# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 169
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3361 "2012-04-07T21:03:33Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If it was Zimmerman who was bringing it up, you’d be right. Was it? > > . Poor Zimmy. He can’t seem to catch a break. His dad goes around telling people that Martin said things that make him sound like a comic book villain, but we’re told not to listen to him because he’s not George. His brother also says things, but we’re chided if we even act like this is what George is claiming went down. Now it’s his lawyers turn to say things that we should not take at face value. Which really should make us wonder what purpose they serve if they don’t represent the views of their client, but whatever. With people always putting words in Zimmerman’s mouth without his permission, it’s no wonder he flipped out and shot someone dead for no good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3362 "2012-04-07T21:19:29Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > With people always putting words in Zimmerman’s mouth without his permission, it’s no wonder he flipped out and shot someone dead for no good reason. I am glad you managed to find some hilarity in the situation. I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3363 "2012-04-07T21:27:39Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > It was mentioned it was t-mobile in multiple places and they actually show part of his bill showing the call from his girl friend. A prepaid account is unlikely based on the number of hours he spend talking to his girl friend that weekend. > > [http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht\_trayvon\_martin\_phone\_call\_dm\_120320\_main.jpg](http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_trayvon_martin_phone_call_dm_120320_main.jpg) Thanks for the link, I missed all that somehow. You can get unlimited talk and text for $50/month from t-mobile, but I have no idea what he had. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3364 "2012-04-07T22:52:55Z")
I just realized after all this talk about Martin’s cell phone that if he had an voice mail greeting it should be on t-mobiles computers. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3365 "2012-04-08T05:47:27Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > This is old. Please get new material already. Sorry, I know my asking you to substantiate every factual claim you make is not nearly as fun – or varied – as your ability to find constant new material by making stuff up, but just as this forum allows you your opinion, so too does it allow me mine, and my opinion is that your opinions (a) are slanted wholly towards the idea that Zimmerman is guilty and (b) are filled with supposition as opposed to being strongly grounded in fact. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3366 "2012-04-08T05:55:12Z")
> [@PotLuck](#): > > That’s what I found out using a telephone and curiosity, and it took less than ten minutes. I would presume that it would occur to a police department investigating a shooting death would make even more of an effort that I just did. I’m just wondering: did they? I have no idea. But to claim definitively that they did not make such an effort is impossible. Unless you know that Martin had a Blackberry with an unencrypted memory card, of course. Or if you know that whatever phone he did have was vulnerable to some hack r exploit. If you don’t know that, how does anyone claim so confidently the police were incompetent on the phone issue? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3367 "2012-04-08T06:40:11Z")
Those of who don’t find Zimmerman’s story believable should actually be encouraged by the actions of the lead investigator. The stupid phone be damned. It was, after all, Chief Lee and the original SA who put the kibosh on bringing charges. Going forward, it is going to be lead homicide detective Serinos work that is going to matter most to the special prosecutor’s investigation. Hopefully his work has been thorough. Chief Lee is ultimately responsible for any mistakes made early on, and none of that may matter at all. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3368 "2012-04-08T06:50:59Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I also just Googled and it took a few seconds to not only find out that 911 can be called without unlocking your phone, but found that all you then need to do is call the service provider and ask for a new PUK code and you can unlock the phone. This is maybe ten minutes’ work including being on hold, and it’s really not high-tech. You now understand that “unlock” in your statement does not refer to the kind of unlocking at issue here, yes? PUK code, again, is a means to unlock the SIM card. Not to unlock the phone apps and data stored therein. Is everyone reading this clear on the distinction? ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3369 "2012-04-08T10:48:19Z")
> [@PotLuck](#): > > That’s what I found out using a telephone and curiosity, and it took less than ten minutes. I would presume that it would occur to a police department investigating a shooting death would make even more of an effort that I just did. I’m just wondering: did they? > [@Bricker](#): > > I have no idea. > > But to claim definitively that they did not make such an effort is impossible. > > Unless you know that Martin had a Blackberry with an unencrypted memory card, of course. Or if you know that whatever phone he did have was vulnerable to some hack r exploit. > > If you don’t know that, how does anyone claim so confidently the police were incompetent on the phone issue? _Of course_ to claim definitively that they did not make such an effort is impossible; that’s why I haven’t done it. Nor do I know what kind of phone Martin had; I said so in my post. I don’t know many ways I have to say that I’m **wondering** if the Sanford PD attempted to access Martin’s phone for evidence. It’s rumination, not accusation. You asked a straight up, if somewhat snide, question: “Ok, so explain exactly what the police should have done to unlock the phone, please. You know, if they had been trying hard.” My post was an ‘NCIS’-free example of where _I_ would have started. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3370 "2012-04-08T13:00:52Z")
I’m guessing I’m scratching my head over this because it wasn’t a very high-tech solution they came up. They didn’t have to bring in a crack team to answer the question “Who’s phone is this?!” They fixed the problem by doing something that a lot of non-technical people already know to do. No, I don’t know how much they struggled with it. Maybe they burnt the midnight oil for five straight days. Even so, struggling doesn’t necessarily earn you a scoobie snack. If the delay doesn’t show laziness, it shows lack of competency to operate basic technology of the 21st century. Neither is good. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3371 "2012-04-08T13:09:03Z")
You’re assuming they didn’t get the number from Martin’s dad when they talked to him. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3372 "2012-04-08T13:50:45Z")
