# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 131
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2601 "2012-03-31T03:58:59Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > “Take what I can get”? Can you clarify? It means, “I’m going to keep pretending that I’m being unbiased and objective, but as soon as something comes out in the news that supports my suspicions, I’ll wave it around gleefully and hope no one notices that I’m taking sides.” Me? I’m still waiting for medical records. Maybe Zimmerman has invisible blood and doesn’t bruise easily. But surely if he went to the doctor and he was diagnosed with a broken nose, this information will be “leaked” like all the other stuff has. Or Zimmerman will shut everyone up by releasing it himself. Or his family will show some photos or something. Shit. He has to have SOME proof that he was as fucked up as he made it sound. If anything, you’d think his father would have instructed him to go directly to the hospital right after the questioning. So I suspect we will see something eventually, assuming he and/or his father are intelligent human beings. Just like I suspect we will eventually hear something about Martin’s gunshot wound. ABC is probably waiting for the weekend to blow over before they reveal another shocker. Got to keep everyone salivating, you know. All I know is that if that bullet entered through the back, no amount of contortioning will be able to explain it away. Yet people will try. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2602 "2012-03-31T04:01:02Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > All I know is that if that bullet entered through the back, no amount of contortioning will be able to explain it away. Yet people will try. The police already said it was a front chest wound, from close up. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2603 "2012-03-31T04:14:50Z")
OK. Now I can put the garbage can down. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2604 "2012-03-31T04:27:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Except: > > 1. There was an eyewitness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. IIRC, the witness said that someone wearing something of a certain color was on top. I think we’re talking about Austin McClendon. Hos mother has said since that the police had to offer him a multiple choice question to elicit the color of the clothing. > [@Terr](#): > > 1. If Zimmerman shot Martin while Zimmerman was sitting on him, then either > a. Martin would be shot in the back, or > b. his body would be on its back. > Neither of which is true. These are certainly possible outcomes, but hardly the only ones. ---
**Author:** ![Hmmmm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Hmmmm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hmmmm)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2605 "2012-03-31T04:33:28Z")
What Zimmerman told his father. Not sure if the interview has been posted already, just posting it incase. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGBLve74DhI) “(George Zimmerman) went to the next street, realized where he was and was walking to his vehicle,” Robert Zimmerman said. "It’s my understanding, at that point, Trayvon Martin walked up to him and asked him, ‘Do you have a [expletive] problem?’ " Robert Zimmerman says his son told Martin he did not have a problem, and reached for his cellphone. Then, Robert Zimmerman claims, Martin punched George Zimmerman in the face, breaking his nose and knocking him to the ground. “Trayvon Martin got on top of him, and just started beating him,” Robert Zimmerman claims. “In his face, on his nose, hitting his face on the concrete.” “After nearly a minute of being beaten, George was trying to get his head off the concrete, trying to move with Trayvon on him, in the grass. In doing so, his firearm was shown. Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of, ‘You’re going to die now,’ or ‘You’re going to die tonight’ or something to that effect,” Robert Zimmerman said. Robert Zimmerman said Martin continued to beat his son, and George Zimmerman at some point pulled out his gun and “did what he did.” Robert Zimmerman also responded to the 911 tape audio that has been widely publicized in the case, in which someone can be heard screaming for help. Martin’s family claims it was their son screaming on the tape, and the fact that the screaming stopped after a gunshot is heard proves it. “All of our family, everyone who knows George, knows absolutely that is George screaming,” Robert Zimmerman said. “There’s no doubt in anyone’s mind.” When asked why the recording picked up screams for help but not the alleged threats by Martin, Robert Zimmerman said he does not know. Robert Zimmerman also claims he doubts the account of the night from Martin’s girlfriend, who claims she was talking with Martin on the phone before the incident. “I don’t believe that happened,” Robert Zimmerman said. “I don’t believe she was on the phone with him, and I find it very strange with the publicity involved… that all of a sudden, after three weeks, someone would remember that they were on the phone.” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2606 "2012-03-31T05:39:48Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > IIRC, the witness said that someone wearing something of a certain color was on top. > I think we’re talking about Austin McClendon. Hos mother has said since that the police had to offer him a multiple choice question to elicit the color of the clothing. No. A different eyewitness who clearly saw Martin on top. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2607 "2012-03-31T07:16:38Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > “Take what I can get”? Can you clarify? This sounds awfully like you’re willing to take whatever half-ass crumb of evidence that can be scrounged up from between the cushions of an abandoned, urine-soaked sofa, just as long as it allows you to continue your belief that Trayvone had it coming to him. But maybe I’m misreading you. > > Color me crazy, but if Zimmerman had a bandage on his face the next day but he didn’t have one immediately after being treated by EMTs as evident in that video, it makes him look even more like a liar trying to play the part of a victim. I mean, I’m suffering from information starvation. This morning, I found myself wishing that Zimmerman would commit suicide, so the police reports would be released. Thank god, I never got into the Casey Anthony story. That went on for years. This story grabbed me when I realized I actually had driven down Oregon within a 100 yards of where it happened. I didn’t find the bandage incongruous. His lawyer said he went to a clinic the next day. I assume they would apply more than first aid to Zimmerman. If the video doesn’t show up online soon, I’ll try to upload my copy. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2608 "2012-03-31T07:25:37Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If the EMT told them medical attention was needed for a potential concussion, yes the cops would need to have noted that. Not due to legal requirement, but because that’s what a _competent cop would do_. > > I don’t care what lawyers say, to be honest. Too many lawyers mistake common sense and ethical principles with legal ones, which is why society generally distrusts them. I brought up what two lawyers said because we both actually read lots of police reports and both know that this doesn’t often happen. So my follow-on question is: how do you reconcile your view – that’s what a competent cop would do – with the factual information that in the majority of cases, cops don’t do that? Put another way: since you are not a cop, or a lawyer, or someone who has any experience in any related field, what source are you relying upon to say it’s anything more than your opinion that cops should do that? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2609 "2012-03-31T07:54:15Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > IIRC, the witness said that someone wearing something of a certain color was on top. > I think we’re talking about Austin McClendon. Hos mother has said since that the police had to offer him a multiple choice question to elicit the color of the clothing. > > These are certainly possible outcomes, but hardly the only ones. No “John” saw a guy in a red sweater on the bottom. McClendon didn’t even report seeing two people. Obviously if “John” thought Zimmerman’s Jacket was a Sweater, then the light was very bad. The interview with “John” is 30 seconds into the video. [http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole\_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation](http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation) I actually saw an interview with McClendon, but the site that had it took it down. There is an interview with him here, but no video. [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/17/trayvon-martin-killing-yo\_n\_1355795.html](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/17/trayvon-martin-killing-yo_n_1355795.html) I just reread the McClendon interview and it is surprising how little he said. It turns out to mostly be an interview with his mom. I perfectly willing to throw Zimmerman under the bus. I’ve got friends in Sanford and I don’t want them to get hurt. I’m just calling them as I see them. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2610 "2012-03-31T12:22:05Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I didn’t find the bandage incongruous. His lawyer said he went to a clinic the next day. I assume they would apply more than first aid to Zimmerman. But you do realize that Zimmerman is fully capable of sticking a bandage on his own face to give the appearance of serious injury, right? Especially a day-late bandage. I’m amazed that you think this helps, not hurts, Zimmermans credibility. If the EMTs report differs from his clinic records, which will you be more likely to accept? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2611 "2012-03-31T12:24:15Z")
For some reason the Video is on Fox Tampabay Site. The reporter doing the interview is the same as what I saw, but the guy doing the intro is different. [http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/neighbor-defends-george-zimmerman-03302012](http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/neighbor-defends-george-zimmerman-03302012) ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2612 "2012-03-31T13:02:15Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > But you do realize that Zimmerman is fully capable of sticking a bandage on his own face to give the appearance of serious injury, right? Especially a day-late bandage. I’m amazed that you think this helps, not hurts, Zimmermans credibility. > > If the EMTs report differs from his clinic records, which will you be more likely to accept? I expect the clinic records to be more detailed. Based on the time line, the EMTs looked at Zimmerman for a maximum of 15 minutes in the back seat of Officer Smith’s patrol car. I wouldn’t be surprised if the clinic notes more swelling on Zimmerman’s head, since the EMT’s examined examined Zimmerman a few minutes after the incident. If the clinic notes anything inconsistent with the EMT’s records, I would accept the Clinic, since they had more time to examine him under better lighting conditions. Officer Smith’s Statement > [@](#): > > Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. What kind of scenario are you proposing? That Zimmerman broke his own nose before he went to the clinic? If he had any injuries that can’t be reconciled with the SPD pictures taken at the police station, then he is toast. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2613 "2012-03-31T13:03:04Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I don’t care what lawyers say, to be honest. Too many lawyers mistake common sense and ethical principles with legal ones, which is why society generally distrusts them. So you don’t believe the prosecutor who said Zimmerman should be arrested, right? He’s a lawyer, and therefore not trustworthy. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2614 "2012-03-31T13:12:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you don’t believe the prosecutor who said Zimmerman should be arrested, right? He’s a lawyer, and therefore not trustworthy. > > Regards, > Shodan It was a detective who said that, not the prosecutor. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2615 "2012-03-31T13:25:01Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I expect the clinic records to be more detailed. Based on the time line, the EMTs looked at Zimmerman for a maximum of 15 minutes in the back seat of Officer Smith’s patrol car. I wouldn’t be surprised if the clinic notes more swelling on Zimmerman’s head, since the EMT’s examined examined Zimmerman a few minutes after the incident. If the clinic notes anything inconsistent with the EMT’s records, I would accept the Clinic, since they had more time to examine him under better lighting conditions. Detailed is not necessarily better or more reflective of the truth. The EMTs would have had access to Zimmerman right after the incident, therefore whatever wounds he had then are more likely wounds that was incurred during his encounter with Martin. The more time that elapses after a crime, the less weight evidence collected carries. You’ve said as much yourself about witness statments. Each passing hour allows Zimmerman the opportunity to manufacture evidence that makes him look good. It’s a stretch to believe the EMTs would have released Zimmerman with open wounds sans bandages, and it’s even more of a stretch to believe he’d need bandages a day after he was injured but didn’t minutes afterwards. > [@](#): > > What kind of scenario are you proposing? That Zimmerman broke his own nose before he went to the clinic? If he had any injuries that can’t be reconciled with the SPD pictures taken at the police station, then he is toast. Are you seriously holding on to the dream that Zimmermans nose was broken after looking at that video? If so, you’re more gullible than I thought you were. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2616 "2012-03-31T13:46:03Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Are you seriously holding on to the dream that Zimmermans nose was broken after looking at that video? If so, you’re more gullible than I thought you were. Ice packs are supposed to keep swelling down. Did Zimmerman get an ice pack from the EMTs? Did it work? How well? I’d say no ice pack plus video destroys the Zimmerman broken nose story, while learning of an ice pack keeps it alive. I’d also say that it’s sure a shame we’re busily writing Zimmerman’s cover stories for him, thinking of every angle and leaving nothing to catch him by surprise in a subsequent interrogation. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2617 "2012-03-31T14:03:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ice packs are supposed to keep swelling down. Did Zimmerman get an ice pack from the EMTs? Did it work? How well? Forget about swelling for a sec. Ice packs are the least of it. To continue to press the idea that he could have had a broken nose, even though he refused hospital care right away and despite video evidence showing a perfectly normal nose and the absence of other features that frequently accompany a broken nose (bleeding, black eyes, open-mouth breathing) is pretty damn insane and desperate at this point. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2618 "2012-03-31T14:04:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ice packs are supposed to keep swelling down. Did Zimmerman get an ice pack from the EMTs? Did it work? How well? That’s a good question, but I don’t know if we’ll ever find this out. His hands were hand-cuffed. How can a person apply an ice pack to their nose in hand-cuffs? And they can’t carry one when they get out of a police cruiser either, for the same reason. It could be that the police gave him one once they sat down for the questioning. Is it SOP to record someone when they are being questioned? I’d guess that if there was a ice pack used, it would have happened during this period of time. And if the thing was video-recorded and we don’t see an ice pack, then yeah, no broken nose for you, buddy. Because I can maybe kinda-sorta buy a non-bloody broken nose, based on what people have said here. But I can’t buy one that doesn’t hurt enough to warrant ice. > [@](#): > > I’d also say that it’s sure a shame we’re busily writing Zimmerman’s cover stories for him, thinking of every angle and leaving nothing to catch him by surprise in a subsequent interrogation. Yes. But this could have been avoided if Zimmerman had been arrested. I know you’re just going to yell “FOR WHAT?!” at me, but obviously this is even a point of disagreement amongst lawyers and law enforcement. So while it’s not clear-cut there is sufficient probable cause, it’s not definite in the other direction either. I suppose that’s why a grand jury is needed to decide this thing. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2619 "2012-03-31T14:59:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So my follow-on question is: how do you reconcile your view – that’s what a competent cop would do – with the factual information that in the majority of cases, cops don’t do that? I don’t know if this is the case or not, but I would expect that, since these laws have been on the books for a while, “competent” cops in states with “stand your ground” statutes would by now have gotten into the practice of noting _and photographing_ any lacerations, etc. on anyone who has just been involved in an incident where the law might be invoked. So the EMT thing shouldn’t even be an issue. Considering the ramifications of this kind of law, I would expect a “competent” police report to have photographs, although it’s possible that it might not in this case. I get the impression that one of the problems with the law is that it leaves a lot up to police discretion. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2620 "2012-03-31T15:16:24Z")
Since the lawyers in this thread strenuously disagree with the idea that a cop would want to document that a subject was referred for hospital care and refused, maybe they’d like to read what the FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin ([http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi\_m2194/is\_11\_76/ai\_n21118674/pg\_3/?tag=content;col1](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_11_76/ai_n21118674/pg_3/?tag=content;col1)) has said about the matter. Although the article is about what needs to be documented in a situation in which the use of force was involved, the author’s point about why documenting injuries and noting waivers of medical attention _in their report_ is appropriate for any situation in which a suspect has been injured. Doing this very common sense thing protects the officer from accusations of police-inflicted injury and keeps him from being blamed for medical complications that arise while the subject is in custody. It does not all fall on the EMT to cover the cop’s ass, in other words. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=130) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=132)