# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 164
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3261 "2012-04-06T18:50:34Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > For all you know she tried to, but the cops didn’t answer the phone. I love how you frame the problem as though the delay in getting her statement is because of what _she_ did or didn’t do. Why would she call Trayvon’s cell phone after she found out he was dead that next day? She attended his funeral on March 3rd. Presumably she found out he was dead before going to his funeral. The Fox Station was interviewing Martin’s father the next day. You don’t thing it would get some coverage in Miami, even if her friends didn’t tell her? She heard him talking to the guy that killed him. That doesn’t rate a call to the police? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3262 "2012-04-06T19:03:35Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > It would be easy for her to call the Miami police and say was talking to Trayvon Martin on her cell phone just before he died. You know what? It would have been even easier for the cops to call _her_. Especially since that is their _jobs_. The fact that they didn’t even know of her existence until weeks later can not possibly be her fault when they have all the world’s tools at their disposal to figure that out. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3263 "2012-04-06T19:06:16Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > That doesn’t rate a call to the police? You don’t know that she didn’t call the police. This is also a 16 year-old girl. Why are you faulting a kid, but not adults who are paid to track witnesses down and extract information out of them? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3264 "2012-04-06T19:22:20Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You know what? It would have been even easier for the cops to call _her_. Especially since that is their _jobs_. The fact that they didn’t even know of her existence until weeks later can not possibly be her fault when they have all the world’s tools at their disposal to figure that out. Do you have a cite that the police found Martin’s phone? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3265 "2012-04-06T19:47:41Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You know what? It would have been even easier for the cops to call _her_. Especially since that is their _jobs_. The fact that they didn’t even know of her existence until weeks later can not possibly be her fault when they have all the world’s tools at their disposal to figure that out. How were the police supposed to know Martin was talking to he just before he died? In any case that doesn’t absolve her of responsibility for not reporting the this information to police and it certainly doesn’t absolve Crump of not reporting that when she talked to him on March 3rd. Police are not supposed to be omniscient and citizens are supposed to help them. The trouble is that her testimony is not only stale but since Crump is in the loop it is also suspect. Things like this could let Zimmerman walk. You don’t think things like this won’t come up during cross examination. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3266 "2012-04-06T20:06:04Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > The distinctions you’re drawing escape me, since juries are presented with evidence of all kinds, including lies told by witnesses, which hardly qualify as “facts”. Even including the truth as each witness understands it may not be consistent, so the jury has to decide what “the truth” most likely is and base their verdict on it. Am I misunderstanding you? Does the jury find the truth? Or does the jury find the truth in what the prosecution presents? I am reading your posts as suggesting the former. If that is the case I think there is a chance at a conviction. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3267 "2012-04-06T20:18:48Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You know what? It would have been even easier for the cops to call _her_. I’m curious about this. How so? She looks up Sanford PD online and dials. Sandford PD either has to cold call every number in Martin’s phone and announce who they are and why they are calling, likely poisoning well as anyone who thinks funny business is afoot is going to clam up and not talk to the police. Or it is my understanding that the Sandford PD has to have suspicion that Martin was on the phone at the time making the any call crucial evidence, then they have to get [warrant or subpoena\*](http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1197918,00.html) to collect the phone records. \*They could skip this step and buy the records from a data broker, but the legality of this practice is highly questionable. