# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 151
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3001 "2012-04-03T19:58:59Z")
If we’re looking for evidence that Zimmerman continued to chase after he was told not to, the most important interval is between the time Zimmy tells him his location by the clubhouse (roughly the start of the 911 call) to when the dispatcher tells him not to pursue Martin anymore. Assuming that this represents the full length of time that he was following Martin, how likely is it that Zimmerman would have made it over to the area where the shooting occurred? I think its bloodly unlikely, but I’m open to some convincing. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3002 "2012-04-03T20:00:08Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You interpret those facts entirely differently than I do. The same facts indict Zimmerman. So explain Martin’s actions in the 3-4 minutes between the time he runs and the altercation. ---
**Author:** ![just\_some\_guy5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@just\_some\_guy5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/just_some_guy5)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3003 "2012-04-03T20:00:14Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > I can’t speak to the weather and local dress norms. For my area, 62° is shorts and t-shirt weather right now. In CA this temperature would warrant coats. Honest to god. Coats. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3004 "2012-04-03T20:02:04Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If we’re looking for evidence that Zimmerman continued to chase after he was told not to, the most important interval is between the time Zimmy tells him his location by the clubhouse (roughly the start of the 911 call) to when the dispatcher tells him not to pursue Martin anymore. > > Assuming that this represents the full length of time that he was following Martin, how likely is it that Zimmerman would have made it over to the area where the shooting occurred? I think its bloodly unlikely, but I’m open to some convincing. Zimmerman wasn’t by the clubhouse. His truck was parked by the cut through, which is 100-200 feet away from where Martin’s body was found. A person can easily cover that in 10-30 seconds running. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3005 "2012-04-03T20:08:02Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Zimmerman wasn’t by the clubhouse. His truck was parked by the cut through, which is 100-200 feet away from where Martin’s body was found. A person can easily cover that in 10-30 seconds running. And his only intent was to politely ask, “What are you doing here?” That does not square with running after someone. He formed his intent when he called Martin a “fucking coon” and lamented “These assholes always get away.” Zimmerman was determined to prevent another coon from getting away. It is not reasonable to conclude he politely asked, “What are you doing here?” then walked back to his truck. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3006 "2012-04-03T20:15:34Z")
> [@treis](#): > > So explain Martin’s actions in the 3-4 minutes between the time he runs and the altercation. He didn’t want to lead the weirdo/psycho who was following him to his father’s fiancee’s place, so he tried to hide. That was easy enough. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3007 "2012-04-03T20:16:38Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > And his only intent was to politely ask, “What are you doing here?” That does not square with running after someone. He formed his intent when he called Martin a “fucking coon” and lamented “These assholes always get away.” Zimmerman was determined to prevent another coon from getting away. It is not reasonable to conclude he politely asked, “What are you doing here?” then walked back to his truck. See what I mean? It’s just assumptions. Your narrative is racist guy profiles kid and then bags him a negro. There’s no attempt to explain facts or detail actions. It’s just racist asshole kills black kid. And we are all supposed to nod our heads in agreement and cluck our tongue at the dirty racist. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3008 "2012-04-03T20:18:44Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Zimmerman wasn’t by the clubhouse. His truck was parked by the cut through, which is 100-200 feet away from where Martin’s body was found. A person can easily cover that in 10-30 seconds running. Okay, so what do you think that Zimmerman was doing in the interlude between the 911 call and the encounter with Martin? Yesterday I read that in Martin’s girlfriend’s statement, she claims he did stop at some point during his walk because of the rain (presumably so he could stand under a covering). If I can find where I read that, I’ll post it. So this might account for why Martin didn’t instantaneously make it home. If Zimmerman expects to us to believe he didn’t continue to go after Martin, he needs to account for his time after the 911 call until the start of the scuffle. Because that’s a mighty long time for him to be in the process of heading towards his truck if, as you say, a person could cover that distance in 10-30 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3009 "2012-04-03T20:18:54Z")
