# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 153
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3041 "2012-04-03T21:18:01Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Okay, that’s nice. Still doesn’t prove that Zimmerman would not have pulled out his gun on Martin, though. It really doesn’t. Just like Martin’s hoodie doesn’t prove he was up to no good. > > BTW, Floridians are accustomed to hot weather, so when the mercury falls below 70, we should not be surprised when they overreact and dress warmly. Likewise, go up north and you’ll see shorts and sandals come out just as it soon as it breaks 60. If you take a look at **Joel’s** user info you will see he is a Floridian, and I already mentioned to him that it would be shorts and Tee weather here up North. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3042 "2012-04-03T21:20:46Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I haven’t come up with any logical explanation for Martin’s actions that night Funny, you claim to have done just that in post #3027. Martin was walking (slowly) home from the store, making use of the time to talk to his girlfriend. Zimmerman goes to leave the neighborhood, but sees Martin. Instead of turning left to leave the neighborhood, he turns right while dialing 911. Creeping down the street in the truck, Martin has a “Driving Miss Daisy” moment, but somehow he doesn’t think that Zimmerman is going to offer him a lift. He’s a bit spooked, so he diverts his course down the foot path and starts to walk between the rows of buildings. He’s still walking slow because he wants to avoid going home so he can talk longer. A minute or so later, he sees Zimmerman walking towards him at a good clip down the same sidewalk. “Why are you following me?” “What are you doing here.” “Fuck you.” \ \ There, that’s logically consistent. The only part we have to throw out is Zimmerman’s retarded claim that he wasn’t following Martin. He wasn’t walking back to his truck, he wasn’t attacked from behind. It’s dumb and makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3043 "2012-04-03T21:22:36Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > But he changed the location and directions as he continued to follow Martin. > > Quote: > Dispatcher: Yeah we’ve got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else. > Zimmerman: Okay. These assholes they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse. > Dispatcher: So it’s on the lefthand side from the clubhouse? > Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh you go straight in, don’t turn, and make a left. Shit he’s running. > Dispatcher: **He’s running? Which way is he running?** > Zimmerman: **Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood**. > > Later… If Zimmerman had actually wanted to catch Martin he would have driven to the south end of Twin Trees and gotten between Martin and the other entrance. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3044 "2012-04-03T21:23:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Then the idea that Zimmerman was brandishing a gun in order to restrain Martin must be wrong. Uh, no. It means no such thing. Martin was walking along, talking to his girlfriend. At that point we know that he didn’t know about Zimmerman’s being armed. The gun would have come out after that. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3045 "2012-04-03T21:29:04Z")
> [@treis](#): > > This doesn’t make any sense at all. If Martin had stopped where his body was, Zimmerman should have encountered him when he ran after him. This conclusion requires you to know where Zimmerman started running after him. But you don’t know this. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3046 "2012-04-03T21:46:56Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Hello? Are you following the discussion? I’m saying the exact opposite of this. It’s **treis** you need to pose this question to. I sorry ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3047 "2012-04-03T22:02:31Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Uh, no. It means no such thing. > > Martin was walking along, talking to his girlfriend. At that point we know that he didn’t know about Zimmerman’s being armed. The gun would have come out after that. And then Martin responded by screaming like a little girl **and** attacking Zimmerman and beating his head against the ground. While Zimmerman was holding a gun on him, which Zimmerman didn’t fire until after the fight had gone on for a while. If I’m Zimmerman and I am holding a gun on someone and he attacks me, I’m gonna shoot his ass. I’m not going to wait until he pounds my head on the ground - the first punch will be interrupted by a bang. Whereas if I am Zimmerman and I am _not_ holding the gun on him, but have it in my waist, then it makes sense that he would have a chance to knock me down and pound my head. If I am Martin and someone is holding me at gunpoint, I am not going to attack him with a bottle of iced tea. I’m going to stand still and do nothing besides wet my pants, in which case there would be no reason that Zimmerman got any cuts on his head or a bloody nose, or I am going to make like a bunny as fast as my Reeboks can carry me, in which case I would be shot in the back at longer range and not the front at close range. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3048 "2012-04-03T22:22:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If I am Martin and someone is holding me at gunpoint, I am not going to attack him with a bottle of iced tea. I’m going to stand still and do nothing besides wet my pants, **in which case there would be no reason that Zimmerman got any cuts on his head or a bloody nose, or I am going to make like a bunny as fast as my Reeboks can carry me** , in which case I would be shot in the back at longer range and not the front at close range. If Martin tried to get away (e.g., “book like a bunny as fast as my Reeboks can carry me”) and Zimmerman wrestled him to the ground, the latter could have bumped his head and bruised his nose quite readily during this scuffle. Once they seperate, Zimmerman pulls his gun out and trains it on his target. Martin is lying down on his back or side and freezes. But he screams at the top of his lungs for help. Pow in the chest. Does this strike you as less plausible than Martin visciously wailing on Zimmerman without provocation? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3049 "2012-04-03T22:37:46Z")
> [@treis](#): > > There’s no obvious place to take shelter in the google satellite view of the area. You can find some views of area in various camera footage. The are some little fences between the town homes that Martin could have crouched behind. He would be practically invisible unless he was under a porch light. I actually checked how dark it was that many minutes after sundown in my back yard and I couldn’t see anything with out my porch light. If Martin hadn’t stepped out to confront Zimmerman, I think it is possible that Zimmerman would have walked past him both ways. Remind me to add not carrying a flashlight to the stupid things Zimmerman did. BTW, it is 8 yards from the fences to the walk way in Google Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3050 "2012-04-03T22:40:12Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If Martin tried to get away (e.g., “book like a bunny as fast as my Reeboks can carry me”) and Zimmerman wrestled him to the ground, the latter could have bumped his head and bruised his nose quite readily during this scuffle. > > Once they seperate, Zimmerman pulls his gun out and trains it on his target. Martin is lying down on his back or side and freezes. But he screams at the top of his lungs for help. Pow in the chest. And yet the eyewitness says when the shots were heard, one man was sitting on top of the other one. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3051 "2012-04-03T22:57:30Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And yet the eyewitness says when the shots were heard, one man was sitting on top of the other one. Who would this be? To my knowledge, no witnesses witnessed the actual shooting. Just shortly before and shortly after. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3052 "2012-04-03T23:01:00Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Who would this be? To my knowledge, no witnesses witnessed the actual shooting. Just shortly before and shortly after. Your knowledge is lacking. > **[Trayvon Martin killing: witness says he saw Zimmerman walk away uninjured](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/30/trayvon-martin-witness-zimmerman-uninjured?newsfeed=true)** > > Account contradicts allegation from Zimmerman's father that Trayvon Martin left his son with injuries including a broken nose A man who says he saw Trayvon Martin shot dead claims that the Florida teenager and his killer, George Zimmerman, were scuffling on the ground at the time with one on top of the other. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3053 "2012-04-03T23:08:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Your knowledge is lacking. > > [Trayvon Martin killing: witness says he saw Zimmerman walk away uninjured | Trayvon Martin | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/30/trayvon-martin-witness-zimmerman-uninjured?newsfeed=true) > > A man who says he saw Trayvon Martin shot dead claims that the Florida teenager and his killer, George Zimmerman, were scuffling on the ground at the time with one on top of the other. Hold up. Are you sure \*this \*is the article you wanted to link us to? I ask because this witness is reporting stuff that makes Zimmerman look like a murderer, not a victim. > [@](#): > > The anonymous man said he reported to police details of what he saw on the evening of 26 February, which included watching the gunman walking away from the fight apparently uninjured. > > It contradicts an allegation from Zimmerman’s father earlier in the day that the unarmed black teenager broke his son’s nose during the incident and also left him with bloody injuries from slamming the man’s head repeatedly on to a concrete pavement.\*\* The eyewitness says he saw no blood and that the entire confrontation took place only on grass.\*\* > > “I saw two men on the ground, one on top of the other. I felt they were scuffling and I heard gunshots which to me were more like pops,” he said in an interview broadcast on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360, his voice disguised to protect his identity. > > "I don’t know if was an echo but it definitely made more than one pop. > " **After the larger man got off there was a boy, obviously now dead, on the ground facing down.