# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 161
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3201 "2012-04-04T23:56:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In Virginia, a magistrate does not need to be a lawyer, or have a law degree. In fact, until 1985, magistrates did not have to have a high school diploma. It wasn’t until 2008 that magistrates were required to have a bachelor’s degree, and extant magistrates without a degree were grandfathered in. Magistrates may not preside at trials or preliminary hearings. They can issue arrest and search warrants, make initial bail determinations, and marry people. Coincidentially, Shadwick here was a Florida case, fn. 12 gives a list of states and if they determine a Magistrate is interchangeable with Judicial Officer. [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=407&invol=345](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=407&invol=345) Before I came across Shadwick, which was many many years ago, I always thought a Judge had to issue an arrest warrant, period. I know the SC has interchanged Magistrate with Judge, but never thought it may include even a Clerk of court. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3202 "2012-04-05T01:53:55Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > No, no. It is only our strong moral character keeps us in line and out of prison. 😃 Well, yeah us. But I was talking about the rest of 'em ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3203 "2012-04-05T02:14:28Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I can’t help but notice that when you parse it out they only seem to claim that Zimmerman family is in the same **building** , but they seem to want to imply that Robert Zimmerman was in the same **room**. As has already been pointed out, even if he was, surely Zimmerman’s right to legal counsel would include the right to consult with his father. Being a suspect in a criminal investigation is not a closed book exam. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3204 "2012-04-05T02:20:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What are you talking about?? We loves us some hearsay, here! The more hearsier, the better. You dudes have finally driven **Bricker** off the deep end with the thread. :eek:sigh, I knew him when…😛 ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3205 "2012-04-05T02:43:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In fact, until 1985, magistrates did not have to have a high school diploma. Fancy that. Kinda reminds me of receivers here in Cali…not only do they not need a diploma in order to be court receivers and handed the keys to everything of value belonging to a litigant, they don’t even have to be able to read and write. In fact, a convicted felon would find that no legal barrier to becoming a court appointed receiver with all the power that brings. While my sister had to complete 300 hours of training and pass both a written and practical test in order to pay hundreds of dollars for a license that would permit her to paint fingernails. The world is just wacky, I tell ya. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3206 "2012-04-05T03:13:47Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > %1? I’m talking about the 50%. Twin Trees looks a place some of the people from the factory floor where I used to work would live. Some of them lived in much nicer houses, but usually out in Deltona. If both people in a house hold worked, then you are usually talking 1500sqft on a decent lot. The professional people, like engineers, would be living quite a bit better than that. > > Of course some of the people, like guys with child support, would living a much more limited lifestyle. This is what I meant by the 1% - the people you were describing as rich: > [@](#): > > Once you get into the gated communities with actual guards or your kids go to Lake Mary Schools, then that is a different story. That definitely sounds like 1%ers to me, and I wouldn’t only use the word ‘rich’ to describe the super-rich. Rich probably was the wrong word to use for that estate, though, I agree. I get the impression that Martin and his family are less well-off than the people who live on that estate (inc. Martin’s Dad’s GF), so it might have seemed rich to him - that’s where I was coming from. But anyway, that’s a tangent. Them being strangers to him is more significant. Also, there was that case cited earlier in the thread of a teenager - an exchange student - being shot dead for knocking on someone’s door (on Halloween) and the shooter getting off due to the state’s (Texas, IIRC) Castle doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3207 "2012-04-05T04:58:43Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > “IMO” doesn’t appear anywhere in your post. You simply state as fact that Martin initiated the contact. That is the bullshit part. post 3114: “I stand by my earlier posts that challenged those who didn’t think there was a legal challenge to be made against Zimmerman. Martin’s recent acts of youthful stupidity doesn’t change anything of what I said in those posts but it also doesn’t negate the likelihood that he instigated a beat down. I’m not saying he did it, I’m saying (IMO) there’s a better than 50% chance he started it based on what has come to light. I think he went off on Zimmerman when he was verbally challenged for being in the neighborhood”. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3208 "2012-04-05T05:11:24Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Oh, right, the absolutely-no-proof-of-theft theft. So what we really had was a kid who smoked some weed (commence pearl clutching) and a little bit of graffiti (cue the fainting couch). Hardcore all the way. Well some of us made it through school without getting suspended for truancy, drugs and theft. If you’re suggesting that’s the norm now or that it isn’t an indication of less-than-stellar efforts on Martin then make the case. From my experience, people who steal or damage property with graffiti don’t care about others. It doesn’t mean he’s Charles Manson. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3209 "2012-04-05T05:43:03Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You state it was “given” that Martin initiated contact. You do not say “IMO, Martin initiated contact.” That wasn’t an opinion, it was based on what his girlfriend stated. We’ve been over this. Martin engaged Zimmerman first in conversation. Zimmerman replied. A scuffle ensues. It’s my opinion that Martin reacted to being challenged for being in the neighborhood. If Zimmerman reacted to what Martin said then I would say he threw the first punch. It also makes more sense that for Martin to get the upper hand on Zimmerman he would have had to sucker punch him to bring him down. This is opinion. In court, all that’s going to count is that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and injuries ensued sufficient to believe that a life threatening situation existed. Getting one’s head pounded into cement poses such a threat. The only mitigating circumstance that can harm Zimmerman would be to prove that he instigated the fight. > [@RickJay](#): > > Also, to be clear, my job as Moderator on this message board is to enforce the board’s rules, primarily in the Game Room but also elsewhere. It is not to make you personally happy with my interpretation of your posts when I am acting as a normal poster. When I (or anyone else) act as a moderator it will be clearly noted as such. If you have problems with the moderation of the board please contact an administrator or start a thread in ATMB. I’m clear about what a Moderator does. I realize there is no specific requirement that a Moderator take the high road but one would hope. Obviously it bothered you to be called on it. Start your own thread if you don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3210 "2012-04-05T06:17:33Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > This is just ridiculous. Zimmerman didn’t know any of these things when he shot Martin. None of them contributed to him looking suspicious. Suspension from school was the ultimate cause for him being in the neighborhood, but Zimmerman didn’t know this. From what we know, Martin didn’t show any poor judgment in his activities that night. He was exactly where he was supposed to be, doing exactly what he had every right to do. You’re mixing arguments here. I pointed out Martin’s flaws in the perspective that he wasn’t the squeaky clean kid initially portrayed and capable of starting a fight if he thinks he’s being dissed. For argument’s sake we’ll say he was doing what he had every right to do which gives rise to my opinion that he reacted to being challenged. It doesn’t negate the fact that he may have acted in a suspicious manner or that he was actually casing houses to rob. I’ve had the police called on me multiple times because someone thought what I was doing looked suspicious. That’s how crimes are stopped. > [@monstro](#): > > Seriously. If Martin had been a sixty-year-old lady, everyone would be cheering if she’d given a gun looming in the darkness a good punch in the nose. We’d all be saying, “Hell, yeah, she was scared! It’s dark, Zimmerman could have been a serial killer/rapist/crazed man, and instincts kick in when you are in such a situation!” We wouldn’t be examining her past and using youthful indiscretions against her. Ooh, looky here! Granny got suspended from Catholic school for sassing the nun and smoking in the girl’s bathroom! She’s a bad granny, obviously! While Martin can certainly view Zimmerman as “creepy guy stalking him” Zimmerman can just as easily view Martin as “kid acting suspicious”. The time to sort it out, and the method to sort it out is through communication and not violence. I’ve been in both of their shoes before. I’ve been challenged in my own neighborhood by watch groups. A dialogue ensued and both parties moved on. Now I’ve never actively challenged anyone but I’ve stopped 4 burglaries by watching what goes on around me. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to pick up on suspicious activity. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3211 "2012-04-05T06:23:16Z")
I still don’t see any greater likelihood of Martin sucker punching Zimmerman after being asked what he was doing in the neighborhood. Here is an equally, if not more, likely scenario: Z: What are you doing here? M: None of your fucking business (Martin maneuvers away from Zimmerman, who follows and/or grabs him) Z: You’re not going anywhere, the cops are on their way Scuffle begins. If there is no witness to this part of the story, then by default Zimmerman’s version triumphs in this He Said/He Dead situation. Unless he is caught in a lie or recounts it differently in repeated interrogations. ETA: I’ve never bought the blammo punch in response to Zimmerman’s question. The punch is far more likely a response to a physical encounter. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3212 "2012-04-05T12:43:33Z")