> [@treis](#): > > See what I mean? It’s just assumptions. Your narrative is racist guy profiles kid and then bags him a negro. There’s no attempt to explain facts or detail actions. It’s just racist asshole kills black kid. And we are all supposed to nod our heads in agreement and cluck our tongue at the dirty racist. Yeah, how could I believe that? After all, it is only based on Zimmerman’s own words. What flimsy assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3010 "2012-04-03T20:23:56Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Jesus it was a throw-away comment. Not intended to indict the kind on felony drug cultivation. I forget how damn pedantic this place is even outside of GD and GQ. > > It is simply one explanation of why someone might carry the empty bag. It isn’t THE explanation. I would suggest using the smiley face icons. I got complaints to the moderator for my ostrich comment. Also that reminds me of a story about a friend of mine when her son was riding in my car. She was going on a rant about cigarette smoking when her son piped up from the back seat, “Mommy, what about the little cigarettes you smoke?”. She was furious and turned around in her seat and said, “Shut up and don’t ever talk about mommy’s little cigarettes again.”. But really, I don’t know. I have friends that smoked marijuana and even raised it in window boxes, but I never discussed the details of cultivation. This usually falls under the heading of “shit I did in high school/college stories”. Do people actually save their seeds? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3011 "2012-04-03T20:26:24Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > He didn’t want to lead the weirdo/psycho who was following him to his father’s fiancee’s place, so he tried to hide. > > That was easy enough. One that barely has a veneer of plausibility. (1) If he is hiding, how does he end up dead in the middle of the sidewalk? (2) Why is he casually chatting with his girlfriend instead of calling the cops? (3) Why doesn’t he yell for help? (4) Why doesn’t he knock on a door? Your explanation requires Martin to act with the intelligence of a 7 year old and the irrationality of an Irishman. What rational person becomes so terrified of a person in a truck staring at them while talking on a cellphone that they take of running and hide? What person, when so terrified for their life, fails to yell for help, call 911, seek the safety of a home, and stops to hide with a head start? It just doesn’t make a lick of sense. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3012 "2012-04-03T20:29:51Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Okay, so what do you think that Zimmerman was doing in the interlude between the 911 call and the encounter with Martin? Standing at the beginning of the path looking for Martin? Or maybe he walks up and down the path to see if he can spot Martin. I don’t really know. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Yesterday I read that in Martin’s girlfriend’s statement, she claims he did stop at some point during his walk because of the rain (presumably so he could stand under a covering). If I can find where I read that, I’ll post it. So this might account for why Martin didn’t instantaneously make it home. We are talking about the amount of time between Martin running and his eventual death. It’s 3-4 minutes, and I doubt he stops to get out of the rain after running scared. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If Zimmerman expects to us to believe he didn’t continue to go after Martin, he needs to account for his time after the 911 call until the start of the scuffle. Because that’s a mighty long time for him to be in the process of heading towards his truck if, as you say, a person could cover that distance in 10-30 seconds. Who says he hasn’t? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3013 "2012-04-03T20:34:07Z")
[http://www.dailytexanonline.com/node/12049](http://www.dailytexanonline.com/node/12049) > [@The Daily Texan](#): > > Martin, who was in town from Miami to visit his father in Sanford, told the girl on his way back from the store he’d taken shelter the rain briefly at an apartment building in his father’s gated community, Crump said. Martin then told the girl he was being followed and would try to lose the person, Crump said. It’s clear from this statement that Martin was not in a rush to get home, because at one point in his walk (before he spotted Zimmerman following him) he’d paused to get out of the rain. Given this, it’s likely he stopped a second time after Zimmerman chased him off. Perhaps at that point he thought he’d lost him and went back to his original plan of action: to talk with GF on the phone without getting wet in the rain. So he stopped somewhere. Eventually, Zimmerman finds and approaches him. “Why are you following me?” Martin asks. It sounds like the GF can account for what Martin was doing in that 3 minute interlude. Can Zimmy account for what he was doing? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3014 "2012-04-03T20:38:15Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > You’re forgetting each step is a separate act, and let’s not even mention the repeated breathing. 😛 You chuckle, but this is a question that’s been asked before. When an overzealous prosecutor wants to charge ten counts of kidnapping for each hour the victim was held hostage, or ten counts of rape for each entry and withdrawal, there has to be some rule established on how to distinguish between a single ongoing act and multiple acts. And there is. In other circumstances, I think **Stoid** would be outraged to see someone convicted of a hundred counts of stalking because he followed one person, once, for for fifty minutes. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3015 "2012-04-03T20:38:33Z")