** (bolding mine) Well, you’ve convinced me of something. My knowledge _is_ lacking. There is evidence that Zimmerman was on top, not Martin. The hits keep on coming. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3054 "2012-04-03T23:11:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Your knowledge is lacking. > > [Trayvon Martin killing: witness says he saw Zimmerman walk away uninjured | Trayvon Martin | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/30/trayvon-martin-witness-zimmerman-uninjured?newsfeed=true) > > A man who says he saw Trayvon Martin shot dead claims that the Florida teenager and his killer, George Zimmerman, were scuffling on the ground at the time with one on top of the other. Interesting. According to this witness, the larger man was on top: > [@](#): > > "After the larger man got off there was a boy, obviously now dead, on the ground facing down. The larger man had no obvious injuries: > [@](#): > > “He didn’t appear hurt or anything else.” This is also interesting: > [@](#): > > The eyewitness says he saw no blood and that the entire confrontation took place only on grass. Are we to believe all of this eyewitness account, or just the parts that don’t contradict the “Stand Your Ground” narrative? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3055 "2012-04-03T23:26:12Z")
Hehe. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3056 "2012-04-03T23:28:33Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Doesn’t the “and serves no legitimate purpose” give Zimmerman an out? He apparently believed that he was following a potential criminal. Obviously he wasn’t but he didn’t know that. I don’t think legitimacy is to be defined exclusively by the accused. He can claim it, but I think the state can argue that once the people who trained to deal with any potential criminal activity have specifically told you not to do that anymore, you can no longer argue that your doing it is legimate. > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’m pretty sure you’re wrong. The text right in your post says “_and_ repeatedly”. > [@Bricker](#): > > A series of acts, though, means at least two. Following someone on one occasion is not “a series of acts.” > [@Bricker](#): > > You chuckle, but this is a question that’s been asked before. When an overzealous prosecutor wants to charge ten counts of kidnapping for each hour the victim was held hostage, or ten counts of rape for each entry and withdrawal, there has to be some rule established on how to distinguish between a single ongoing act and multiple acts. > > And there is. I agree it’s sticky, but that’s why I underlined the part about it not mattering how short the period of time is - and the legislature is presumed not to include meaningless clauses when crafting laws, so that must have been included for a reason. If getting the jury to convict him for stalking were necessary to convict him of some greater crime in the actual killing itself, making it important and worth fighting for, and I were the prosecutor, I’d argue that Zimmerman _did_ do it repeatedly: once before he was told not to, then again after. There’s your series of two, separated not merely by a tiny interval of time, which would be an incredibly flimsy sell, but by an extremely meaningful event that actually should have prevented the _second_ time from ever happening. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3057 "2012-04-03T23:41:30Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Okay, that’s nice. Still doesn’t prove that Zimmerman would not have pulled out his gun on Martin, though. It really doesn’t. Just like Martin’s hoodie doesn’t prove he was up to no good. It three years in prison isn’t a deterrent in your mind, then obviously there isn’t anything else that will change it. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3058 "2012-04-03T23:45:38Z")
I watched the [Anderson Cooper interview](http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/29/trayvon-martin-witness-breaks-silence/?hpt=ac_t3). At 6:29 you hear this: Anderson Cooper: “You say the shooter was on top?” Witness: “I can’t really say.” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3059 "2012-04-03T23:46:09Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Hold up. Are you sure \*this \*is the article you wanted to link us to? I ask because this witness is reporting stuff that makes Zimmerman look like a murderer, not a victim. It contradicts your fantasies about Zimmerman standing up then shooting Martin. And no, it doesn’t “make Zimmerman look like a murderer”. The witness saw no blood - it was dark, and we have confirmation of Zimmerman bleeding from other sources. > [@](#): > > Well, you’ve convinced me of something. My knowledge _is_ lacking. There is evidence that Zimmerman was on top, not Martin. The hits keep on coming. The witness didn’t see who was on top. He also didn’t see the moment that Zimmerman got up. So, no, that’s no evidence that Zimmerman was on top. But do keep hoping. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3060 "2012-04-03T23:47:53Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Interesting. According to this witness, the larger man was on top The witness says he has no idea who was on top, and he didn’t see the moment Zimmerman got up. So exactly how do you conclude that “the larger man was on top”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=152) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=154)