But Martin once wrote “WTF” on a locker in Sharpie. He’s an obvious sociopath; he just doesn’t care about others. He must have punched Zimmerman for no reason but misanthropy. There’s no way the guy who was fired from a security job for being to aggressive, or who once assaulted a cop, and had to attend anger management classes as a result could ever be at fault in this situation. After all, he’s a law-abiding gun owner. They’re always cool. Did I get that right, Magiver? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3213 "2012-04-05T13:07:28Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > As has already been pointed out, even if he was, surely Zimmerman’s right to legal counsel would include the right to consult with his father. Being a suspect in a criminal investigation is not a closed book exam. So what you are saying is that Crump’s letter to the Department of Justice is just a publicity stunt? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3214 "2012-04-05T13:19:46Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > What I really want to know is when witll the _I Law & Order_ Episode inspired by these events air. And yes I know it is of the air but they will likely bring it back for one more special episode…maybe. Ha! Law and Order: SVU is still on the air! My oral copulation story is looking better and better. Naturally, I’d want a producer credit. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3215 "2012-04-05T13:31:06Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > This is what I meant by the 1% - the people you were describing as rich: > > That definitely sounds like 1%ers to me, and I wouldn’t only use the word ‘rich’ to describe the super-rich. In the U.S. 1% is about 350k. The production workers I talk about will top out at about 30k and the engineer might be making more than 100k. [http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/top-1-percent-earn.aspx](http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/top-1-percent-earn.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3216 "2012-04-05T13:33:02Z")
I’m curious about the right to counsel. Does it extend to anyone or must it be a lawyer? If my lawyer shows up with my dad, is that cool? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3217 "2012-04-05T14:12:49Z")
There is a nice article about probable cause in the Sentinel today. [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-04/news/os-trayvon-martin-probable-cause-20120404\_1\_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-standards-arrest](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-04/news/os-trayvon-martin-probable-cause-20120404_1_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-standards-arrest) She describes the constant tension between police officers and prosecutors. The police officers want to make arrests and prosecutors want to make sure that they have probable cause, because otherwise the suspect will be released within 24 hours. If they do file charges, they have to bring the suspect to trial within 175 days. This makes prosecutors reluctant to file charges until they have enough evidence for a conviction. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3218 "2012-04-05T14:56:45Z")
CNN Enhances Zimmerman 911 Call Again — And Reporter Now Doubts Racial Slur Used [http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-enhances-zimmerman-911-call-again-and-reporter-now-doubts-racial-slur-used/](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-enhances-zimmerman-911-call-again-and-reporter-now-doubts-racial-slur-used/) Now it does sound less like that racial slur. … From listening in this room, and this is a state-of-the-art room, it doesn’t sound like that slur anymore. It sounds like … we‘re hearing the swear word at first and then the word ’cold.’ And the reason some say that would be relevant, is because it was unseasonably cold in Florida that night and raining.” =============================== There goes the only hope Holder has to make this a federal case. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3219 "2012-04-05T16:40:14Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > I’m curious about the right to counsel. Does it extend to anyone or must it be a lawyer? If my lawyer shows up with my dad, is that cool? It must be a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3220 "2012-04-05T17:09:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > CNN Enhances Zimmerman 911 Call Again — And Reporter Now Doubts Racial Slur Used > > [http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-enhances-zimmerman-911-call-again-and-reporter-now-doubts-racial-slur-used/](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-enhances-zimmerman-911-call-again-and-reporter-now-doubts-racial-slur-used/) > > Now it does sound less like that racial slur. … From listening in this room, and this is a state-of-the-art room, it doesn’t sound like that slur anymore. It sounds like … we‘re hearing the swear word at first and then the word ’cold.’ And the reason some say that would be relevant, is because it was unseasonably cold in Florida that night and raining.” > > =============================== > > There goes the only hope Holder has to make this a federal case. Sounds even more like “punks” to me. :shrug: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=160) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=162)