I have timestamps for Zimmerman’s 911 call and Officer Smith’s arrival. Officer Smith reports arriving on scene at 19:17:11. One of the 911 callers sees police pull up in his car 50 seconds after the gunshot. 19:09:34 Zimmerman places call to police 19:11:40 Martin Runs. Shortly after, Zimmerman gets out and runs. 19:12:?? Martin calls his girlfriend 19:13:45 Zimmerman ends call with police ----- **The following times are +/- 60 seconds by my estimate** --------- 19:15:35 First call to 911. Screams heard in background. 19:16:21 Gunshot fired 19:17:11 Officer Smith reports he is on scene.\*\* I assume this is right before he gets out of his car.\*\*(So time he gets out of his car +/- 60 seconds ) If police had been close enough to hear the gunshot, it seems likely they would have noted that in their report That leaves 2 minutes, +/- a minute between the end of Zimmerman’s call and the first 911 call. Does anyone have timestamps for the other 911 calls? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3016 "2012-04-03T20:39:33Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > He formed his intent when he called Martin a “fucking coon” He didn’t do that, so far as I can hear. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3017 "2012-04-03T20:40:14Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > [http://www.dailytexanonline.com/node/12049](http://www.dailytexanonline.com/node/12049) > > It’s clear from this statement that Martin was not in a rush to get home, because at one point in his walk (before he spotted Zimmerman following him) he’d paused to get out of the rain. Given this, it’s likely he stopped a second time after Zimmerman chased him off. Perhaps at that point he thought he’d lost him and went back to his original plan of action: to talk with GF on the phone without getting wet in the rain. So he stopped somewhere. > > Eventually, Zimmerman finds and approaches him. “Why are you following me?” Martin asks. > > It sounds like the GF can account for what Martin was doing in that 3 minute interlude. Can Zimmy account for what he was doing? There’s no obvious place to take shelter in the google satellite view of the area. But I think the question is, why are you desperately searching to justify Martn’s actions, while trying to paint Zimmerman’s in the worst light? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3018 "2012-04-03T20:40:34Z")
> [@treis](#): > > We are talking about the amount of time between Martin running and his eventual death. It’s 3-4 minutes, and I doubt he stops to get out of the rain after running scared. Unless you have complete access to the GF’s affidavit, maybe you shouldn’t be so sure of this. Martin probably didn’t anticipate this jackaloon to chase him down to the ends of the earth. Maybe he assumed his goal was to just chase away from the place he was using for cover and that was it. The kid wasn’t a mind reader. > [@](#): > > Who says he hasn’t? But you are acting like you know that he has, even though no evidence that has seen the light of day accounts for his actions during this block of time. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3019 "2012-04-03T20:41:08Z")
> [@treis](#): > > One that barely has a veneer of plausibility. > > (1) If he is hiding, how does he end up dead in the middle of the sidewalk? Because he didn’t hide well or was spotted or whatever. You asked for an explanation. > [@](#): > > (2) Why is he casually chatting with his girlfriend instead of calling the cops? Casually? Really? And maybe he didn’t feel like he had time to call the cops. [/quote] > [@](#): > > (3) Why doesn’t he yell for help? At what point are you suggesting he yell for help? > [@](#): > > (4) Why doesn’t he knock on a door? I am not suggesting he feared for his life. I am suggesting he wanted to get away form the weirdo who was tracking him and maybe, just maybe he figured he would try and disappear for a couple of minutes until Zimmerman went away. It doesn’t take a 7 year old, it takes someone who sees some dude he doesn’t trust, in a neighborhood he isn’t from to try and just avoid the situation if he can. You know, you are right, he probably should have just gone home, but the fact he didn’t isn’t particularly strange, in my mind. it would be nice if we all did the “right thing” every time, instead of you know maybe making a less then optimal decision. I don’t know what happened, but there are reasonable explanations as to why Martin didn’t go home that don’t involve him attacking Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3020 "2012-04-03T20:41:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > He didn’t do that, so far as I can hear. He called him a “fucking coon”, so far as I can hear. In the absence of better testimony, that is what I base my conclusion on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=150) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=152)