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3268 "2012-04-06T20:33:14Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > I’m curious about this. How so? > > She looks up Sanford PD online and dials. > > Sandford PD either has to cold call every number in Martin’s phone and announce who they are and why they are calling, likely poisoning well as anyone who thinks funny business is afoot is going to clam up and not talk to the police. Or it is my understanding that the Sandford PD has to have suspicion that Martin was on the phone at the time making the any call crucial evidence, then they have to get [warrant or subpoena\*](http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1197918,00.html) to collect the phone records. What I remember seeing about this is that Martin’s phone was locked. The police had it in their custody but could not unlock it. That’s why there is a 911 call registered one (or 2?) days after the incident on Trayvon’s phone - someone realized that when the phone is locked, the emergency call-outs are still allowed - this way the police could at least find out what phone number it was. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3269 "2012-04-06T21:06:05Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Sandford PD either has to cold call every number in Martin’s phone and announce who they are and why they are calling, likely poisoning well as anyone who thinks funny business is afoot is going to clam up and not talk to the police. You must not have a cell phone if youre saying this. To find the number of the last person dialed is ludicrously easy. Through some miraculous feat of extreme detective sleuthing, the phone logs for Martin were obtained by someone involved in the investigation days after Sandford threw their hands up in the air hopelessly. Do you really think something like these records would have been too difficult to procure by the cops? If someone is dead, you don’t have to worry about obtaining warrants for them. **Joel** , according to Crump, the girl had bit of a nervous breakdown when she found out her bf was dead. Maybe you should factor that into your assignment of blame and castigation, since you seem so reluctant to point fingers at the cops. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3270 "2012-04-06T21:06:18Z")
Well some voice recognition experts have weighed in and apparently my earlier skepticism about Owen’s matching is suspect is correct. My BS detector is apparently in working order. [http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/06/voice-forensics-experts-cast-doubt-on-orlando-sentinel-analysis-of-trayvon-martin-911-tape/](http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/06/voice-forensics-experts-cast-doubt-on-orlando-sentinel-analysis-of-trayvon-martin-911-tape/) > [@](#): > > Dr. James Wayman, a San Jose State University expert in the field of speech science, told The Daily Caller that he questions the grounds on which Owen based his analysis. > > Wayman also said he would be willing to testify against the admissibility of Owen’s findings on the grounds that they don’t meet the criteria required for evidence in federal courts. > > “There is no history of, or data on, the comparison of a questioned scream to a known speech sample,” Wayman said. > > The problem, he said, is that the two voice samples were recorded in difficult acoustic conditions over different cell phones. > [@](#): > > Dr. Philip Rose of the Australian National University told TheDC that scientific experts refer to Primeau’s method as “naïve voice recognition.” His influential 2002 book Forensic Speaker Identification draws a major distinction between naïve and “technical forensics” voice recognition. > > “Naïve voice recognition is so prone to error that it is acknowledged that it is worthless as evidence,” Rose said via email. Since I’ve listened to the recording carefully and it sounds like two different people to me, I’m even more skeptical. I don’t buy that they were fighting on the ground for a minutes and only one of them shouted anything . ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3271 "2012-04-06T21:08:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Okay, so how do you know what happened next? You seem to take for granted that Martin then attacked Zimmerman - in fact, you’re now taking it for granted that Martin “approached” Zimmerman. Unless you are privy to evidence you’re not sharing with the group, you know neither of those things. > > We do know for a fact that Zimmerman was following Martin at some point. That we’re sure of. How that leads to the conclusion that Martin was following Zimmerman and attacked him is not very clear. Yes, we know Zimmerman was following Martin. Martin was the first to initiate the conversation asking why Zimmerman was following him. He was answered with a question that both answers his question and challenges his reason for being there. Martin has every right to be there or anywhere else. It’s offensive on some level to be asked this. More so to a black person who is culturally told that the world is against him because of the color of his skin. Like Martin, I’ve been challenged for walking around my neighborhood at night. It’s insulting but I have the presence of mind to understand that my neighbors are trying to stem the tide of crime. They are looking out for my best interests. Martin didn’t even have that tiny thread to cling to. He didn’t live there. The reason I think Martin struck first is that he was a 17 year old kid who is statistically more likely to act without thinking and he had just been insulted on a perceived racial level. Also, if Zimmerman struck him first he would have knocked Martin silly with the first punch with the extra 100 lbs. I’ve been on the receiving end of that extra weight and it’s amazing how much damage someone can do with the extra mass. Once on the ground, Zimmerman can’t throw his weight around. It only takes a few seconds to pound someone’s head into a state of fear for one’s life. If Zimmerman attacked Martin he would have done so knowing the police were very close to arriving. Beating up a kid, regardless of whether or not he was caught in the middle of stealing, has consequences as an adult. I think you have 2 people making the wrong assumption about the other and both acted on that. In Zimmerman’s case, he thought he was getting the snot kicked out of him by a drugged out thief. Martin would be insulted by someone he deems a racist. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3272 "2012-04-06T21:26:26Z")
