# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 158
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3141 "2012-04-04T15:15:48Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > It wasn’t a rich area. A lot of the townhomes were rentals. I’d say lower middle class. Once you get into the gated communities with actual guards or your kids go to Lake Mary Schools, then that is a different story. > > It probably isn’t a great idea to knock on strange doors in any neighborhood. Especially one that has a problem with burglaries. I guess rich is relative. To me you don’t have to be in the 1% to be rich, and you’re talking about 1%ers. But anyway, yeah, not knocking on strangers’ doors is not weird. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Scifisam, I suppose you have a cite for your claim about what most people would do? And I suppose that sentence could be an order where there’s a relationship between the sayer and hearer such that noncompliance has consequences, but that’s not the case here. How could I possibly have a cite for that? Are you seriously disputing that most people would follow the advice or orders of a dispatcher - at least when they’re compos mentis, as Zimmerman was? I’m not saying it WAS an order, but that such phrasing is sometimes used as an order. Just an explanation for the ‘misunderstanding’ Bricker was annoyed by. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3142 "2012-04-04T15:22:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You failed to report the charge was subsequently expunged. So not only was he never even found guilty, but the charge was supposedly wiped clean. > > Which raises an interesting side question. Let’s imagine an officer arrests you for an absolutely mistaken reason. You’re standing at the corner, about to go rescue some puppies and feed them to some endangered baby seals, and a guy runs by you, and a cop follows ten seconds later, yelling “Freeze!” at you. You’re arrested, fingerprinted, and booked. > > It takes a day, but it all gets cleared up. The robbery victim says it wasn’t you; the video tape in the store confirms it, the actual robber is caught with the stolen merchandise and makes a full confession. Charges are dropped. You seek an expungement, pointing out that you did absolutely nothing wrong. The state agrees, not opposing your motion. The judge grants your request and orders your record expunged. > > Seven years later, you’re accused of theft, and the newspapers announce, correctly, that you were arrested seven years ago for armed robbery, but that the charges were dropped for lack of evidence. > > How does that scenario sit with you? > > Obviously, I have no idea how close that is to Zimmerman’s actual experience. But I do know that there was never any competent fact-finding that substantiated the claim he shoved an officer. > > I said the same thing, mind you, about Martin’s school reports involving stolen jewelry: In any case, what I red was that he possibly pushed a police officer who was arresting his friend for underage drinking. That never sounded to me like it indicated a pattern of violent behaviour even if the charge hadn’t been expunged. Smoking dope and _possibly_ holding stolen goods for a friend don’t suggest a tendency to violence, either, and it doesn’t add up to Magiver’s really horrible description of the dead boy. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3143 "2012-04-04T15:23:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Zimmerman pulls his gun, Martin tries to get it away, and the gun discharges, killing Martin. Zimmerman gets to his feet, quickly reviews the requirements of SYG, and hits his own head on a nearby tree to give himself at least a little injury. > > In the distance, the sirens grow louder. > > And… scene. > > Hey, just IMHO. I like it. Slightly less plausible than Zimmerman tried to detain Martin, but as or more plausible than the “Somebody’s poisoned the waterhole!”, “Reach for the sky!” narratives. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3144 "2012-04-04T16:10:11Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I guess rich is relative. To me you don’t have to be in the 1% to be rich, and you’re talking about 1%ers. But anyway, yeah, not knocking on strangers’ doors is not weird. %1? I’m talking about the 50%. Twin Trees looks a place some of the people from the factory floor where I used to work would live. Some of them lived in much nicer houses, but usually out in Deltona. If both people in a house hold worked, then you are usually talking 1500sqft on a decent lot. The professional people, like engineers, would be living quite a bit better than that. Of course some of the people, like guys with child support, would living a much more limited lifestyle. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3145 "2012-04-04T16:37:17Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > So where were you going with the letter hypothetical, Bricker? I was trying to find an analogy that you perceived as repeated acts, but could be shown to actually be one single act. Unfortunately, that analogy didn’t work, since you correctly sussed out that it was a single act. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3146 "2012-04-04T16:38:38Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > The charges being dismissed instead of a guilty plea to a reduced charges and the agreed upon alcohol education program? Don’t they have these first-offense diversionary programs in your state? Sure, but those charges wouldn’t be generally eligible for expungement. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3147 "2012-04-04T16:39:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the jewelry found in his possession. [Call it what you like.](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i5eFIX6P0izEGfMjnuEBO9Ra6Wqw?docId=258e35b564b340bdb774d8d3ffb40d50) possession of jewelry in his backpack that he claimed a friend gave him (who he wouldn’t identify). Oh, right, the absolutely-no-proof-of-theft theft. So what we really had was a kid who smoked some weed (commence pearl clutching) and a little bit of graffiti (cue the fainting couch). Hardcore all the way. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3148 "2012-04-04T16:44:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure, but those charges wouldn’t be generally eligible for expungement. Maybe Daddy the former judge pulled some strings. And since we’re speculating, maybe Daddy the former judge had some influence in why Sonny wasn’t arrested. There is some information that Daddy talked to both the police and prosecutors that night, though AFAIK nothing about what was said. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3149 "2012-04-04T16:48:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, we have his girlfriend describing what she heard. Martin initiated the conversation. I’m putting 2 and 2 together. No, you’re adding 2 to X and pretending you know what an unknown variable is. Who spoke first tells us jack squat. > [@](#): > > Of course, I would think the word “moderator” would imply you read posts in their entirety and would have caught the word “IMO”. Here is the post to which I replied, in its entirety: [QUOTE=Magiver] Besides the theft, graffiti, and drugs? The original picture of Martin as a young teenager who looks like he swallowed a Disney movie are contrasted by his most recent image as a 17 year old on suspension. There’s a lot more “street” than the Back Street Boys image originally portrayed. At this point Martin is not exactly on the right track in his life. Given that Martin was seen on top of Zimmerman and that he initiated contact with him, I find it more likely that he sucker punched him first when Zimmerman challenged his reason for being in the neighborhood. [/QUOTE] You state it was “given” that Martin initiated contact. You do not say “IMO, Martin initiated contact.” Also, to be clear, my job as Moderator on this message board is to enforce the board’s rules, primarily in the Game Room but also elsewhere. It is not to make you personally happy with my interpretation of your posts when I am acting as a normal poster. When I (or anyone else) act as a moderator it will be clearly noted as such. If you have problems with the moderation of the board please contact an administrator or start a thread in ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3150 "2012-04-04T16:49:17Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Maybe Daddy the former judge pulled some strings. Zimmerman’s father was not a judge. He was a magistrate in Virginia. In Virginia “magistrate” and “judge” is not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3151 "2012-04-04T16:54:02Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > and a little bit of graffiti (cue the fainting couch). Hardcore all the way. And the “graffiti” was “writing on a school locker with a sharpie.” Kid wasn’t exactly tagging police cars. Proceed with the couch fainting 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3152 "2012-04-04T16:59:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Zimmerman’s father was not a judge. He was a magistrate in Virginia. In Virginia “magistrate” and “judge” is not the same thing. [According to this story](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/04/03/457593/trayvonmartin-family-attorney-questions-robert-zimmerman/), he referred to himself as a judge – > [@](#): > > No one knew I was a retired magistrate judge. I didn’t mention it to the police. I didn’t mention it to the state attorney’s office. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3153 "2012-04-04T17:04:33Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > No, you’re adding 2 to X and pretending you know what an unknown variable is. Who spoke first tells us jack squat. Not so! Who spoke first tells us… who spoke first. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3154 "2012-04-04T17:08:33Z")
This [CNN article](http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20/911-calls-paint-picture-of-chaos-after-florida-teen-is-shot/) places the first two 911 calls being placed at 7:16 pm. The shot is heard 45 seconds into the first call and 15 seconds into the second call. That puts the gunshot occurring at 19:17:00, plus or minus 15 seconds. 19:09:34 GZ calls police. 19:11:41 GZ says TM running. GZ gets out and follows. 19:12:?? TM receives call from girlfriend. This call lasts “about 4 minutes.” 19:13:37 GZ call to police ends. 19:16:15 (+/- 15 seconds) First 911 call on which screams and calls for help are heard. 19:17:00 (+/- 15 seconds) Gunshot 19:17:11 Officer Smith arrives “on scene.” ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3155 "2012-04-04T17:21:17Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > And the “graffiti” was “writing on a school locker with a sharpie.” Kid wasn’t exactly tagging police cars. Proceed with the couch fainting 🙂 Yeah, but everybody knows sharpie’s are gateway graffiti tools. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3156 "2012-04-04T17:33:17Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > [According to this story](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/04/03/457593/trayvonmartin-family-attorney-questions-robert-zimmerman/), he referred to himself as a judge – [http://www.stellyvirginialaw.com/faqs/what-does-a-magistrate-do.cfm](http://www.stellyvirginialaw.com/faqs/what-does-a-magistrate-do.cfm) A: A magistrate is a judicial officer, but in the state system, is not a judge. However, in the federal system there are magistrate judges who do hear civil and criminal cases from time to time if the defendant agrees. The magistrate most often comes into the picture in criminal cases when an arrest has been made, or when a warrant of arrest is sought by law enforcement officers or private citizens. If a warrantless arrest has been made, as soon as practicable after an arrest is completed, the arresting officer is required to bring the accused