statements to the autopsy on Trayvon’s corpse. Once done, she said, her team will likely decide whether or not to bring charges, although she has not completely ruled out taking the case to a grand jury. A Sanford homicide investigator in the case requested shortly after the shooting that prosecutors charge Zimmerman in the death, but the Seminole state attorney’s office declined at the time. Is it possible they took his clothes into evidence? SYG may prevent an immediate arrest, but they could get his clothes, with a search warrant if necessary, couldn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2568 "2012-03-30T20:23:31Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Is Zimmerman claiming he shot Martin while Martin was on top of him? That appears to be the generally accepted hypothesis, from all I’ve read; but [here at Booman Tribune](http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2012/3/30/133335/283) you’ll find Booman quoting and analyzing witnesses’ statements and arriving at to this scenario: > [@](#): > > There are some very minor disparities between these two accounts, but together they paint a consistent picture. There was some yelling. Then there was a very heartbreaking kind of pleading sound. Then a gun shot. There weren’t any sounds indicating a fight. One witness described more of a scuffle with one man on top of the other. None of the witnesses thought that Zimmerman appeared to be injured, but they all agreed that he appeared to be worried, holding a hand to his head in kind of a “what just happened?” fashion. > > To go with this, we also have Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend’s account. She was on the phone up until about a minute before the police arrived on the scene, and she felt like she heard a pushing match that caused Trayvon’s earpiece to fall out and the call to cut off. Independent records confirm the timing of the call. The last spoken words she heard were Trayvon asking Zimmerman why he was following him and Zimmerman replying by asking Trayvon what he was doing in the neighborhood. > > Considering how tight the timeline is here, it appears that this is what happened. Trayvon interrupted his conversation with his girlfriend to confront Zimmerman. Zimmerman was verbally aggressive in return. They approached each other and started pushing. Loud words were exchanged. The fight went to the ground. Zimmerman wound up on top. Martin cried out for help. Then Zimmerman pulled his gun on him, causing Martin to make a frightened desperate plea. And then he was executed. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2569 "2012-03-30T20:32:02Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > That appears to be the generally accepted hypothesis, from all I’ve read; but [here at Booman Tribune](http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2012/3/30/133335/283) you’ll find Booman quoting and analyzing witnesses’ statements and arriving at to this scenario: Except: 1. There was an eyewitness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. 2. If Zimmerman shot Martin while Zimmerman was sitting on him, then either a. Martin would be shot in the back, or b. his body would be on its back. Neither of which is true. ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2570 "2012-03-30T20:38:28Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > That appears to be the generally accepted hypothesis, from all I’ve read; but [here at Booman Tribune](http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2012/3/30/133335/283) you’ll find Booman quoting and analyzing witnesses’ statements and arriving at to this scenario: At least one witness is reported as saying the person in red was on the bottom of the scuffle. Zimmerman was wearing red. Of course, Zimmerman may have changed clothes, since there are shouts that there are no blood stains on the red shirt as seen in the grainy video. SO WHY NOT WAIT FOR THE STATEMENTS THAT WERE TAKEN BEFORE SIGNIFICANT SECONDARY MOTIVES AND JUST GENERAL NORMAL WITNESS BEHAVIOR HAD AN EFFECT ON THE WITNESSES’ TESTIMONY?! Insert rationale here as to police “correction” of witness testimony. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2571 "2012-03-30T20:39:01Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > That appears to be the generally accepted hypothesis, from all I’ve read; but [here at Booman Tribune](http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2012/3/30/133335/283) you’ll find Booman quoting and analyzing witnesses’ statements and arriving at to this scenario: Yes, that is certainly a unbiased account, espcially the _"And then he was executed. "_ part. :rolleyes::dubious: ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2572 "2012-03-30T20:45:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, that is certainly a unbiased account, espcially the _"And then he was executed. "_ part. :rolleyes::dubious: Please point out where I said it was unbiased. Or anything else other than it was one hypothesis currently being offered. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2573 "2012-03-30T20:46:38Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > And while we’re at it, so many of you are saying the police report is faked to support Zimmerman or includes both initial and supplemental information and may not be complete. You can’t have it both ways. You suspect the police report? Then quit using it to show a lack of documentation of Zimmerman’s injuries. I don’t think the report is “faked”. I’m taking it at face value. And when I do that, I see no evidence that Zimmerman, only minutes before, had experienced blunt force trauma to the head. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect to see such evidence in a police report when that little detail is central to Zimmerman’s account. In fact, I think it’s unreasonable to not expect it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2574 "2012-03-30T20:52:14Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Please point out where I said it was unbiased. Or anything else other than it was one hypothesis currently being offered. You didn’t. But the writer thinks it was. However, it’s biased on so many levels, it’s worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2575 "2012-03-30T20:52:57Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > At least one witness is reported as saying the person in red was on the bottom of the scuffle. Zimmerman was wearing red. Of course, Zimmerman may have changed clothes, since there are shouts that there are no blood stains on the red shirt as seen in the grainy video. > > SO WHY NOT WAIT FOR THE STATEMENTS THAT WERE TAKEN BEFORE SIGNIFICANT SECONDARY MOTIVES AND JUST GENERAL NORMAL WITNESS BEHAVIOR HAD AN EFFECT ON THE WITNESSES’ TESTIMONY?! > > Insert rationale here as to police “correction” of witness testimony. As I said I am trying to get to how reliable Zimmerman’s public defenders are, such as Zimmerman’s brother who said on Piers Morgan: > [@](#): > > “Nobody just stood there with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea. You return force with force when somebody assaults you. George was out of breath.\*\* He was barely conscious. His last thing he remembers doing was moving his head from the concrete to the grass so that if he was banged one more time, he wouldn’t be, you know, wearing diapers for the rest of his life and being spoon-fed by his brother.\*\* And there would have been George dead had he not acted decisively and instantaneously in that moment when he was being disarmed.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2576 "2012-03-30T20:53:32Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I don’t think the report is “faked”. I’m taking it at face value. And when I do that, I see no evidence that Zimmerman, only minutes before, had experienced blunt force trauma to the head. > > I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect to see such evidence in a police report when that little detail is central to Zimmerman’s account. In fact, I think it’s unreasonable to not expect it. “Swing and a miss!” ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2577 "2012-03-30T20:59:31Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > And when I do that, I see no evidence that Zimmerman, only minutes before, had experienced blunt force trauma to the head. You read the police report? So you saw where Officer Smith says “Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and back of his head…Zimmerman was given first aid by the SFD [while in the backseat of the police car.” So, do you just dismiss this? It is some evidence of an injury. If it’s not corroborated by the SFD, I’ll look at it with a jaundiced eye. How are you not being a super-sleuth without all, or most of, the facts? As for reasonableness in not documenting a need to go to the ER in the police report, you are presuming that the injuries should have necessitated such a need and that it’s not enough for just the SFD to document it. Your reasonableness standard would not even survive a summary judgment. Truly. And you’re ignoring both Bricker and I telling you it’s not something included in police reports. Again, of those 400 reports, all of them included injuries and involved me observing all later medical records as to the injury. About 30 of those 400 included injuries where the EMS recommended an ER trip to the hospital–but only two included police mention of it–one was under ridiculous circumstances. Frankly, on this issue, you’re not even close to reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2578 "2012-03-30T21:02:14Z")
Zimmerman’s attorney said that Zimmerman went for medical treatment the next day. Couldn’t those records be released be released if Zimmerman requested them? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2579 "2012-03-30T21:14:59Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > No it is the people who are **attacking** Zimmerman who are saying that. No, [George Zimmerman’s brother](http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/30/george-zimmermans-brother-speaks-out-on-trayvon-martin-shooting/)said his head had been smashed on the sidewalk so many times, if he had been hit one more time, he would be “wearing diapers for the rest of his life and being spoon-fed by his brother.” ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2580 "2012-03-30T21:46:43Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > No, [George Zimmerman’s brother](http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/30/george-zimmermans-brother-speaks-out-on-trayvon-martin-shooting/)said his head had been smashed on the sidewalk so many times, if he had been hit one more time, he would be “wearing diapers for the rest of his life and being spoon-fed by his brother.” You seem to be paraphrasing here: > [@](#): > > Nobody just stood there with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea. You return force with force when somebody assaults you. George was out of breath. He was barely conscious. **His last thing he remembers doing was moving his head from the concrete to the grass so that if he was banged one more time, he wouldn’t be, you know, wearing diapers for the rest of his life and being spoon-fed by his brother.** And there would have been George dead had he not acted decisively and instantaneously in that moment when he was being disarmed. He doesn’t say anything about his head being smashed into the sidewalk multiple times. He is saying if George got his head smashed **more times** into the sidewalk it would be bad. I can agree to that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=128) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=130)