# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 149
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2961 "2012-04-03T17:52:07Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I am. See the previous. Doesn’t the “and serves no legitimate purpose” give Zimmerman an out? He apparently believed that he was following a potential criminal. Obviously he wasn’t but he didn’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2962 "2012-04-03T17:52:33Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I am. See the previous. I’m pretty sure you’re wrong. The text right in your post says “_and_ repeatedly”. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2963 "2012-04-03T17:53:11Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > What was he going to do once he caught up with him? Just stand there and shoot the breeze? You’re assuming he intended to catch up with him. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2964 "2012-04-03T17:54:22Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You’re assuming he intended to catch up with him. Are you saying he caught up to him by accident? ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2965 "2012-04-03T17:54:26Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > So again I ask you explain how Martin ended up killed no where near the street or Zimmerman’s truck. When he called 911, he initially told him his location was on Retreat View. The directions he gave them included a left turn onto the street immediately after the community entrance. Near the clubhouse. But he changed the location and directions as he continued to follow Martin. > [@](#): > > Dispatcher: Yeah we’ve got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else. > Zimmerman: Okay. These assholes they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse. > Dispatcher: So it’s on the lefthand side from the clubhouse? > Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh you go straight in, don’t turn, and make a left. Shit he’s running. > Dispatcher: He’s running? Which way is he running? > Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood. Later… > [@](#): > > Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there? > Zimmerman: Alright, where you going to meet with them at? > Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that’s my truck…[unintelligible] > Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of? > Zimmerman: I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address. Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area? > Zimmerman: Yeah, I…[unintelligible] > Dispatcher: What’s your apartment number? > Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s 1950, oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t know where this kid is. > Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then? > Zimmerman: Yeah that’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2966 "2012-04-03T17:58:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Are you saying he caught up to him by accident? Possibly. TM may have gotten out of his line of sight and he (GZ) assumed he ™ had kept on going, not realizing that TM had stopped. (That’s my vague impression of what has been claimed, anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2967 "2012-04-03T18:00:18Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > So again I ask you explain how Martin ended up killed no where near the street or Zimmerman’s truck Because Zimmerman followed him to see where Martin went. Again, the point is specific definition here. Follow is: > [@](#): > > Go after (someone) in order to observe or monitor. Chase is: > [@](#): > > Pursue in order to catch or catch up with > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > When he called 911, he initially told him his location was on Retreat View. The directions he gave them included a left turn onto the street immediately after the community entrance. Near the clubhouse. > > If Zimmerman stopped his pursuit immediately after instructed to by 911, can you explain how Martin and Zimmerman ended up crossing paths behind the houses on Twin Trees? What plausible explanation exists for this except that Zimmerman continued to chase Martin. Martin didn’t like Zimmerman following him and decided to confront him about it. The idea that Zimmerman chased down Martin and confront him doesn’t fit the timeline. It requires that Martin, running scared, fails to cover ~250 feet in 2+ minutes, fails to yell for help, fails to knock on any door, and essentially be the most incompetent person at fleeing in the history of the world. Martin confronting Zimmerman makes a lot more sense. Zimmerman follows Martin to the path in the back of the houses and fails to see Martin. Martin waits until Zimmerman gets off the phone, confronts him, and a scuffle begins. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2968 "2012-04-03T18:00:51Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Then again no one is arguing that he broke any laws by continuing to follow and/or look for Martin. **you with the face** claimed that not following the recommendations of the 911 operator meant that Zimmerman was more likely to brandish his weapon. Which is illegal. But as I mention, the fact that you do something legal is not evidence that you have broken the law by doing something illegal. There is no evidence that Zimmerman brandished his weapon. There is some indication that he did not - unless you think a likely response to someone pointing a gun at you is to start screaming for help, while simultaneously attacking the person holding you at gunpoint with your fist and/or iced tea, bloodying his nose and knocking him down, and then slamming his head against the ground. And the person holding the gun waits until he has been decked and his head cut open before firing the pistol he has in his hand all along. And as a matter of fact, someone **is** claiming he broke the law. > [@Stoid](#): > > So is stalking, something with which he could certainly be charged, taking his “perfectly legal” “following” of Martin and turning it into a crime. Since **Stoid** will not be able to produce even one solitary instance of someone being charged with stalking in Florida for following a stranger thru his neighborhood on one occasion, I think we can be pretty sure this is as solidly founded in law and reality as the Easter Bunny. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2969 "2012-04-03T18:01:14Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > But he changed the location and directions as he continued to follow Martin. > > Later… Right. The second half of the convo comes _after_ the dispatcher told him not to pursue. So his refusal to give a specific location for meeting the cops is a clear giveaway that he was on the move at that point. This is evidence that he’s lied in his statement, if in fact he is insisting he didn’t follow Martin after he was told not to. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2970 "2012-04-03T18:03:16Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Indeed. So is stalking, something with which he could certainly be charged, taking his “perfectly legal” “following” of Martin and turning it into a crime. (2) Any person who willfully, maliciously, **and repeatedly** follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. Was Martin followed “repeatedly”? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2971 "2012-04-03T18:07:38Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Brandishing a weapon is illegal, yes. I’m not sure why folks are assuming this means much of anything in terms of Zimmerman’s likely conduct. He chased after a person after he was advised not to do so by 911. Doesn’t this demonstrate he’s not above coloring out of the lines? Pulling out his weapon unlawfully is only one step removed from this. Your ‘one step removed’ is the difference between committing a crime and not committing a crime. If he didn’t actually point his firearm at Martin, then he might get away with probation and some expensive legal bills. If he actually pointed his firearm at Martin, then he is looking at Aggravated Assault and a three year mandatory minimum sentence. [http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/Assault-Aggravated-Assault-Charges-Florida.html](http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/Assault-Aggravated-Assault-Charges-Florida.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2972 "2012-04-03T18:09:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > (2) Any person who willfully, maliciously, **and repeatedly** follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. > > Was Martin followed “repeatedly”? Yes for several hundred concurrent one second intervals. (I am kidding of course, I do not believe stalking is at all relevant here.) ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2973 "2012-04-03T18:11:28Z")
**treis** covered what I was going to say, well up thread. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2974 "2012-04-03T18:17:30Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Right. The second half of the convo comes _after_ the dispatcher told him not to pursue. So his refusal to give a specific location for meeting the cops is a clear giveaway that he was on the move at that point. > > This is evidence that he’s lied in his statement, if in fact he is insisting he didn’t follow Martin after he was told not to. I was unaware that the fact he followed Martin was ever in question. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2975 "2012-04-03T18:20:40Z")
> [@](#): > > (a) “Harass” means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person that causes substantial emotional distress in such person and\*\* serves no legitimate purpose\*\*. From Zimmerman’s call to police, we know he got out and followed Martin. Getting out of the car to follow Martin was a stupid thing for Zimmerman to do. Nevertheless, in light of the fact he was on the phone with police at the time, I think its reasonable to believe it can be considered a legitimate purpose. Stupid, but legitimate. What happens between the end of Zimmerman’s call and the start of the fight? That is the big question. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2976 "2012-04-03T18:23:56Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Because they want to save the seeds. Are you saying that Martin was growing Marijuana? Besides if there were seeds in the bag, wouldn’t the school expel him, not suspend him? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2977 "2012-04-03T18:26:33Z")
> [@newme](#): > > From Zimmerman’s call to police, we know he got out and followed Martin. Getting out of the car to follow Martin was a stupid thing for Zimmerman to do. Nevertheless, in light of the fact he was on the phone with police at the time, I think its reasonable to believe it can be considered a legitimate purpose. Stupid, but legitimate. > > What happens between the end of Zimmerman’s call and the start of the fight? That is the big question. Does Zimmerman simply hang up on the operator or vice versa? I find it strange, although maybe indicative of nothing, that Zimmerman would hang up. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2978 "2012-04-03T18:31:52Z")
Ah, another forensics question. Is it possible for the phone company to determine whether someone hung up on a call, or a loss of signal ended the call? I have no idea, though even a hangup doesn’t preclude it from being accidental. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2979 "2012-04-03T18:37:40Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Are you saying that Martin was growing Marijuana? Besides if there were seeds in the bag, wouldn’t the school expel him, not suspend him? Jesus it was a throw-away comment. Not intended to indict the kind on felony drug cultivation. I forget how damn pedantic this place is even outside of GD and GQ. It is simply one explanation of why someone might carry the empty bag. It isn’t THE explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/2980 "2012-04-03T18:38:14Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Indeed. So is stalking, something with which he could certainly be charged, taking his “perfectly legal” “following” of Martin and turning it into a crime. > > Then the jury would decide if he was guilty. If all they heard as evidence was what we already know, I think a whole lot of people would say he was: A series of acts, though, means at least two. Following someone on one occasion is not “a series of acts.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=148) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=150)