> [@PotLuck](#): > > _Of course_ to claim definitively that they did not make such an effort is impossible; that’s why I haven’t done it. Nor do I know what kind of phone Martin had; I said so in my post. I don’t know many ways I have to say that I’m **wondering** if the Sanford PD attempted to access Martin’s phone for evidence. It’s rumination, not accusation. oh. Well, then, me too: > [@](#): > > If you don’t know that, how does anyone claim so confidently the police were incompetent on the phone issue? See? Just a question. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3373 "2012-04-08T13:51:08Z")
> [@treis](#): > > You’re assuming they didn’t get the number from Martin’s dad when they talked to him. So are we to conclude the call to 911 was to report an emergency in the evidence locker? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3374 "2012-04-08T14:13:19Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’m guessing I’m scratching my head over this because it wasn’t a very high-tech solution they came up. They didn’t have to bring in a crack team to answer the question “Who’s phone is this?!” They fixed the problem by doing something that a lot of non-technical people already know to do. > > No, I don’t know how much they struggled with it. Maybe they burnt the midnight oil for five straight days. Even so, struggling doesn’t necessarily earn you a scoobie snack. If the delay doesn’t show laziness, it shows lack of competency to operate basic technology of the 21st century. Neither is good. But since you can’t really point at any specific prejudice the investigation suffered, it seems at least plausible that it wasn’t laziness so much as triage… they did not spend time on low-yield work. What would they have gotten if they had quickly gotten the phone number? What did they do instead? I don’t know. I am perfectly prepared to concede that they might have tossed the phone in an evidence bag without a second thought, if I learned it was so, since I don’t know otherwise. But I don’t declare it without knowing. And I do the same thing when people make confident assertions about Martin on thin or non-existent grounds, like the so-called “stolen jewelry” with no putative owner, no provenance, and no admission, but somehow “proof” that Martin was a thief-in-training. You, so far as I can tell, have consistently argued for factual theories that inculpate Zimmerman and the Sanford police, and never for factual theories that inculpate Martin. You have consistently embraced scenarios that exonerate Martin of any wrongdoing. Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3375 "2012-04-08T14:19:05Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So are we to conclude the call to 911 was to report an emergency in the evidence locker? No, but if they got the number from Martin’s dad, then it simply could have been to confirm that Martin didn’t have a second phone, and that the number they got was correct. In other words, low-yield investigation, not urgent, just covering all bases. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3376 "2012-04-08T14:36:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, but if they got the number from Martin’s dad, then it simply could have been to confirm that Martin didn’t have a second phone, and that the number they got was correct. In other words, low-yield investigation, not urgent, just covering all bases. Couldn’t they have just covered this base by calling his cell phone using the number provided by Martins dad? Why would they have needed to dial out on it? And surely if they were interested in covering all bases in a timely matter, they would have done this immediately after connecting with Martins family. Rather than waiting several days. Times is of the essence in any homicide investigation, and talking about how “not urgent” evidence like this is is silly. The point that triggered our current tangent is that a key witness was not contacted until weeks after the shooting. Her statement is now being questioned because it wasn’t taken sooner. Maybe if the cops had treated the phone with a bit more urgency, this wouldn’t be an issue, ya think? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3377 "2012-04-08T14:44:26Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So are we to conclude the call to 911 was to report an emergency in the evidence locker? I don’t know, but it seems like a rather large leap to conclude the Cops didn’t do anything with Martin’s phone until that 911 call. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3378 "2012-04-08T15:06:39Z")
It could be as simple as: (1) They got the number from Martin’s dad (2) Assumed it was the same phone (3) Got the phone call records back, said “Oh shit he was on the phone”. (4) Said, “are we sure it’s the same phone?” (5) Called 911 to check the number on the phone ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3379 "2012-04-08T15:19:31Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Those of who don’t find Zimmerman’s story believable should actually be encouraged by the actions of the lead investigator. The stupid phone be damned. It was, after all, Chief Lee and the original SA who put the kibosh on bringing charges. Going forward, it is going to be lead homicide detective Serinos work that is going to matter most to the special prosecutor’s investigation. Hopefully his work has been thorough. Chief Lee is ultimately responsible for any mistakes made early on, and none of that may matter at all. It appears that the judgement of the original SA was sound considering they still haven’t found probable cause for an arrest. This article explains why State Attorney may be reluctant to arrest the suspect if they don’t have enough evidence for a conviction. Because of speedy trial rules require them to go to trial in 175 days. [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-05/news/os-trayvon-martin-probable-cause-20120404\_1\_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-standards-arrest](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-05/news/os-trayvon-martin-probable-cause-20120404_1_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-standards-arrest) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3380 "2012-04-08T15:51:21Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Couldn’t they have just covered this base by calling his cell phone using the number provided by Martins dad? Why would they have needed to dial out on it? And surely if they were interested in covering all bases in a timely matter, they would have done this immediately after connecting with Martins family. Rather than waiting several days. Times is of the essence in any homicide investigation, and talking about how “not urgent” evidence like this is is silly. The point that triggered our current tangent is that a key witness was not contacted until weeks after the shooting. Her statement is now being questioned because it wasn’t taken sooner. Maybe if the cops had treated the phone with a bit more urgency, this wouldn’t be an issue, ya think? They did. After getting the phone number from Martin’s dad, they immediately requested the phone’s records. The delay was the phone company’s well-documented delay in responding to these requests, and the delaying getting a court order. IMHO. Maybe. Point as always: how are we to know otherwise? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=168) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=170)