before a magistrate. The magistrate will review the evidence presented by the arresting officer and make a probable cause determination of whether there is sufficient evidence to sustain the arrest. If the magistrate believes there is sufficient evidence for the arrest, he will issue a warrant of arrest, and either set a bail, or hold over the accused without bail until a judge can set the bail. In both the federal and state criminal justice systems, magistrates can issue search warrants. In this regard, the officer seeking a search warrant must appear before the magistrate and swear under oath to facts and circumstances that he believes justifies the issuance of the warrant to search a place, or the person designated in the application. If the magistrate determines there is probable cause based on this evidence to believe that evidence of a crime or contraband will be discovered by the search, he can issue the warrant. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3157 "2012-04-04T17:41:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure, but those charges wouldn’t be generally eligible for expungement. That’s my fault for mis-reading my own cite. The original charge was “resisting arrest with violence” which was later reduceed to “resisting arrest without violence” and then waived when he entered the alcohol education program. So, no conviction, and therefore expungement was a fairly routine matter (Florida Expungement cite below.) I still see this as special treatment for first-time offenders although it could have been lack of evidence. I never thought he wailed on a cop but rather lost his cool and got in to a scuffle. > **[Expungement](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expungement)** > > In the common law legal system, an expungement or expunction proceeding, is a type of lawsuit in which an individual who has been arrested for or convicted of a crime seeks that the records of that earlier process be sealed or destroyed, making the records nonexistent or unavailable to the general public. If successful, the records are said to be "expunged". Black's Law Dictionary defines "expungement of record" as the "Process by which record of criminal conviction is destroyed or sealed from t... ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3158 "2012-04-04T18:01:22Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Maybe Daddy the former judge pulled some strings. And since we’re speculating, maybe Daddy the former judge had some influence in why Sonny wasn’t arrested. There is some information that Daddy talked to both the police and prosecutors that night, though AFAIK nothing about what was said. No, ever since Zimmerman’s father realized his son was a closeted homosexual, he’s been loathe to help him. Zero chance of that happening. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3159 "2012-04-04T18:05:00Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Maybe Daddy the former judge pulled some strings. And since we’re speculating, maybe Daddy the former judge had some influence in why Sonny wasn’t arrested. There is some information that Daddy talked to both the police and prosecutors that night, though AFAIK nothing about what was said. Is there any evidence that Robert Zimmerman had any strings? I have been doing google searches on Robert Zimmerman in Sanford Florida prior to Feb 26 and coming up empty. If he was involved in any community organizations or anything I would expect to get some hits. It is hard to sort out the pages that don’t have the correct time stamp. My uncle used to have to bail my cousin out of jams all the time, but my uncle was a Captain at the fire department with tons of local connections. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3160 "2012-04-04T18:19:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.stellyvirginialaw.com/faqs/what-does-a-magistrate-do.cfm](http://www.stellyvirginialaw.com/faqs/what-does-a-magistrate-do.cfm) > > A: A magistrate is a judicial officer, but in the state system, is not a judge. However, in the federal system there are magistrate judges who do hear civil and criminal cases from time to time if the defendant agrees. > > The magistrate most often comes into the picture in criminal cases when an arrest has been made, or when a warrant of arrest is sought by law enforcement officers or private citizens. > > If a warrantless arrest has been made, as soon as practicable after an arrest is completed, the arresting officer is required to bring the accused before a magistrate. The magistrate will review the evidence presented by the arresting officer and make a probable cause determination of whether there is sufficient evidence to sustain the arrest. If the magistrate believes there is sufficient evidence for the arrest, he will issue a warrant of arrest, and either set a bail, or hold over the accused without bail until a judge can set the bail. > > In both the federal and state criminal justice systems, magistrates can issue search warrants. In this regard, the officer seeking a search warrant must appear before the magistrate and swear under oath to facts and circumstances that he believes justifies the issuance of the warrant to search a place, or the person designated in the application. If the magistrate determines there is probable cause based on this evidence to believe that evidence of a crime or contraband will be discovered by the search, he can issue the warrant. So what? Maybe he wasn’t a judge. Maybe he was a particlar type of judge with lesser powers than “real” judges. But he called himself a judge, maybe just because he likes the sound of it better or it makes him feel more important. If he was trying to curry any favors in Sanford, and had to choose a self-descriptive term, I’d guess “judge” would be it. That’s not to say he did so, but this thread is crazy with speculation, and I wanna play too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=157) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=159)