If you scroll about halfway down on [this page](http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T39cvdUxM2s), you can see where someone placed a 911 call from Martin’s phone 5 days after the shooting. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3273 "2012-04-06T21:28:22Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > **Joel** , according to Crump, the girl had bit of a nervous breakdown when she found out her bf was dead. Maybe you should factor that into your assignment of blame and castigation, since you seem so reluctant to point fingers at the cops. Do you expect me to believe Crump? The girl is just stupid, but Crump is an officer of the court. I concede that Crump has over 90% of the responsibility, but if DeeDee didn’t know what to do, she should have asked her parents. If Zimmerman walks, it may be Crump’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3274 "2012-04-06T21:34:15Z")
> [@newme](#): > > If you scroll about halfway down on [this page](http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T39cvdUxM2s), you can see where someone placed a 911 call from Martin’s phone 5 days after the shooting. See my post above. The only reason to place a 911 call from Martin’s phone is if the phone is locked to figure out what the phone’s number is, since emergency calls can be made from locked phones. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3275 "2012-04-06T21:39:42Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Do you expect me to believe Crump? Why wouldn’t you? You seem to believe the guy who shot an unarmed kid and yet who insists he didn’t brandish his weapon appropriately. You give the cops the benefit of the doubt even though their incompetency is so bad we have evidence of it in that surveillance video (cop wears no PPE when searching Z despite all that copius invisible blood on his clothes…forget about evidence integrity, what about disease prevention?) So what makes Crump so untrustworthy to you? You call the gf stupid and you claim Martin’s lawyer has acted unethical, while defending a potential murderer and cops who have bungled things so badly he may end up walking. Thanks for letting your bias hang long and free. Now I can stop reading your ill-thought arguments. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3276 "2012-04-06T21:43:31Z")
> [@newme](#): > > If you scroll about halfway down on [this page](http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T39cvdUxM2s), you can see where someone placed a 911 call from Martin’s phone 5 days after the shooting. This makes the cops look even worse. They obviously did not try to use his phone to ID him by calling 911. They apparently just sat on this piece of evidence for 5 days like idiots. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3277 "2012-04-06T21:52:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > See my post above. The only reason to place a 911 call from Martin’s phone is if the phone is locked to figure out what the phone’s number is, since emergency calls can be made from locked phones. Five days later Sanford PD still hadn’t unlocked the phone? A small department like Sanford might not have a geek on staff, but you would think they would have a guy they can call. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3278 "2012-04-06T21:56:08Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Five days later Sanford PD still hadn’t unlocked the phone? A small department like Sanford might not have a geek on staff, but you would think they would have a guy they can call. I guess you never dealt with police investigations before. They already knew who Trayvon was on day 2, so there was no urgency there. And I am a geek and I know of no method to unlock a password-protected phone other than taking it to the service provider (or trying to guess the password). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3279 "2012-04-06T21:57:11Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > This makes the cops look even worse. They obviously did not try to use his phone to ID him by calling 911. They apparently just sat on this piece of evidence for 5 days like idiots. They ID-ed him the day after the incident. Why would they need the phone to do it? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3280 "2012-04-06T22:04:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They ID-ed him the day after the incident. Why would they need the phone to do it? Gee I dunno. So they would know who he was sooner? How did they find out who he was? I suspect it wasn’t until his dad reported him missing that these geniuses connected the dots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=163) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=165)